Has Gay Male Culture Become Anti-Masculine?

[deleted518773]

I thin k all cultures develop. Someday the gay culture may go abck to the way it was. Styles change.

 

[maxcok]

What the hell is "gay culture" and who defines it anyhow?

 

[cocktaste]

American media is anti-masculine*, so it is no surprise they trot out the more femme type of men.

Oh, please.

 

[B_bxmuscle]

Many thanx to all those who replied both here and via private messages. I anticipated the indignation evident in some postings, but have been surprised and pleased by how few they were, and by how many more respondents agreed with at least parts of my statement and analysis, and have help me clarify some of the issues I've been thinking about.


As one poster indicated, by "the public face of gay culture" I meant specifically urban enclaves like Chelsea, the Castro, Dupont Circle, West Hollywood et al. After all, when did anything on "Will and Grace" and the so-called reality shows on Bravo ever depict anything outside of that?? Everyone knows perfectly well that this only a minority of all men who are into men. I would nonetheless suggest that its particular demographic, and political agendas (gay marriage for instance), is indeed hegemonic in defining how what "gay culture" is and how it operates -- an issue I'd like to raise in another thread.

Thanx again to all.

 

[Mal_the_Wolf]

So many smart ass comments come to mind.....

But how about an honest question, why is being gay something so major in your life you feel like you must define yourself by it? Tyler perry is very much a gay man, but for what ever reason he keeps it to himself...... On the flip side john waters and richard simmons are 2 established icons of gay culture, how do you know they're gay? My question is, I know "straight culture" is everywhere and I tottally agree, but why is it such a simple thing as who shares your bed such a part of you it merits allegiance to a damn CULTURE?

If I'm off then I apologize, but as far as my mind and heart are concerned I don't see my gay friend paul the queen....... I just see paul

 

[B_curiousme01]

I asked something like this before about gay ladies and got slammed for it, but many gay women DO like to look like men. I have learned that it is just a preference and sometimes a way to say "THIS IS WHO I AM AND I AM PROUD OF IT." I think there are many gay men who don't look "gay" and woman too. Again, a preference for what you like in someone and yourself. Plus, I think gay people have had a rough road with society and things are finally opening up in the West and people more are comfortable being who they really are...bi people too.

 

[bigballs7x6]

As a young gay man living in the NYC area, I can honestly say, yes, there has definately been a shift in favor away from the "masculine men" to the "skinny white twink." Personally, it makes me very unhappy. If I wanted to go out with someone who was a bitchy queen that only talked about clothes, lady gaga and the people they hate, then I'd suck it up and go out with a girl.

Personally, I'm a working class kid. I like punk rock, and my fashion sense reflects that. I don't pretend to be tough, or "str8-acting" I just behave that way by default. And it seems to me that no one wants that anymore. Everyone in the scene wants some skinny hairless guy with a deep v shirt.

I've also noticed that there isn't much communication among the gay scene. At bars or clubs, people tend to avoid one another. They hang out with their friends, and don't really mingle. It seems like every time I go out, there are quite a few guys just hanging out alone, feeling awkward. There's no sense of solidarity, although I could be wrong. A few weeks ago, with that gay bashing attack at the Stonewall Inn, the people in the bar got organized fast and chased down the two jerks.

So I don't know what to say, it seems like my generation just can't win. Nothing we do pleases the older generations. But things might change soon. I used to go to places like The Ritz and Pieces with my leather and a mohawk in the past few years. It made me an instant pariah, which suprised me, since I figured a group of artisticly inclined people would appreciate something different. I stopped with the hair, but it seems other guys have picked it up.

 

[cocktaste]

So many smart ass comments come to mind.....

But how about an honest question, why is being gay something so major in your life you feel like you must define yourself by it? Tyler perry is very much a gay man, but for what ever reason he keeps it to himself...... On the flip side john waters and richard simmons are 2 established icons of gay culture, how do you know they're gay? My question is, I know "straight culture" is everywhere and I tottally agree, but why is it such a simple thing as who shares your bed such a part of you it merits allegiance to a damn CULTURE?

If I'm off then I apologize, but as far as my mind and heart are concerned I don't see my gay friend paul the queen....... I just see paul

If you're black, or hispanic, why must you define yourself by it? If you're female or male, why must you define yourself by it? Society defines it for you. It's that simple. All people want to be accepted on some level, and they do like to be around people who they can relate to. Sex, relationships, etc., are just a fact of life. Do you really think that gay men are going to make sexual remarks about another guy to a straight man? No. And it isn't as simple as "who shares your bed". What an ignorant statement. You are born gay. It's not something you choose. There's more to it than just sex. There's a difference in the wiring. There is a "gay culture", just like every other culture. We actually bring something unique to the table. Our outlook, a lot of time, has similarities. Our experiences: coming out to family, dealing with religious nuts, politics, same-sex families, love, sex, etc., etc., have shaped our world view. There is a "gay history". We are linked to it whether we like it or not.

Discrimination is always going to be around, and gays and lesbians are easy targets. That's another reason why gays and lesbians hang around with other gays and lesbians. Unless you're gay, you really cannot understand it fully. I'm not trying to beat up on you. I know you didn't question this with malicious intent.

 

[cocktaste]

I asked something like this before about gay ladies and got slammed for it, but many gay women DO like to look like men. I have learned that it is just a preference and sometimes a way to say "THIS IS WHO I AM AND I AM PROUD OF IT." I think there are many gay men who don't look "gay" and woman too. Again, a preference for what you like in someone and yourself. Plus, I think gay people have had a rough road with society and things are finally opening up in the West and people more are comfortable being who they really are...bi people too.

You're exactly right. Society defines what's okay, and what's not okay in respect to your gender. If you're gay or lesbian, you're automatically not going to fit into that mold. Children begin to shy away from the group that they're "meant" to emulate. This is why you find gay boys being closer to women, and gay girls closer to the men. They can't relate to their own gender which comes with specific rules, which includes appearance. Girls, a lot of times, dress in a certain way to attract other males. Lesbians, overwhelmingly, don't want to attract that sort of attention.

I would like to say that this isn't true of everybody. But if we're talking about stereotypes, this is the reason why they were created, and are based somewhat in reality.

 

[cocktaste]

I would like to ask: what defines "masculinity" for you?

IMHO, masculinity has changed dramatically over time. In history, men were wearing wigs, and makeup. In Scotland, they wear kilts, and in some Europeans countries, even dresses. What was once defined as "masculine" at one point in time, can and does change.