Have you ever been "Yank Bashed"?

dong20

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That's what I've been asking myself! This was not intended as a linguistic debate at all, just a simple question to learn if others had been rudely criticized on line for merely being American. The quoted dialogue was to illustrate that my English is NOT deficient!

My thanks to the few of you who addressed the issue directly.


A bonus and curse of LPSG is that threads often, or even generally take on a life and direction of their own!:smile:
 

dong20

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Well - you can see how the confusion arose.. I refer to myself as pedantic, you say it is an English trait - you have no location in your profile and I guess I haven't read enough of your posts to notice any overt Englishness - though it's fairly obvious here... (I'm mean that neutrally, as an observation - intended as neither complement nor insult)

As a generalisation.....yes.

Well I guess I know the UK a lot better than US / Aus but I would say the variations across the UK are too great to lump together, but then I think that is true of the US too - However, if you are talking about the grammar and spelling conventions they (attempt to) teach in school, and not about accents and colloquialisms, then you have a point.

yes, my use of British/American English was intended to address just that subject, what is taught in schools, used in the press, TV, cinema etc as a generic placeholder for a basic common means of communiction most English speakers share. Below that, if you will, are the hundreds, if not thousands of regional dialects used in day to day communication.
 

dong20

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Well - you can see how the confusion arose.. I refer to myself as pedantic, you say it is an English trait - you have no location in your profile and I guess I haven't read enough of your posts to notice any overt Englishness - though it's fairly obvious here... (I'm mean that neutrally, as an observation - intended as neither complement nor insult)

As a generalisation.....yes though in terms of confusion, well you also have no location in your profile and going to school in Dublin doesn't make one Irish. Though in fairness your (or my) nationality make no real difference to the validity of the statement as such. I was just a bit surprised by the Bold red type in response, as if you took it as an affront. It wasn't meant that way. It was, as I said primarily self deprecating. Also it was late at night and I was tired!!:smile:

Well I guess I know the UK a lot better than US / Aus but I would say the variations across the UK are too great to lump together, but then I think that is true of the US too - However, if you are talking about the grammar and spelling conventions they (attempt to) teach in school, and not about accents and colloquialisms, then you have a point.

Yes, my use of British/American English was intended to address just that; English as taught in schools, used in the press, TV, cinema etc as a generic placeholder for a basic common means of communiction most English speakers share. Below that, if you will, are the hundreds, if not thousands of regional and national dialects used in day to day communication.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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When someone says "British English" they are simply avoiding the ridiculousness of saying "English English" when referring to its country of origin.:rolleyes:

Reduplication (itself a little ridiculous sounding if you notice the redundancy of the term) is actually an acceptable thing in the English language, and is used to denote the standard or default form of something. Think about when someone asks if you want Diet Coke and you answer "no, I want Coke Coke."

What makes a language "native", that it develops in said country or that people learn it from birth? English sure didn't develop here, but we consider ourselves native speakers.

There is no universally accepted definition in the linguistic world of what a "native speaker" of a language is. Though I think the "native" in "native speaker" and also in "native language" are generally accepted to mean two different things.
 

ManlyBanisters

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As a generalisation.....yes though in terms of confusion, well you also have no location in your profile And since when is Europe not a location!? Loads of people here have USA as their location. and going to school in Dublin doesn't make one Irish. Though in fairness your (or my) nationality make no real difference to the validity of the statement as such. Well, I was discussing national attitude to language variations from nation to nation, and you were the one who associated pedantry with a nationality... but in priciple, I do agree I was just a bit surprised by the Bold red type in response, as if you took it as an affront. I think you'll find most Irish people take exception when they (think they) are being called English... can't think why.. :rolleyes: It wasn't meant that way. It was, as I said primarily self deprecating. Also it was late at night and I was tired!!:smile:

Hey, no worries - the misunderstanding was mine.. :smile:
 

B_Hickboy

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I'm British and I have trouble understanding some "Yank" words.
I think that we are lucky that English has become the International language because it is constantly evolving and becoming richer, Aussies, Yanks, Carribeans etc. are inventing new words all the time, it is impossible to know every slang English word in existence.
Many American phrases are used by Brits who speak proper English too, we aren't all like him.

That person sounds like a typical snob, putting people down to feel superior, there are fuckwits in every country!


Yeah, what he said...

English is evolving. It's a beautiful thing.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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But, I suppose it would make sense to just start calling it American, as that's where most of the speakers are.

This doesn't make any sense, and as others have pointed out it might not even be true. However, in Korea, they often do use "English" and "American" interchangeably. The form of English taught here is, of course, American English. Koreans are not learning English because of some colonial school system set up for them. Koreans want to learn English in order to be competetive and viable and full participators in a global economy and culture. The reason why English is relevant in this context is, of course, because of the United States of America. It's not England that is dominating the world today culturally, militarily, and economically. From this standpoint it does make sense to start calling English "American," and to think of English English as the quirky degenerate dialect.
 

Lordpendragon

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English is the whore of all languages - she will accomodate whatever you throw at her. That is why she is the greatest language in the world.

Twll din pob Sais. :eek: :biggrin1:
 

dong20

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English is the whore of all languages - she will accomodate whatever you throw at her. That is why she is the greatest language in the world...

and

... Enjoy it, I think it's the most versatile and flexible language on the planet.

Very different language but the exact same sentiment. The case rests.:smile:
 

Mattness

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Boy, have I been "Yank Bashed"!

My Ex is from England and I was attracted to him partially because of that and because I was a "Britphile" since I was a teen after Monty Python, Benny Hill and all the British Sitcoms hit the US.

Shortly after we started dating, he started the "that's not the proper spelling, that's not the proper word, that's not the proper phrase" shit with me and I constantly resisted him saying what you all are saying above: American English is a different beast than British English and since we were in the US and he chose to live here, wouldn't it be easier and more productive if HE learned OUR way of speaking, rather than trying to convert the entire US population over to HIS way? When in Rome...Do As The Romans Do, Right? He didn't like when I said things like that. In addition, I had a somewhat pronounced Philadelphia accent at that point and pronounced things a bit differently - especially when I was around my family.

When we went to visit his family in England later that year, I felt very insecure about myself and my nationality because of this constant battle between us. Also, I had never been overseas before and in addition to not knowing how things worked at Customs etc. (he just left me at the Customs line saying, "I'll meet you at Baggage Claim") I was afraid to speak to anyone thinking they'd hear that I wasn't English and they'd criticize the way I spoke just like he did all the time.

We were in London before visiting his family in Sudbury, Suffolk, he finally said to me, after I asked him to ask someone for something for the 1,700th time, "Is there a reason you're not speaking to anyone???". I told him that back home, he constantly corrected the way I spoke and told me that I spoke like a "commoner". I began to cry right there in the streets. He held me and promised he wouldn't do it again and encouraged me to speak to people to get over my fear.

So, in order to transition into it, I'd put on a fake/bad English accent and ask for my own damn Diet Coke! It wasn't until we were sitting at a show in the West End that a very nice older man interrupted us after overhearing me speaking and said, "Excuse me, but I hear from your accent that you're from The States, is that correct?". I told him I was and he proceeded to ask me about Broadway and Hollywood and we spoke for about 15 minutes and I became a Celebrity and had a lot to offer this man. My fears were gone!

When we got to my Ex's family's house, I had confidence and they all liked me (except his Mother) and they did the same thing - they asked me questions about growing up in the US, about my family, about living in New York City and about other American things. I was the first American that most of them had met, and even though my Ex was living in the US, I was "the real deal" and had a different perspective on it all, not just the perspective of a Brit living in the US there to criticize everything and every one because it's not British, which is what my Ex seemed to do every day.
 

MegaDick

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Thanks, Mattness, for such a "spot on" contribution. LOL The issue I raised is not of language but of civility, manners. I would never dream of correcting or criticizing someone's speech.

The larger question is "Why are some people so blatantly rude to others about the words they use when they are simply trying to communicate -- regardless of the language or country of origin?"
 

PokeSalad

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Who was being rude - there is nothing rude in what I said, or am I missing your point?:confused:


The original guy was complaining about some jerk criticizing his choice of words, and asked if this had happened to anybody else. Instead of answering the question, you picked out a word that the first jerk hadn't criticized, and started criticizing that one (American, you said should be American English!!

We call that "adding insult to injury" in this country.

If you don't consider that rude, I can't help you buddy. Then again, manners are still valued in the region I grew up in.
 

dong20

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The original guy was complaining about some jerk criticizing his choice of words, and asked if this had happened to anybody else. Instead of answering the question, you picked out a word that the first jerk hadn't criticized, and started criticizing that one (American, you said should be American English!!

We call that "adding insult to injury" in this country.

If you don't consider that rude, I can't help you buddy. Then again, manners are still valued in the region I grew up in.

:confused:

For the record I said:

Actually, he's wrong and the 'z' spelling is (with some exceptions) technically correct though it's rarely used in the UK except in high academia and formerly, in the Times newspaper. All he did was expose his ignorance. Soz is regional slang for sorry if you haven't found out yet; was he from the NW of England? That's where I've heard it most.

That's the bit where I agreed he was right and the other guy was wrong, I explained the meaning and background of the word he didn't know. I call that being being helpful, not rude.

BTW no such language as American per se, it's just English or perhaps American English, much the same as Australian English or any other derivation is; i.e. the same langauge just with many minor variations. Enjoy it, I think it's the most versatile and flexible language on the planet.

What word did I 'pick out' - American - are you serious? If you think the above paragraph was rude and insulting....stick around. Still, as a n00b you probably won't know that, just yet. :rolleyes:

Last time I checked American isn't a language, whereas (American) English is. In my country that's not a matter of being rude it's a matter of being correct. That aspect of the OP was about his spelling of words ('ize' v 'ise') not his choice of them. BTW, I'm not your buddy and when I need help, I'll ask.

Anyway, if I caused him offense which certainly wasn't my intention I'll apologise to him not his front man. Talk about a storm in a teacup.

Magadick - sorry for any unintentional offence.:smile:
 

B_big dirigible

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The reason why English is relevant in this context is, of course, because of the United States of America. It's not England that is dominating the world today culturally, militarily, and economically. From this standpoint it does make sense to start calling English "American," and to think of English English as the quirky degenerate dialect.
Yes indeed. Not the impression one might get from the supplements about English-language education sometimes bundled in with overseas editions of some English papers, such as (just to throw out a random example) my old favorite, the Guardian. They'd be horrified by the notion that the tail really isn't wagging the dog, and hasn't been since about WW1.

But it hardly seems worth whacking 'em upside their heads about, as the linguistic distinctions are really so trivial. If Americans were in the business of being deliberately annoying, the second and third stanzas of the national anthem would be performed regularly; they're suppressed solely in the interests of international amity. Oh, the sacrifices we make to promote the Concert of Nations.

Though I'm sometimes tempted to be a bit more assertive - nay, belligerent - when some British twit gets shirty about "Americanisms". (There: back on thread.)
 

Dorset

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Recently I was attempting to chat with a "Brit" who used a word I didn't understand -- soz.
Ha, they critisised you for not understanding Soz? That's funny because it's only really used by common little kids, it's just 'txt' speak. That probably explains why that had a go at you, they were just little trolls.

English is a blend of many languages from all over the world and has constantly evolved over time. In many ways US English is more correct. Many of my fellow Brits think that the US took the U out of colour but in fact it was us that added the U in there some time after you claimed independence from us.

I'm sorry but there are idiots in every country :mad:
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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Ha, they critisised you for not understanding Soz? That's funny because it's only really used by common little kids, it's just 'txt' speak. That probably explains why that had a go at you, they were just little trolls.


I've got a feeling he was just pulling your (the OP's) chain. Andy, a guy from Liverpool I work with here, sometimes corrects my "Americanisms." But he's not actually serious, he's just joshing with me, and I shoot right back at him.