Have you noticed that high church christians have a thing for corporal punishment?

Guy-jin

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Christianity is about love, understanding, forgiveness, and all that is good. With that being said, it's not easy being a Christian when we live in an imperfect world. Jesus could forgive all because he was perfect. We are flawed humans and are incapable of perfection.

But Jesus was a human. That's quite the conundrum/laughably bad justification you've got there.
 

JustAsking

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You're talking about Catholics, I assume. All the high church Anglicans, Episcopalians and Lutherans I know are not advocates of corporal punishment.


ELCA (Lutherans):
It is because of this church's commitment to justice that we oppose the death penalty. Lutheran Christians have called for an assault on the root causes of violent crime, an assault for which executions are no substitute. The ongoing controversy surrounding the death penalty shows the weaknesses of its justifications. We would be a better society by joining the many nations that have already abolished capital punishment.


Catholic Cathechism:
"Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.​


If, however, nonlethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.​


Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."​

And so on. If this is what the OP meant by High Church, then all I see is universal condemnation of capital punishment.
 

MattBrick

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Big bull:
The death penalty is Captial Punishment
Corporal punishment on the other hand is the term used to describe
when teachers are allowed to discipline students by hitting them, even ritualisiticly, with say a paddle or ruler.

The term corporal comes from latin, and means having to do with the body. That is to say, as opposed to some other negative reinforcer that affects the child mentally - even though likewise in the case of corporal punishment the social shame is worse and more motivating than the sting.


I know a lot of Protestant Christians who believe in the death penalty. I just shake my head...and walk away in disbelief.

Here's what I ask Christians who advocate the death penalty? Would you be able to administer the lethal injection? If you have any doubts, then you need to rethink your stance.

Christianity is not, for the most, about love and understanding. Acting in accordance with the sacred heart of Jesus is to be counter-Christian.:rolleyes:
 

Drifterwood

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I wasn't refering to capital punishment, rather corporal punishment, as described by Dragonfly.

I was wondering if there is some connection between some churches and a sado masochistic penchant for punishment, giving and receiving. There is a branch of the catholic church in which members routinely cause themselves pain and distress.

Why do those meting out the punishment get off as in dragonfly's experience and do some of the victims end up needing physical punishment for absolution?
 

MattBrick

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First of all, this thread is bigotted, ignorant, and crass.
I don't usually waste my time drawing attention to garbage like this.

To the point though: High Church is being used incorrectly.

High Church vs. Low Church is a dichotomy used to describe segments within the Anglican Churches. High Church means subscribing to the more elaborate rituals, and being closer in the flavor of the Services to the Roman Catholic Church. Low Church means holding to simplified ritual, and focusing on preaching (and sometimes hymn singing), and a style of worship closer to the Reformed (Presbyterian, etc.) Churches.
Low Church is ocasionally used when talking about Methodism historically, because the denomination grew out of Low Church segments of the Church of England
High Church though is not applied correctly to any other denominations. Catholics, Lutherans (some Methodists and other Protestand denoms.) a long with Eastern Christians are properly said to be Liturgical Churches - that is they to varying degrees consider ceremony to be important to Chrsitian worship.

So this thread makes no sense.
 

jason_els

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In the first paragraph you say you're advocating everything Jesus stood against. In the second you're saying Jesus was, "about love, understanding, forgiveness." If you're a Christian then you follow the example of Jesus and I don't believe Jesus would have killed anyone. He certainly had the chance to escape death, and if you believe he was the son of God then with but a whim of his will he could have rendered his murderers into oblivion.

Following the teachings of Jesus is far more difficult than most Christians imagine.

If you truly believe in the death penalty then you must assume the role of executioner as surely as the executioner of record because it is in your name that death is meted out by the state.

I advocate the death penalty but I don't take it lightly. It's for the worst of the worst. The people who have killed and showed no respect for human life. I believe in our system of "innocent until proven guilty", even though it's hard at times, and I also believe in giving an accused person DNA tests and whatever is needed to prove his/her innocence. I would not be able to administer the lethal injection as it's not my job to do it. But if it were a loved one of mine who was murdered by a monster, and I was asked, I just might be able to do it.

Christianity is about love, understanding, forgiveness, and all that is good. With that being said, it's not easy being a Christian when we live in an imperfect world. Jesus could forgive all because he was perfect. We are flawed humans and are incapable of perfection.
 

HazelGod

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We saved your ass at the Alamo.

You realize, of course, that Santa Anna's forces overran the Alamo and killed everyone in the fort, right? Since nobody's ass was saved, you've chosen a convoluted means of stating that you did nothing...which, while technically accurate, is utterly meaningless. Then again, that's pretty much par for the course. Carry on.
 

The Dragon

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I wasn't refering to capital punishment, rather corporal punishment, as described by Dragonfly.

I was wondering if there is some connection between some churches and a sado masochistic penchant for punishment, giving and receiving. There is a branch of the catholic church in which members routinely cause themselves pain and distress.

Why do those meting out the punishment get off as in dragonfly's experience and do some of the victims end up needing physical punishment for absolution?

Drifterwood,
I was prepared to give an answer to your question when I read and realized what this thread has turned into.
I don't think I am able to disclose anymore of my experiences in this matter.
At the time when reading your opening post I felt that this was an issue that could stand to have some light shed on it and felt that my frank and very painful disclosures would help foster MEANINGFUL discussion on the topic.
As it stands at this moment I bitterly regret and am ashamed of my post and that I have opened old wounds for nothing.
Dragonfly.
 

Drifterwood

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Yes DF, it was a remarkably open post.

I went to a high anglican establishment and there were several teachers who were fond of the rod, though it was all done in private and no jerking off.

There seems to be a connection between sado eroticism and some religions. I am wondering why?
 

Drifterwood

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You realize, of course, that Santa Anna's forces overran the Alamo and killed everyone in the fort, right? Since nobody's ass was saved, you've chosen a convoluted means of stating that you did nothing...which, while technically accurate, is utterly meaningless. Then again, that's pretty much par for the course. Carry on.

I knew you wouldn't get the joke - I'll change it now.
 

MattBrick

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Some people quote from wikipedia
- others write and edit it.
I didn't consult wikipedia in my response, but if you found information there, you must realize that it is common knowledge and widely agreed upon.

Besides, I don't think anyone here needs a lesson on plagiarism from a guy with a wooden penis on his profile :)
 

jason_els

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Wait, wait, wait.....

It's not a Christian thing. It's a religious thing.

Fasting, mortification of the flesh, submission of the spirit are all psychological techniques used as catalysts for religious revelation. This is not confined to Christianity by any means. It is easier to bring about altered states of consciousness which, in turn, may become mystic experiences when people are under physical or emotional stressors. When these practices are engaged in, the body releases endorphins and opiods which cause the mind to experience states similar to those experienced by the ingestion of mind-altering drugs.

These practices exist in every religion from the highly formalized to the shamanistic.

The problem is that mortification of the flesh or spirit has to be entered into willingly. Many of the people who mete out these punishments have found mortification useful for their spiritual growth and are expecting the same thing from those they punish. It doesn't work that way. Mortification for spiritual revelation becomes simple torture. Many people enter into vocational life because they don't know what else to do or because they feel they should do it. These are the people who should never go near it. Again, compare the sadistic clergy with the clearly inspired clergy, not just of Christianity. Think of the imams of Islam who preach jihad and those who preach peace. While we don't hear about it, there are similar clergies in most religions, even Buddhism and Hinduism have sects which practice various forms of enforced mortification.
 

MattBrick

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Originally Posted by Italian978 [URL]http://www.lpsg.org/images36/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
Christianity is about love, understanding, forgiveness, and all that is good. With that being said, it's not easy being a Christian when we live in an imperfect world. Jesus could forgive all because he was perfect. We are flawed humans and are incapable of perfection

But Jesus was a human. That's quite the conundrum/laughably bad justification you've got there.

Sometimes&#8230;&#8230; I don&#8217;t know about this site.
This thread is even a little less intelligent than
what usually makes it on here.

Now that we are all on the same page as to what the question that prompted this thread really means&#8230;..
You might have kept this piece of condescension and ignorance to yourself.

Consider that Christians believe that Jesus is God and Man. This, along with the concept of the Trinity, are defining Christian beliefs. That is to say that believing this is what distinguises Christians from non-Christians.

Please be a little tolerant. Please be a little informed.

Your calling this example a conundrum, and laughable is akin to an American, or a European calling an Indian&#8217;s religious vegetarianism &#8220;laughable&#8221; or foolish, because he hadn&#8217;t taken the time to understand their belief in the transmigration of the soul, the accumulation of karma, the concept of ahimsa, or how the practice is deeply ingrained in their culture, society, and cuisine for a variety of other reasons.

If you don&#8217;t agree with another&#8217;s belief, that doesn&#8217;t mean your belief is superior just because it is yours. Likewise, understand the logical propositions before formulating a rhetorical tautology. A conundrum after all is a test relating to lateral thinking &#8211; that is what is not obvious or computable by traditional logic. This is no conundrum at all though. Note that the author proposes that We are flawed humans, not that All humans are/were flawed.Logically contingent. So be a little open minded.
And as far as the study of religion, you might try calling something you still can&#8217;t wrap your mind around a paradox, instead of laughable, because the paradox, after all is where religion and tolerance both take their start.
Have fun.
 

Drifterwood

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Bigoted, only has one t Matt.

This thread is about a correlation between punishing the flesh and sexual gratification and an association with some christians who seem to enjoy wielding the whip.

I take it your knee jerk reaction is because you have taken it to be an attack on your denomination. Not so.