have the fucking kid and then tidy your damn room

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Dr Rock, Apr 30, 2005.

  1. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    A pregnant 13-year-old girl in Florida has been told she cannot have an abortion because she lacks the maturity to make such a decision..

    Florida's department of children and families intervened and took the matter to court, arguing the teenager, who is under the care of the state, is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision.


    "department of children and families" huh? nice work you senile shitcrickets. I'm sure the children and families in this case are REALLY gonna thank you for that.

    I'm gonna go get stoned out in the woods and pretend the human species never evolved
     
  2. Imported

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    hung_big: That is so cruel and unjust.

    You go have fun getting stoned Rock. If I wasn't sick I would most likely join you, but hey, what can you do?

    I think she should be able to have an abortion, but I have to agree that she is most likely immature. If she is getting pregnant at 13, I doubt she has much upstairs. Mind you, that still does not excuse the judge's decision.
     
  3. Nienna

    Nienna New Member

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    1) I have to admit that at 13 she is not responsible and should not be forced to have a child she doesn't want.

    2) But at the same time I think abortion is disgusting and would rather see her give it up for adoption.

    No one person can righfully decide the fate of another.
     
  4. Imported

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    carolinacurious: "2) But at the same time I think abortion is disgusting"

    KEEE-RIST! Not AGAIN!

    Do you normally bathe in pigs blood before swimming in shark infested waters?
     
  5. Pappy

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    What are the specifics of the pregnancy?? Was it a result of incest or rape?? Or was the sex consensual with a boy her age?? If it was incest or rape then the abortion should be granted, but if it was a consensual then she should have to pay the price for playing. And yes the father of the child should be held accountable for his actions too. Yes boys and girls at that age DO KNOW the consequences of having sex.

    This is just another example of the teaching abstinance VS. teaching contraception aproach to birth control.
     
  6. Imported

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    carolinacurious: Crap, crap crap....

    "The judge's ruling comes in spite of Florida state law which specifically does not require a minor to seek parental consent before an abortion."

    Not based in law....

    "pay the price"

    Having a baby is a wonderous moment of joy and goodness AND PUNISHMENT!?
     
  7. Nienna

    Nienna New Member

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    Well, that is my opinion. After haveing two children I cannot fathom how a person could have abortion. I understand if it was incest or rape.I couldn't expect a woman to carry that burden with her for the rest of her life.

    But at 13 you had better know that actions have consequences, and killing
    an innocent child (fetal heartbeat starts at 22 days After conception BTW), is unfair to the life of that child. It did not ask to be created an placed in her womb, but it is there noneltheless. And that in itself gives that child,unborn as it is, the right to have a life. If she doesn't want to raise it, fine give it to someone who wants it. There are alternatives to abortion.
     
  8. Pappy

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    carolinacurious you stated your opinion and I stated mine, I DID NOT however call your opinion crap. I'd expect the same courtesy from an adult. We disagree, leave it at that.
     
  9. Imported

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    carolinacurious: "carolinacurious you stated your opinion and I stated mine, I DID NOT however call your opinion crap. I'd expect the same courtesy from an adult. We disagree, leave it at that."

    I'm sorry that it came across that way. The "crap, crap, crap" was my muttering to myself that I'm allowing myself to be drawn in to this again. No insult intended.
     
  10. Pappy

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    CC, I sent you an e-mail.
     
  11. Imported

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    carolinacurious: "CC, I sent you an e-mail."

    Thanks for understanding. To everyone else here I really did not mean for it to come out like that and I can see how it did.

    <flees from thread>
     
  12. mindseye

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    Yikes. So you&#39;d force a human being into the world with a mother who&#39;s too young to know how to care for it, just to teach said mother a lesson?

    Be grateful that you weren&#39;t somebody&#39;s lesson. I believe there are more humane ways of meting out discipline than what you&#39;ve suggested.

    Anyway, Florida&#39;s constitution is pretty clear on the matter. Article I, Section 23 reads,

    There&#39;s no age limit on the right to privacy, so the government can&#39;t intrude on her right to termination. However, Florida has the means to tie the case up until the woman is in her third trimester, effectively winning their case through brute force.
     
  13. KinkGuy

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    Typical neo-con philosophy: love the fetus, hate the child.
     
  14. Imported

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    ravenously: Did anyone stop to think about the quality of life for both mother and child?
    And let us not forget that "inocent" babies grow up to be adults, and adults are at least in part shaped by they&#39;re surroundings as children.

    Also, earthworms have hartbeats. I don&#39;t see anybody crying over dead worms.
    At 22 days a fetus is only the potential for new life. It doesn&#39;t even have a brain to percieve thoughts and emotions w/.

    But your all right, this dirty little tramp should be punished. I say we make her dropout of school and raise an illiterate redneck child in poverty. And, lets get that boy too. That&#39;ll teach them for having evil, evil dirty sex. ( if you can&#39;t detect the sarcasim in the last three statements, then I think your parents should of aborted you)
     
  15. madame_zora

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    The article doesn&#39;t say much about whether the preganacy resulted from incest or rape, but if a 13 year old can&#39;t consent to abortion, I don&#39;t see how she could consent to sex in the first place. Nevermind the fact that most boys her age couldn&#39;t impregnate her, so it almost had to be someone older. Yeah, let&#39;s make the dirty little whore pay (and pay and pay). Who here thinks a 13 year old girl&#39;s body can sufficiently sustain a pregnacy without suffering damage? We don&#39;t even breed dogs before they&#39;re old enough to be healthy, but why should a young girl deserve as much concern as a dog?

    Consentual or not, this sexual experience HAS to have been quite a lot of such a young girl to deal with, we have no way of knowing the implications to her life. I think it&#39;s horrible that our government stepped in to torture her further.
     
  16. taven

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    If you want to add to the stupidity, a judge in Washington wouldn&#39;t allow a woman to divorce a truly gruesome husband because she was pregnant. ( I can&#39;t remember all the details, but do remember I was outraged at his ruling. I think a higher court finally overuled the decision.) Government frequently gets too involved with trying to micromanage people&#39;s personal lives. (I&#39;m trying to be nice about it.)
     
  17. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    sorry, "pay the price" for what exactly? having sex?? if we&#39;re gonna punish people for that, then you&#39;d better get a SWAT team over to my house right now, because that makes me fucking Public Enemy #1.

    and I&#39;m not gonna waste time replying specifically to the anti-abortion posts; I&#39;m just gonna advise that you jokers open your eyes, take a good look at the world around you, and make some effort to retrieve your brains from the 14th century. observe, for example, the pleasant lack of epidemic plague in the past hundred years or so, and the rather less sanguinary overpopulation of the planet. right now we need FEWER births, not more - and we sure as hell don&#39;t need more 13 year-old parents.
     
  18. Nienna

    Nienna New Member

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    I didn&#39;t hear anyone say she should keep the child? She could give it up for adoption. Or her parents or other family members could help her. There are many ways to raise an unexpected pregnancy.
    Secondly How do you know what a fetus can and cannot feel? It has been proven that fetus&#39; can feel pain ( by 8 Weeks) and they also react to stress/pain of the mother.
    By this age the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt.

    Example.

    Try sticking an infant with a pin and you know what happens. She opens her mouth to cry and also pulls away.

    Try sticking an 8 week old human fetus in the palm of his hand. He opens his mouth and pulls his hand away.

    A more technical description would add that changes in heart rate and fetal movement also suggest that intrauterine manipulations are painful to the fetus.

    Volman & Pearson, "What the Fetus Feels," British Med. Journal, Jan. 26, 1980, pp. 233-234.



    <!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora
    @Apr 30 2005, 04:42 PM
    The article doesn&#39;t say much about whether the preganacy resulted from incest or rape, but if a 13 year old can&#39;t consent to abortion, I don&#39;t see how she could consent to sex in the first place. Nevermind the fact that most boys her age couldn&#39;t impregnate her, so it almost had to be someone older. Yeah, let&#39;s make the dirty little whore pay (and pay and pay). Who here thinks a 13 year old girl&#39;s body can sufficiently sustain a pregnacy without suffering damage? We don&#39;t even breed dogs before they&#39;re old enough to be healthy, but why should a young girl deserve as much concern as a dog?

    Consentual or not, this sexual experience HAS to have been quite a lot of such a young girl to deal with, we have no way of knowing the implications to her life. I think it&#39;s horrible that our government stepped in to torture her further.
    [post=306681]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/quote]

    Madame Z did you ever stop and consider the implications of a 13 year old girl having an abortion? The procedure is anything BUT pleasant. Not to mention that alot of women who have abortions tend to have alot of problems afterwards, many can&#39;t even concieve or carry a pregnancy to term later in life. There is also the psychological aspect of knowing you killed your own child. She might not see it that way now, but later in life she could; and you can&#39;t bring back an aborted baby, but you can reunite with a child given up for adoption.
     
  19. madame_zora

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    There&#39;s not a sane medical professional alive that will tell you (from a physical standpoint) that having an abortion is more stressful to the body than carrying a child&#33;
    Sorry, the "rights" of a fetus don&#39;t exist in the real world, and neighter do the "rights" of a child. If you care about fetus&#39;s rights, you have to care about childrens&#39; for your philosophies to make sense. Also, philosophies must be grounded in reality to be relevant. If you say XY and Z ought to happen, but have every reason to believe it will in fact go another way, you are spouting wasted noise. What you are saying is that a fetus has more rights for consideration than the young girl who&#39;s already here, I ask you, why? Just because it&#39;s "unborn" does not make it holy&#33;

    Again, we don&#39;t know the circumstances of the conception, but since she&#39;s 13 and the father must be older, it leaves room for debate. If she can&#39;t consent to abortion, she can&#39;t consent to sex, you can&#39;t have it one way and not the other. If she can&#39;t consent to sex, she was raped- so you are suggesting that rape victims be forced to carry a child to term because the rights of a fetus created through horror supercede their own rights for the &#39;&#39;pursuit of happiness". Just some points to ponder.

    Then again, you could just consider her "damaged goods" and punish her for her ill doings by forcing her to bear the child, I know I&#39;d be thrilled to discover I came into the world in such a way, I feel guilty for my birth as it is. Maybe not everyone loves their Mother enough to care about what she went through, but I know I do.
     
  20. jonb

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    Most likely wasn&#39;t consensual. (I will point out I was shooting thick white stuff at age 11 or 12. But I&#39;m probably the exception.)

    And yes, Jana, pregnancy before around age 15 or 16 is dangerous. But fundies know jackshit about about the female anatomy, and they&#39;ve proven it repeatedly.
     
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