Hate Crimes Bill Protecting Sexual Orientation Finally Gonna Pass

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Well, looks like we're finally going to get our sexual orientation hate crimes legislation passed.


    The only bum thing is, they're attaching it onto a $680 billion defense bill (this trick is always used to give certain congresspersons and certain legislation "cover" -- because, presumably, hate crimes expansion can't pass on its own).

    At any rate. Gay issue is being "back-doored". The House passed the defense bill (with hate crimes rider -- with 15 dems, 131 repubs opposing), passage in the senate seems assured, and Obama will sign.


    This was Edward Kennedy's legislation. Also known as the Matthew Sheppard bill.


    House extends hate crime law to cover gays - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com
     
  2. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I wish I could say I didn't care how it got done, but I do. It's so cowardly. Still, I'm glad it will go into effect.
     
  3. b.c.

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    In an ideal world (or at least in one with a little more "balls") the issue should have passed on it's own. But a "means" to much overdue "end", my friend.

    The result will be the passage of legislation that didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell under the Bush administration and a Republican led Congress.

    And still, in it's present form hardly any Republican backing. An "ugly" win, but a win nevertheless.
     
  4. 3664shaken

    3664shaken New Member

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    Sad, truly sad.

    Making thoughts more culpable and punishable than actual crimes, Each day we march closer to an Orwellian world and people are unapologetically and unthinkingly cheering it on.

    Wow.
     
  5. SilverTrain

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    Yeah, what were they thinking, hundreds of years ago, when they drafted all those criminal laws that made thought an aspect of crime?

    Take the thought out of it, and just make pure action criminally objectionable, without any regard to the thought behind it. We could get rid of torts altogether. Poof, no more personal injury!

    Hey, you may go to prison for inadvertent speeding, but shoot, a small price to pay for keeping thought out of the criminal code.....



    Christ
     
  6. 3664shaken

    3664shaken New Member

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    It would be most helpful if you

    #1 Read my post
    #2 Tried to comprehend what I wrote
    #3 Not respond in a knee-jerk reaction so throughly missing the point one must wonder if you dot a concussion when your knee hit your head.

    We will try this again and very slowly for those with learning disabilities

    "Making thoughts more culpable and punishable than actual crimes"

    Here is an example, I come home late one evening and bmack my car into a parking place, I don't notice a man and I run over him, killing him. If the man happens to be a straight heterosexual guy I might be charged with vehicular manslaughter. But now imagine that the man was a homosexual, the over zealous DA finds my posts here on LPSG and labels me a homophobic, they show that the man moved near me and I might have known he was gay. So I get charged under the hate crime legislation.

    Although I did not know the man or even know he was gay evidence was presented that I could have known, federal prosecutors are brought in to help the state's case and my meager state appointed attorney is out-gunned. I am now charges with homicide and additionally with a hate crime. What should have been a minimum sentence even pleaded out as probation is now going to be a 20+ year term.

    My actual frame of mind becomes irrelevant instead it is my potential thoughts that have made me "more culpable and punishable than (the) actual crime"

    Now everyone who falls into the protected "hate crime" category will get more vengeance under the law than those who happen to be non-hate-able.

    While the ideals of MLK, living in a color blind society are noble, we cannot force people to think that way. But when our justice system, which should be the most neutral of all not judging or handing out sentences based on race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, etc openly embraces a system that deems one group is worthy of more protection than another it's hard to argue that we should all be considered equal.

    Ironically it is the left that like to complain about inequality of people who is all too happy to place us in little groups and then hand out certain privileges to some groups and not to others.

    MLK's I have a dream is my ideal - too bad more people won't join in.
     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    I don't know a thing about your post history except the two I've just read but based on them, wow. You're a snarky, paranoid (and possibly bigoted) little thing.
     
    #7 B_Nick8, Oct 10, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  8. DiscoBoy

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    This is why women shouldn't drive.:rolleyes::wink:
     
  9. HazelGod

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    I agree wholeheartedly. Categorized hate crime legislation is beyond stupid.
     
  10. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I'll catch shit for it but I agree. Crime of thought is beyond frightening.

    I am also against laws such as we have in New York that reserve first degree murder for law enforcement personnel. No one person's life is any more valuable than another's if we are to all be equal before the law as the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees.
     
  11. 3664shaken

    3664shaken New Member

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    It was a man, so no big loss. :wink:
     
  12. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    most emphatically agree

    oh my! here we go again! anyone who deviates from the little red book ...

    yes!
     
  13. b.c.

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    The republican argument that this is "thought legislation" is a bogus one. It is legislation aimed at protecting actual victims of hate crimes, not victims by "thought".

    So, one is still free to imagine kicking the shit out of any minority your heart desires. Just means there is one more minority under greater protection of law, should you decide to actually go out and do it.
     
  14. b.c.

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    In your scenario it still would be the court's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt your intent to do the man bodily harm, and I would think that'd necessitate more evidence than merely your posts in a forum.

    It has nothing at all to do with making thought more culpable and punishable than actual crime. Intent has always been a factor in law.
     
  15. HazelGod

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    How is that any different a crime than kicking the shit out of a white male?

    It doesn't matter where the victim falls demographically...kicking the shit out of another human being is a crime. End of story. With the exception of self-defense, the reason for doing it is irrelevant.
     
  16. Bbucko

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    Indeed. Why have First Degree Murder charges when the man's dead anyways? We have been punishing some motives with extra severity since before the revolution.
     
  17. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I don't see it making thoughts 'more' culpable and punishable, actions speak louder than words after all, what i think it would do is make people think twice about what they say and thus who they influence, this addition could be a great benefit for the gay community because it should quieten the voices of those who rant about how wrong it is.
    How sorry you would have to feel for a child (gay) growing up amongst the Phelps family hearing incessantly how much of an abomination homosexuality is. It's about time that positive action was taken to effectively say 'right, you think it is wrong but let your kids make up their own mind on the issue'.
     
  18. b.c.

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    It isn't. That would be a hate crime too, if proven as such.
     
  19. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    there is no way around it -- hate crimes legislation is simply an attempt to regulate thought and feeling

    see, for example:


    Canada

    Canada is believed to have more hate crime legislation forbidding certain ideas from being promulgated than any other country in the world.[11]

    Hate crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  20. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    even worse, they create divisive categories among us

    so we go back to status in society

    so, effectively, and in reality, the left has finished destroying the Revolution that brought forth the nation -- the ideal of the value of the individual, and individual rights ... and freedom of thought

    Hate crimes: criminal law & identity ... - Google Books
     
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