Have you ever checked another straight friend on being homophobic?

[englad]

Experienced based thread, hopefully with an uplifting note.

So obviously I'm aware that this is generally getting rarer than it used to be, but from time to time you'll hear some (particularly younger) straight guys casually using homophobic slurs or engaging in banter that can get pretty ignorant.

I have personally seen cases like this in my own life (both before and after coming out) from straight friends, but just curious to hear your own experiences on the topic.

Either ignorant banter or straight up homophobia, doesn't particularly matter, also feel free to mention cases if it was a friend that you suspected might have actually been in denial about themselves. Also doesn't matter whether that was just amongst straight peers, or if a gay friend of yours was present.

If so, how did it go down and what was the context? If not and it happened, did you feel any guilt about it afterwards?

 

[Dport]

Last time I heard someone being homophobic was probly in high school, maybe college. I imagine I didn't say anything and I imagine I didn't feel guilty for not saying anything.

 

[englad]

Last time I heard someone being homophobic was probly in high school, maybe college. I imagine I didn't say anything and I imagine I didn't feel guilty for not saying anything.

How do you reckon you'd react now if you were in a similar situation, out of interest?

 

[Dport]

How do you reckon you'd react now if you were in a similar situation, out of interest?

If they were harassing someone in person I'd absolutely say something.

 

[WangDangDoodle]

Who cares what they think as long as they aren't hurting anyone else? They are entitled to their own opinions as long as they don't interfere with someone else's livelihood. Goes both ways. Gay guys have names for straight guys too.

 

[At.your.cervix]

Just like other bigoted comments, it depends.When a comment just shows one's ignorance, I usually just let it go with a little non-verbal expression of my disappointment in them. I try to be tolerant of everyone's perspectives within a certain range. But sometimes things are said about gays, women, blacks, Jews, etc. that are too hurtful/hateful to let go. In those situations, I typically start making racial or sexist comments where the homophobe/bigot is being ridiculed, which almost always solicits some sort of "that's not funny;" where I simply say "exactly."

 

[englad]

Who cares what they think as long as they aren't hurting anyone else?

Point being, these comments often are hurting other people. That's why I made the thread. I have personally been in situations where I've heard people putting on murder music in my prescence, and saying "gays should die", and I have seen far more intelligent, empathetic and honourable straight men than you, actually speak up about that shit.

They are entitled to their own opinions as long as they don't interfere with someone else's livelihood. Goes both ways. Gay guys have names for straight guys too.

Noone said anything about jobs, You clearly have 0 idea of what our life experiences are, if you would make a comment that clueless. You are on a site where the demographics are unusual, there are a shit load of a gay and bi guys on here, so there is no excuse whatsoever for that level of cluelessness.

As we are in a minority in terms of our sexuality, we have a shit load of different unpleasant life experiences that you would never have to face.

Can't remember the last time a straight guy was thrown out of his parent's house after coming out

Can't remember the last time a straight guy had to deal with being in the closet. Have you ever bothered to ask anyone who has been through that, what does that actually feel like?

Do you get people shouting shit at you offline regarding your sexuality?

Can't remember the last time a straight man was beaten up for his heterosexuality.

Do you get stupid and insensitive questions all the time OFFLINE regarding your sexuality?

Have you lost friends after they've found out about your sexuality?

Do not for a split second pretend that there is some sort of parity in those experiences. The ones I've just quoted all happened to either myself or other people I know, and there are a shitload more that I could mention. So pretending that there is parity in experiences as you just did, shows how little you know about other men's lives.

I've never heard of a gay man bringing up a heterophobic word in a serious context, and even in a joking context it was mild and I've heard it about once in my entire life. These sort of words just never get used and I'm only even familiar with one of them.

You try listening a bit and you will sound less like a hick. Also if you did listen a bit more, you would notice another interesting difference, one I'll happily share with you now.

The only men I have EVER met that couldn't string a sentence together in their own mother tongue were ALL straight (and to be honest there have been a fair few). I have NEVER met a gay man who reached anywhere near that level of inarticulation. So by listening to us, you might improve your abilities to express yourself too.

 

[englad]

Just like other bigoted comments, it depends.When a comment just shows one's ignorance, I usually just let it go with a little non-verbal expression of my disappointment in them. I try to be tolerant of everyone's perspectives within a certain range. But sometimes things are said about gays, women, blacks, Jews, etc. that are too hurtful/hateful to let go. In those situations, I typically start making racial or sexist comments where the homophobe/bigot is being ridiculed, which almost always solicits some sort of "that's not funny;" where I simply say "exactly."

That's an interesting take, I'm about the same on the other forms of bigotry too. Do you also get that sinking feeling when you find out someone you thought was fairly sound, turns out to be a bigot? I have had it before where you hear them say something very bigoted for the first time, and immediately boomph the sinking feeling regarding their character kicks in.

Here's an example from the UK sit com Peep Show, though the character has a way less direct approach:

 

[At.your.cervix]

That's an interesting take, I'm about the same on the other forms of bigotry too. Do you also get that sinking feeling when you find out someone you thought was fairly sound, turns out to be a bigot? I have had it before where you hear them say something very bigoted for the first time, and immediately boomph the sinking feeling regarding their character kicks in.[/MEDIA]

I think a certain amount of bigotry is the norm, worldwide. In almost every nation you will find disparaging characterizations of minorities and members of other nations. It happens with my gay and lesbian friends as well, as I've heard ignorant statements made about straight people, spoken in my presence, but always coupled with a somehow qualifying "oh, we don't mean you, of course." I believe it stems from what Martin Buber called "I" and "thou" thinking. When we build divisions between one another and separate ourselves along those lines we then begin to feel uneasy about those "others" potential actions and motivations. We can assume that those within our clan/group will act in a way which we understand, but once you are not included within that group, the rationale for all sorts of actions become unknown, and thus distrusted. Once we stop looking at each other as "them" and instead as "we," bigotry ends and empathy begins. It is what the human race needs to strive for, if we want to stand a chance of not blowing ourselves up into smithereens, or just to walk down the streets without fear of violence.

 

[Dport]

Wtf is "murder music"?

 

[WangDangDoodle]

Point being, these comments often are hurting other people. That's why I made the thread. I have personally been in situations where I've heard people putting on murder music in my prescence, and saying "gays should die", and I have seen far more intelligent, empathetic and honourable straight men than you, actually speak up about that shit.



Noone said anything about jobs, You clearly have 0 idea of what our life experiences are, if you would make a comment that clueless. You are on a site where the demographics are unusual, there are a shit load of a gay and bi guys on here, so there is no excuse whatsoever for that level of cluelessness.

As we are in a minority in terms of our sexuality, we have a shit load of different unpleasant life experiences that you would never have to face.

Can't remember the last time a straight guy was thrown out of his parent's house after coming out

Can't remember the last time a straight guy had to deal with being in the closet. Have you ever bothered to ask anyone who has been through that, what does that actually feel like?

Do you get people shouting shit at you offline regarding your sexuality?

Can't remember the last time a straight man was beaten up for his heterosexuality.

Do you get stupid and insensitive questions all the time OFFLINE regarding your sexuality?

Have you lost friends after they've found out about your sexuality?

Do not for a split second pretend that there is some sort of parity in those experiences. The ones I've just quoted all happened to either myself or other people I know, and there are a shitload more that I could mention. So pretending that there is parity in experiences as you just did, shows how little you know about other men's lives.

I've never heard of a gay man bringing up a heterophobic word in a serious context, and even in a joking context it was mild and I've heard it about once in my entire life. These sort of words just never get used and I'm only even familiar with one of them.

You try listening a bit and you will sound less like a hick. Also if you did listen a bit more, you would notice another interesting difference, one I'll happily share with you now.

The only men I have EVER met that couldn't string a sentence together in their own mother tongue were ALL straight (and to be honest there have been a fair few). I have NEVER met a gay man who reached anywhere near that level of inarticulation. So by listening to us, you might improve your abilities to express yourself too.

Calm down dude. I literally didn't say any of that. You're in Germany, have a good beer. I have no intentions of getting into any kind of political or deep discussion on a site dedicated to dick pics

 

[englad]

Wtf is "murder music"?

Certain Jamaican homophobic dancehall songs.

Calm down dude. I literally didn't say any of that. You're in Germany, have a good beer. I have no intentions of getting into any kind of political or deep discussion on a site dedicated to dick pics

You used the phrase "goes both ways" implying that there is a parity of experiences between gay men and straight men and how the words affect each group. There ain't, don't try it again. Kiosks have closed now, I'm sticking with cider

 

[twoton]

but from time to time you'll hear some (particularly younger) straight guys casually using homophobic slurs or engaging in banter that can get pretty ignorant.

Younger? In my experience it's the older guys who use slurs. The younger guys have all been schooled in the new ways of thinking.

But no, I've never checked anyone.

 

[554279]

Indirectly. I had some idiots that were busting the balls of one of my troops that rumor had it was gay (I had no idea, nor did I care).

I had no desire to entertain their comments towards the guy so I decided that they needed remedial training in not being assholes.

After chewing their asses I sent them on a shit detail and spent a great deal of time going out of my way to bust their balls until they understood I wouldn't tolerate their stupid shit.

 

[englad]

Younger? In my experience it's the older guys who use slurs. The younger guys have all been schooled in the new ways of thinking.

But no, I've never checked anyone.

I'd say more virulent homophobia you would get much more from older guys, but ignorant banter (at varying levels) I've seen from a fair few younger guys, tends to be in the late teens early twenties for that (though it is certainly less common than it used to be. A lot of it seems to depend on how many people actually come out at any particular school (and the environment they're in). So although society is way more tolerant than it used to be there's quite an aggressive undercurrent in the UK (and I mean that generally), you know that sort of "you starting something" crap, this is often described as an example of toxic masculinity, which often factors.in homophobia as well. I'm 30 now, so as a teenager that was back under the days of Section 28 (although never enforced it essentially lead to the topic of homosexuality being completely taboo and never discussed under any circumstances by teachers or the school), I think this was a large factor why virtually no one (think there were two examples at the time) came out at school. If you don't know anyone who's gay, it's easier for homophobic stereotyping to continue. Seen that in a couple of the countries I've lived in. Probably most extreme was in Austria (that was related to the "murder music" experience), I did lose any respect for the guy (and unsurprisingly did not come out to him) in question but used the "acquaintance" for free weed lol on a couple of extra occasions, if I'm being brutally honest. I think it was worse there, simply because the country tends to be very rural and conservative.

Also the timeline of growing acceptance is pretty recent, most LGBT rights advances (and the corresponding societal attitude changes) have really taken place in the last 15 years.

I think a certain amount of bigotry is the norm, worldwide. In almost every nation you will find disparaging characterizations of minorities and members of other nations. It happens with my gay and lesbian friends as well, as I've heard ignorant statements made about straight people, spoken in my presence, but always coupled with a somehow qualifying "oh, we don't mean you, of course." I believe it stems from what Martin Buber called "I" and "thou" thinking. When we build divisions between one another and separate ourselves along those lines we then begin to feel uneasy about those "others" potential actions and motivations. We can assume that those within our clan/group will act in a way which we understand, but once you are not included within that group, the rationale for all sorts of actions become unknown, and thus distrusted. Once we stop looking at each other as "them" and instead as "we," bigotry ends and empathy begins. It is what the human race needs to strive for, if we want to stand a chance of not blowing ourselves up into smithereens, or just to walk down the streets without fear of violence.

That's an interesting one, I tend to use the term "tribalism" for that. This forming of an "in group" to exclude the "out group". You do get that all the time, this "well apart from you you're one of the good ones" style. I've always had a very mixed social circle myself, pretty evenly split between the sexes, but having said that not really had masses of other gay men in my social circle (a few close friends of course, some from back in my more frequent clubbing days and colleagues etc), so oddly enough the one I happened to see the most of that way round was lesbian friends of mine ranting about the number of fag hags when we were clubbing on the scene (most of the group I went out with at the time were gay women). When I personally saw that, I think it mainly showed a total lack of understanding for why some straight women would enjoy being in a mainly gay male space for a night out, aside from just having gay male friends, I have had straight female friends that like being in an environment because they are not the focus of unwanted attention. Empathy is clearly the key to bringing that all down (excluding the 1% of the population that have psychopathic tendencies), it's probably the most beautiful thing humanity is capable of.