We can't take the power out of the word because its power is contained in the intention of the speaker and his tone of voice, both of which we have no control over. We can use the word queer to refer to ourselves (I don't use it because of reason of its denotation), but that doesn't mean that Bubba J. Yahoo uses it the same way. He intends it as an insult and probably shouts it repeatedly while trying to beat the shit out of us. The word itself is not the hate crime, but it often accompanies the hate crime.
Has anyone seen or heard of this guy?
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jchris
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Probably time to admit you fucked up and just abandon this one Mr. Fish.
For what it's worth, I think that Max definitely belongs to those on the fringe in porn, it all started back in the seventies with Al Parker. Those that are really into the bizarre and twisted sort of stuff: overpumped cocks, lots of cockrings, multiple genital piercings, etc. It definitely has its following just not my cup of tea.
For what it's worth, I think that Max definitely belongs to those on the fringe in porn, it all started back in the seventies with Al Parker. Those that are really into the bizarre and twisted sort of stuff: overpumped cocks, lots of cockrings, multiple genital piercings, etc. It definitely has its following just not my cup of tea.
I ALREADY DID! What I would like to know NOW is what those persons who
have ACTUALLY met this guy can say about him??
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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Nov 29 2004, 11:20 PM
There was a song out in the 80's called The Real Men (I wish I remember who sang it, but I was just a Spanish-speaking toddler in those days). In that song were the lyrics, "Don't call me 'faggot' unless you are my friend" ... and that's the way I feel. I'm not especially sensitive, but if someone, especially someone I don't know, refers to me as 'fag', 'faggot', 'queer', 'pillow-biter', etc., he will be faced with one pissed off Cuban 'ass pirate' (I like that term; it sounds rather dashing!. As a gay man, I would not suggest that the general public adopt such words; I might take offense. They were terms given without love, and that's the way they are still, for the most part, used.
[post=265300]Quoted post[/post]
Just started reading this thread. For the record I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. Some one said that each of us have a right to use words as we see fit. That may be true from a legal standpoint as in freedom of speech. But then the rest of us have a right to form opinions of that person based on what that person says. And the rest of us can choose not to associate with people who use words in a manner that is designed to demean a whole class of people
And the meaning of a word is also based on intent of the speaker as well. As smart, articulate and caring as you are, you especially don't deserve any "hate" shots.
As far as I am concerned spewing hate only destroys the character of the person doing the spewing of their hatred of others.
Freddie
From what I have read the term fag, as we know, is a bundle of sticks. Nazis used to tie up homosexuals and burn them, like firewood, they then started calling them "fags" as they would use them like a bundle of sticks to start a fire. Not a good term to be throwing around in my opinion, but I also agree that someone should have the right to say it if they want, no one has ever angered me by calling me a whtie boy in a derogatory sense, I don't know why anyone else would be offended by being called a "fag" or "niggger." Just my opinion, though.
If you have read this, your sources are confused about dates. Faggots, or fagots, not fags, are bundles of sticks. Any dictionary will tell you that the use of fag or faggot came into use in print long before the Nazis, and was probably in spoken use even earlier. For example, Webster's 9th Collegiate puts the homosexaul use of faggot in print at 1914, and the same definition of fag in print at 1931. (Some other references will put the homosexual definition of fag at an earlier date then faggot). The Nazi party's rise to power was in the 1930's; Hitler took office in 1933. Therefore, the actions of the Nazis can hardly be responsible for coining a term that was in common, written use before they even existed.
An earlier post in this thread describes one commonly accepted origin of the homosexual meanings of fag and faggot. To summarize, in English boy's boarding schools, underclassmen were required to work as personal servants to upperclassmen. The word fag originally meant to frayed end of someting, or to become worn out from hard work, dating to about 1770. The younger boys that acted servants were called fags, because they were worked hard. This use of the word dates to about 1780. It is not too difficult to understand how a term for one young man in personal service to another man began to become a term to refer to men with a homosexual relationship. In this theory, fag comes first, and faggot later by association, perhaps aided by the Yidish faygele.
Some authorities give a different origin, which I do not believe. They say the homosexual meaning of fag is shortened from faggot, but then fail to give a plausible way that faggot came to mean homosexual, which is why I discount theory over the schoolboy one. For example, one of my dictionaries says "...homosexual as in awkward to carry, as in fagots (bundles of sticks) on the back." What they are getting at is that a man married to a bitch old woman has a wife that is awkward and unpleasant to carry. For a while such a nasty old woman was known as a faggot, and hence a homosexual man became known as a faggot. If this is true, I guess nasty queens and trolls have been with us for a long time! Somehow, I would like to belive that even a disparaging term for being gay came from the activeities of virile young men, rather than bitchy old queeens, and put my faith in the schoolboy theory above.
- jonb,
From Etymonline:
faggot (2)
"male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1591), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It was used in this sense in 20c. by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in Brit. public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This was also used as a verb.
"He [the prefect] used to fag me to blow the chapel organ for him." ["Boy's Own Paper," 1889]
Other obsolete senses of faggot were "man hired into military service simply to fill out the ranks at muster" (1700) and "vote manufactured for party purposes" (1817). The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend. Burning was sometimes a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method proscribed. Any use of faggot in connection with public executions had long become an English historical obscurity by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (and the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use.
faggot (2)
"male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1591), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It was used in this sense in 20c. by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in Brit. public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This was also used as a verb.
"He [the prefect] used to fag me to blow the chapel organ for him." ["Boy's Own Paper," 1889]
Other obsolete senses of faggot were "man hired into military service simply to fill out the ranks at muster" (1700) and "vote manufactured for party purposes" (1817). The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend. Burning was sometimes a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method proscribed. Any use of faggot in connection with public executions had long become an English historical obscurity by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (and the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use.
LET THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY!!!!!
I AM SORRY I USED THE WORD FAG!!!!
OK??
GET BACK ON TOPIC!!!
JFC!!
I AM SORRY I USED THE WORD FAG!!!!
OK??
GET BACK ON TOPIC!!!
JFC!!
I find it easier not to use any of those terms at all, ever. They are not in my vocabulary nor in that of my children. You never know who may overhear you saying words like those. There will never be a second chance to make a first impression.
Herble:
My point exactly.
* Stabbs and slices up the thread * Kill Kill Kill die die die "Hmm its not bleeding? Oh well It needs to die anyway *triggers a nuke*
My point exactly.
[post=267115]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]* Stabbs and slices up the thread * Kill Kill Kill die die die "Hmm its not bleeding? Oh well It needs to die anyway *triggers a nuke*
ashlar
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Originally posted by Herble@Dec 13 2004, 09:53 AM
* Stabbs and slices up the thread * Kill Kill Kill die die die "Hmm its not bleeding? Oh well It needs to die anyway *triggers a nuke*
[post=267116]Quoted post[/post]
Damn. It's getting hostile in here.
*gives everyone some kool aid to calm their hormones*
Originally posted by ashlar+Dec 13 2004, 03:01 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ashlar @ Dec 13 2004, 03:01 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Herble@Dec 13 2004, 09:53 AM
* Stabbs and slices up the thread *Â Kill Kill Kill die die die "Hmm its not bleeding? Oh well It needs to die anyway *triggers a nuke*
[post=267116]Quoted post[/post]
Damn. It's getting hostile in here.
*gives everyone some kool aid to calm their hormones*
[post=267117]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Where you're concerned, I can think of more pleasant ways to calm my hormones, ashlar. But, then, my hormones are centralized and not all-over-the-place. Let me listen to your playing the violin for starters, ok?
ashlar
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Where you're concerned, I can think of more pleasant ways to calm my hormones, ashlar. But, then, my hormones are centralized and not all-over-the-place. Let me listen to your playing the violin for starters, ok?
[post=267155]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]If your really quiet and don't make me nervous ... sure. I might even sound good.
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