Has the countdown for the

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185248

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west to become involved, again, if it ever stopped. In the troubles of the Middle East again? The Iraqi government does not seem to be able to control it's internal affairs, Syrian problems, Israeli incursions to supposedly and maybe with reason to protect itself etc, etc, etcetera. :pat:

10....9....8

I was so looking forward to the upcoming NASA space flight using the runway take-off and the future of mankind....:)

Is it possible to build a big fence? :)
 
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malakos

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We would be better off if we actually conquered these degenerate regions we invade instead of grasping at the near impossible delusion of spreading "democracy".

Even better would be if we didn't invade in the first place.
 
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The fallout from Operation Iraqi Freedom is still unwinding
 

vince

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Degenerate? If that is your attitude to foreign peoples and cultures, then I suggest that you keep out of the debate, and stick to your Greek name.
Maybe the aforementioned fence would serve to keep them bottled up and prevent them invading the rest of us in the name of their security.
 

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We would be better off if we actually conquered these degenerate regions we invade instead of grasping at the near impossible delusion of spreading "democracy".

Even better would be if we didn't invade in the first place.


"Degenerate" is a bigoted and wholesale condemnation of other people's culture, religion, and way of life.

However I'd have to agree with the idea of staying out of their business, in as much as we are inevitably made out to be the VILLAIN, regardless.
 

B_underguy1

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Maybe the aforementioned fence would serve to keep them bottled up and prevent them invading the rest of us in the name of their security.

Huh?

EDIT On second reading, I guess that is sarcasm.
 
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dandelion

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Interestingly today a program was discussing the vexed question of just how many people were killed in the invasion of Iraq. The official government tally is about 100,000 killed by direct violence. Other estimates, including people who died from causes additional to direct violence range from 200,0000 to 1,000,000. A reasonable accepted number seems to now be around 4-500,000.

But a most interesting corollary to this seems to be that the birth rate has surged and the total population is now up something like 8 million on what it was.

So if the US cares to invade again in 20 years time, there will be 10 million extra Iraqis ready to send them home again. I doubt they will be thanking the US for the chaos it caused.
 

Jason

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... question of just how many people were killed in the invasion of Iraq.

It is shocking that we don't know.

The USA had a legal basis for the second Iraq war. By contrast the UK did not, because our legal basis for war is different. It is desperately hard to escape the view that the UK went to war on a "sexes up" - basically invented - dossier. And the extension is that the prime minister of the day and the cabinet are all war criminals.

The UK - and USA and others - could find money to bomb Iraq but couldn't subsequently find even tiny sums for the reconstruction of society. We did not fund education, health, civil service, administrative structures, lots more.

IMO we bear some responsibility to the mess which now exists, and for the enormous loss of life.
 

B_underguy1

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Interestingly today a program was discussing the vexed question of just how many people were killed in the invasion of Iraq. The official government tally is about 100,000 killed by direct violence. Other estimates, including people who died from causes additional to direct violence range from 200,0000 to 1,000,000. A reasonable accepted number seems to now be around 4-500,000.

But a most interesting corollary to this seems to be that the birth rate has surged and the total population is now up something like 8 million on what it was.

So if the US cares to invade again in 20 years time, there will be 10 million extra Iraqis ready to send them home again. I doubt they will be thanking the US for the chaos it caused.

What? That isn't credible.

The only peer reviewed authoritative studies show that over a million Iraqis died from war related violence between 2003 and 2011.

Well over a million died unnecessarily under the genocidal Anglo-US sanctions regime in the 90s.

Hundreds of thousands died in the proxy war with Iran and then tens of thousands died in the manufactured war with Kuwait and the aftermath when the US kept Saddam in power.

It is a genocide by any credible definition.
 

Jason

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Doesn't it mean "masturbator"? How appropriate...

One of the first modern Greek words I learnt. The taxi driver on the road from the airport had the window wound down to facilitate his rude hand gestures, all accompanied by the friendly greeting to drivers "malakas!" (or however it's spelt).
 

B_underguy1

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Interestingly today a program was discussing the vexed question of just how many people were killed in the invasion of Iraq. The official government tally is about 100,000 killed by direct violence. Other estimates, including people who died from causes additional to direct violence range from 200,0000 to 1,000,000. A reasonable accepted number seems to now be around 4-500,000.

But a most interesting corollary to this seems to be that the birth rate has surged and the total population is now up something like 8 million on what it was.

So if the US cares to invade again in 20 years time, there will be 10 million extra Iraqis ready to send them home again. I doubt they will be thanking the US for the chaos it caused.


The American Legacy in Iraq
 
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Interestingly today a program was discussing the vexed question of just how many people were killed in the invasion of Iraq. The official government tally is about 100,000 killed by direct violence. Other estimates, including people who died from causes additional to direct violence range from 200,0000 to 1,000,000. A reasonable accepted number seems to now be around 4-500,000.

But a most interesting corollary to this seems to be that the birth rate has surged and the total population is now up something like 8 million on what it was.

So if the US cares to invade again in 20 years time, there will be 10 million extra Iraqis ready to send them home again. I doubt they will be thanking the US for the chaos it caused.

One, of the reasons why we went there was because one group were abusing others. One group held the upper hand, it's always been a region of generational, tribal and religious problems. Answers won't come from the west.

Off-course, there were other obvious reasons as well, does the west really want stability in the region to happen though?

How long have we been trying? Each time we try we make new friends.....and enemies. If the US does invade in twenty years, it had best be in a better financial position first me thinks.
 
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B_underguy1

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One, of the reasons why we went there was because one group were abusing others. One group held the upper hand, it's always been a region of generational, tribal and religious problems. Answers won't come from the west.

Off-course, there were other obvious reasons as well, does the west really want stability in the region to happen though?

How long have we been trying? Each time we try we make new friends.....and enemies. If the US does invade in twenty years, it had best be in a better financial position first me thinks.

No it wasn't. The stated reasons were 'WMD's' and links to Al Qaeda and 9/11.

All of which were false. And stability is definitely not the empire's goal. A century of destabilisation by the west proves that false. They precipitated the civil war in Iraq by design.

The middle east has NOT always been a battle zone. Wahabbism and Zionism are western inventions.
 

malakos

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Degenerate? If that is your attitude to foreign peoples and cultures, then I suggest that you keep out of the debate, and stick to your Greek name.

What you said makes absolutely no sense. You recognize I have an appreciation for Greek culture but beforehand make a generalization about having a negative attitude towards foreign peoples and cultures.
 

malakos

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"Degenerate" is a bigoted and wholesale condemnation of other people's culture, religion, and way of life.

I never said anything that suggested such a generalization and contextually it makes most sense to interpret my statement to refer to unstable countries in the Middle East.