Having Kids
- Thread starter twista
- Start date
Tender dear I didn't say you were a waste of space, I was referring specifically to the dreadful people on this estate. If you could see them, you'd probably agree. If someone is not capable of looking after themselves, how can they be trusted to raise children?
Some people can be good (young) parents, despite whatever disadvantages they may incur - sadly many are not.
I trust you to be the exception.
Some people can be good (young) parents, despite whatever disadvantages they may incur - sadly many are not.
I trust you to be the exception.
I had been giving the idea some not-quite-serious thought. It's been a real experience learning how to be an older brother to my adopted sister. I always thought she was a brat; in fact, sometimes I still think I do, but she's nine years old now and I think we do pretty well. (It might help that I live two hours away. 
)
In all seriousness, though, I don't know how prepared I am to be a father. I don't envision myself getting married any time soon, and it's for some of the very reasons Steve said earlier. I've got a lot I want to do with my own life first. I know that having children and starting families are huge developmental life tasks that take many years and a lot of inner and expressive work to negotiate. Parenthood and all that jazz doesn't hit people "naturally," despite what we think about motherly instincts.
And for me, it may be an even greater deal because -- unsure of my marriage prospects for the future -- I would much rather adopt a child in the here and now than go through the nine months' thing. I didn't realize how "en vogue" it was for professional, educated men (in my field anyway) to adopt, until I realized that maybe they feel the same way I do. There are so many children without loving homes as it is. Sentiments aside on whether or not you can love someone as much even if they're not off of your own loins, I think you can and I think I might someday.
)In all seriousness, though, I don't know how prepared I am to be a father. I don't envision myself getting married any time soon, and it's for some of the very reasons Steve said earlier. I've got a lot I want to do with my own life first. I know that having children and starting families are huge developmental life tasks that take many years and a lot of inner and expressive work to negotiate. Parenthood and all that jazz doesn't hit people "naturally," despite what we think about motherly instincts.
And for me, it may be an even greater deal because -- unsure of my marriage prospects for the future -- I would much rather adopt a child in the here and now than go through the nine months' thing. I didn't realize how "en vogue" it was for professional, educated men (in my field anyway) to adopt, until I realized that maybe they feel the same way I do. There are so many children without loving homes as it is. Sentiments aside on whether or not you can love someone as much even if they're not off of your own loins, I think you can and I think I might someday.
Dee,
That is a well thought out and rational comment. The fact that you would consider taking on a child that is much in need of love shows that you are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside!
I really love this thread because the responses though at times surprising are open and honest. I do not down anyone who does not feel they have what it takes to raise a child successfully. For those who are in the midst of it, hang in there your efforts will be rewarded. The older I get the more I can appreciate the career sacrifices that both of my parents made in order to be there for and with me.
Naughty
That is a well thought out and rational comment. The fact that you would consider taking on a child that is much in need of love shows that you are as beautiful on the inside as you are on the outside!
I really love this thread because the responses though at times surprising are open and honest. I do not down anyone who does not feel they have what it takes to raise a child successfully. For those who are in the midst of it, hang in there your efforts will be rewarded. The older I get the more I can appreciate the career sacrifices that both of my parents made in order to be there for and with me.
Naughty
Interesting thread and interesting comments...
I personally want children. I love and adore them and have always helped take care of children at various points of my life - be it nieces, nephews or by babysitting (lasting from a couple of hours to a week at a time).
Ever since I was a teenager, I felt the nuturing and mothering side of me wanting and yearning for my own children. I was never raised in a family that thought I ought to have children, although, like Naughty, that was/is expected to a degree. However, I was reared and encouraged to achieve the things I want in life and to be happy in those choices.
I use to want a "football" team - 12 boys - until I graduated from college and taught school. I was 22 years old and taught in a public high school. The things those guys said and did was enough for me to narrow my 12 boys down to 2, as well as send me back to graduate school! LOL
In addition to me wanting children, I would also like to stay home and take care of them, as well as my husband and our home. This is something that my parents choke on everytime I bring it up because they feel I am giving up something. Yet, that is what I want. And, if and when I get married, we are financially able to accomodate that, I will be an at-home-mom. Those are my choices...
I personally want children. I love and adore them and have always helped take care of children at various points of my life - be it nieces, nephews or by babysitting (lasting from a couple of hours to a week at a time).
Ever since I was a teenager, I felt the nuturing and mothering side of me wanting and yearning for my own children. I was never raised in a family that thought I ought to have children, although, like Naughty, that was/is expected to a degree. However, I was reared and encouraged to achieve the things I want in life and to be happy in those choices.
I use to want a "football" team - 12 boys - until I graduated from college and taught school. I was 22 years old and taught in a public high school. The things those guys said and did was enough for me to narrow my 12 boys down to 2, as well as send me back to graduate school! LOL
In addition to me wanting children, I would also like to stay home and take care of them, as well as my husband and our home. This is something that my parents choke on everytime I bring it up because they feel I am giving up something. Yet, that is what I want. And, if and when I get married, we are financially able to accomodate that, I will be an at-home-mom. Those are my choices...
Wow BB,
It is rare to hear a young woman come out and say that these days, but then we all know you are not just any woman! So much of our society has screamed against this and stay at home moms have not gotten the props they deserved. A football team! Now,that is something else! I remember some one I used to date looked at me one day and said he wanted a football team. I guess that is because he was an only child and had not had the joys and agonies of siblings. LOL!
I wish you the best in your future plans and, if God is willing, I hope they come to fruition for you. You have so much going for you. I am sure they will.
Naughty
It is rare to hear a young woman come out and say that these days, but then we all know you are not just any woman! So much of our society has screamed against this and stay at home moms have not gotten the props they deserved. A football team! Now,that is something else! I remember some one I used to date looked at me one day and said he wanted a football team. I guess that is because he was an only child and had not had the joys and agonies of siblings. LOL!
I wish you the best in your future plans and, if God is willing, I hope they come to fruition for you. You have so much going for you. I am sure they will.
Naughty
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2003
- Posts
- 140
- Media
- 1
- Likes
- 92
- Points
- 448
- Location
- Louisiana (United States)
- Verification
- View
- Sexuality
- 90% Straight, 10% Gay
That is really interesting BB. It is ashame that people try to down stay at home moms, but little do they realize that it is a full time job with no financial compensation. That is the way it was throughout time and only recently has it become down played. I applaud anyone, be it man or woman, who choose to stay home and take care of their family. Obviously, it is not for everyone.
madame_zora
Sexy Member
BB, I will echo Naughty's praise of your choices! I feel that making choices is the only way to achieve goals. I realize we are often thrust into less than perfect situations and must make the best of them, as in Tender's case. Often these experiences do build character and people find a way to step up to the plate. Sadly tho, the numbers aren't good. While there are exceptions to every rule, unplanned families usually have more obstacles to overcome, including financial, emotional and even logistical ones. If you have the opportunity it is far better to stack the odds in your favor. I wholly applaud the idea of being a stay-at-home-mom, not much you could ever do that would be more fulfilling than that! Since I was divorced when my daughter was young, it was never an option for me- we had to spend "quality time" as much as possible. I was fortunate enough to start my sewing biz then, which allowed me to be at home with her all day, which was a blessing beyond compare! I encourage anyone who has young ones at home to consider creative forms of employment that will allow for shared time with your children, you will never regret the time you spend there.
I wish we spent more time in education about contraception! Before the time of aids, it was easily available for family planning but not encouraged because of many issues, one being a misguided religous view that it was against God!! I seriously doubt God wanted us to make a bunch of children no one wanted to care for, or were emotionally or financially able to care for. These right-wing groups are nowhere to be found once the child is born, but they sure are very vocal about their rights to be born! Is it possible the Catholics are STILL trying to just breed more Catholics? (dodges flying arrows) Now that we do have life threatening illnesses transmitted through sex, discomfort is simply NOT a plausible reason for not using condoms, IMHO. For me, if condoms are not availble, I'm just not able to have sex, it's really very simple. No surprise children, no unwanted diseases, I am in control of my bodily functions. A slight difference in sensation is far better for me than death or unplanned preganancy. As for the incidence of condom failure, yes that variable is there, but honestly is very remote if the condom is applied and used properly. I know far too many people who use this idea as a reason not to use them at all, which is shameful. I know that in a perfect world, family planning would be a shared responsibility, but since women are the ones who will potentially get pregnant and bear the burden of reaponsibility, I hope we will be the ones to take charge in this very important area of reproduction.
I wish we spent more time in education about contraception! Before the time of aids, it was easily available for family planning but not encouraged because of many issues, one being a misguided religous view that it was against God!! I seriously doubt God wanted us to make a bunch of children no one wanted to care for, or were emotionally or financially able to care for. These right-wing groups are nowhere to be found once the child is born, but they sure are very vocal about their rights to be born! Is it possible the Catholics are STILL trying to just breed more Catholics? (dodges flying arrows) Now that we do have life threatening illnesses transmitted through sex, discomfort is simply NOT a plausible reason for not using condoms, IMHO. For me, if condoms are not availble, I'm just not able to have sex, it's really very simple. No surprise children, no unwanted diseases, I am in control of my bodily functions. A slight difference in sensation is far better for me than death or unplanned preganancy. As for the incidence of condom failure, yes that variable is there, but honestly is very remote if the condom is applied and used properly. I know far too many people who use this idea as a reason not to use them at all, which is shameful. I know that in a perfect world, family planning would be a shared responsibility, but since women are the ones who will potentially get pregnant and bear the burden of reaponsibility, I hope we will be the ones to take charge in this very important area of reproduction.
My hat is off to you, bblumbee! It is correctly said that a person's character is revealed by the way they respond to children and animals. Obviously, you are a person of high character; one which is sorely needed to guide future citizens of our country and inhabitants of the world. It's beyond my understanding how any person can be 'cold hearted' enough to not love and want children of their own. They are the best thing that ever happened to me and my life would be so incomplete without them.
May the power by with you, fellow LPSG member -- you're great!
Luke
May the power by with you, fellow LPSG member -- you're great!
Luke
Luke,
NOT taking anything away from your love of children or BBLUmbee's but there are many reasons why people do not feel they have what it takes to rear children. Some may be selfish but others did not have a good childhood themselves and lack the confidence it takes to rear them. Others may have emotional issues such as depression which make even the thought of having that extra responsibility an added burden.Sometimes they just are not able to have them. I used to be so dogmatic about what I thought other people should do.But I have not walked a mile in their shoes.
Naughty
NOT taking anything away from your love of children or BBLUmbee's but there are many reasons why people do not feel they have what it takes to rear children. Some may be selfish but others did not have a good childhood themselves and lack the confidence it takes to rear them. Others may have emotional issues such as depression which make even the thought of having that extra responsibility an added burden.Sometimes they just are not able to have them. I used to be so dogmatic about what I thought other people should do.But I have not walked a mile in their shoes.
Naughty
I wholeheartedly endorse Madame Zora's veiw re contraception. For the last 50 years or more, there has been no excuse for having an unplanned child ("oops, it just happened!"). No it doesn't just happen - you have a fuck without contraception - that's how it happens!
One contestant on a quiz show the other day was Irish (almost certainly Catholic) and he was the father of thirteen children. Well, having 13 kids is fine if you are Bobby Kennedy and could afford them (sorry, can't think of anyone else famous who had 13 children! but for the average Joe Soap that's got to be a no-no. When asked what he would do with any money he won, he "joked" he would then be able to afford the kids. Hmm .. some joke.
One contestant on a quiz show the other day was Irish (almost certainly Catholic) and he was the father of thirteen children. Well, having 13 kids is fine if you are Bobby Kennedy and could afford them (sorry, can't think of anyone else famous who had 13 children!
but for the average Joe Soap that's got to be a no-no. When asked what he would do with any money he won, he "joked" he would then be able to afford the kids. Hmm .. some joke.Heh,
IF it is part of a belief system, and they at least try to take care of them and do not abuse them, don't you think that is really the parent's choice? The individuals that actually give pause are those who mindlessly conceive ( negligent about birth control, using child as a weapon, living baby doll, etc.) on multiple occasions. The classic that really urk me are young ( and sometimes not so) women who feel that they can obligate a man by getting pregnant on multiple occassions to keep him.Well, not only have they ruined their own life, trapped and caused resentment in the man, but also have in a way been abusive to the child by trying to use his existence as a weapon. Nine times out of ten they finally do end up being an overstretched, single mother who does not have time to adequately tend to the child or children's emotional needs because she has to work multiple low paying jobs to support the offspring or some way or another the grandparents are brought into the process.
Oh, and by the way, my mom was number 14 of her siblings and my father number 2 of 8. Though they raised their children adequately even during the early 20th century they gained much ridicule for the sizes of their families. Most of their collective children graduated at the top of their classes and went on to college and graduate school. My grandparents were sticklers for education and high moral fibre . They also taught by word and example that one should not plant seeds that one is not going to be able to adequately cultivate...
Naughty
IF it is part of a belief system, and they at least try to take care of them and do not abuse them, don't you think that is really the parent's choice? The individuals that actually give pause are those who mindlessly conceive ( negligent about birth control, using child as a weapon, living baby doll, etc.) on multiple occasions. The classic that really urk me are young ( and sometimes not so) women who feel that they can obligate a man by getting pregnant on multiple occassions to keep him.Well, not only have they ruined their own life, trapped and caused resentment in the man, but also have in a way been abusive to the child by trying to use his existence as a weapon. Nine times out of ten they finally do end up being an overstretched, single mother who does not have time to adequately tend to the child or children's emotional needs because she has to work multiple low paying jobs to support the offspring or some way or another the grandparents are brought into the process.
Oh, and by the way, my mom was number 14 of her siblings and my father number 2 of 8. Though they raised their children adequately even during the early 20th century they gained much ridicule for the sizes of their families. Most of their collective children graduated at the top of their classes and went on to college and graduate school. My grandparents were sticklers for education and high moral fibre . They also taught by word and example that one should not plant seeds that one is not going to be able to adequately cultivate...
Naughty
madame_zora
Sexy Member
tracksuitboy, it is also beyond my comprehension how our society has managed to legitimize the whole "oops" idea. I started vocally endorsing condom use in my high school at the age of 14- not a very popular thing to do in the 70's with free love and all that shit still carrying over from the 60's! I have heard every excuse from "I can't afford them" to "it's too embarrassing to buy them" to "my dick's too big to fit in the" to "I don't like the way they feel/ can't get off"......when it comes right down to it, none of them hold any credibility at all when you compare them with the alternatives of unwanted children that you have to spend money on for 18 years! I bet then they'd wish they spent $10 for some condoms instead of $10k per year per kid! Not comfortable? How comfortable is aids? Ever had to watch your dear friend whither and die painfully because of something we now know enough to prevent? I have. Comfort is no excuse to risk spreading aids. I hate excuses. I hate the kind of people who make them. No matter WHAT the reason, if a person is not able to have sex safely, they are simply NOT mature enough to have sex. I know that that has no relevance to whether or not they will, but the issue is in fact maturity, as Tender said.
Tender, I applaud you for supporting your family and making the best of a less than ideal situation, you are obviously much more mature than many who find themselves in that situation. I am also glad that your husband was willing to get a vasectomy after you had the size of family you wanted. Planning can take many forms, and that's a very good solution. I'm sure you know you are one of the lucky ones that has a good man to raise your family with, I wish all young mothers were so fortunate! I genuinely wish you and your family the very best.
And, lastly, Roystoys, I am going to blast you for a minute on a backward and retarded view that has been a burden to many throughout the years. Just because someone elects not to raise children DOES NOT make them cold-hearted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The value of a human life is more than their ability to reproduce!!! Grrr, how inane. I'm glad you love your children, but for God's sake can we please stop dumping guilt on people for making whatever choices are best for them?? Why does anyone owe it to you to live their life according to your book? I celebrate people knowing themselves enough to know if the committment of a family is one they are ready and able to handle, or even interested in taking on that responsibilty. Many worthwhile things can be accomplished better without that added weight and many people DO have joyous and fulfilling lives in other areas. I know many gay men that feel compelled to marry and have children just because society tell us that's what we must do to be useful members of the human race, and this often leads to tragic family breakups and trauma that could easily have been avoided if we were sending the message that it's okay to be who you really are. I am glad for these kinds of discussions, even Oprah and the other talk shows bring important issues into the light so that people have reasons to question traditional philosophies and grow new opinions. As for selfishness, well what's wrong with that? And beyond that, I think it's more selfish to have more children than you can afford to raise than to plan your future the way you want it!
Tender, I applaud you for supporting your family and making the best of a less than ideal situation, you are obviously much more mature than many who find themselves in that situation. I am also glad that your husband was willing to get a vasectomy after you had the size of family you wanted. Planning can take many forms, and that's a very good solution. I'm sure you know you are one of the lucky ones that has a good man to raise your family with, I wish all young mothers were so fortunate! I genuinely wish you and your family the very best.
And, lastly, Roystoys, I am going to blast you for a minute on a backward and retarded view that has been a burden to many throughout the years. Just because someone elects not to raise children DOES NOT make them cold-hearted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The value of a human life is more than their ability to reproduce!!! Grrr, how inane. I'm glad you love your children, but for God's sake can we please stop dumping guilt on people for making whatever choices are best for them?? Why does anyone owe it to you to live their life according to your book? I celebrate people knowing themselves enough to know if the committment of a family is one they are ready and able to handle, or even interested in taking on that responsibilty. Many worthwhile things can be accomplished better without that added weight and many people DO have joyous and fulfilling lives in other areas. I know many gay men that feel compelled to marry and have children just because society tell us that's what we must do to be useful members of the human race, and this often leads to tragic family breakups and trauma that could easily have been avoided if we were sending the message that it's okay to be who you really are. I am glad for these kinds of discussions, even Oprah and the other talk shows bring important issues into the light so that people have reasons to question traditional philosophies and grow new opinions. As for selfishness, well what's wrong with that? And beyond that, I think it's more selfish to have more children than you can afford to raise than to plan your future the way you want it!
Thank you. If I did not love children, as Luke suggested, I'm going into the wrong profession. Teaching high school students will take more patience than many parents possess. I care enough about children to make sure they receive the best education that I can provide. I'm going to help prepare them for their futures. But I am gay, and I am comfortable with that fact. I'm not going to have sex with a woman just for the sake of siring a child, and I'm not going to jack off into a beaker to provide seed for invitro-fertilisation. There are ways to love children without thinking you have to be a parent (no NAMBLA remarks, please).
madame_zora
Sexy Member
Naughty, of course a family that wants a lot of kids and takes care of them is awesome! I would never suggest we limit anyone's choice to do what they feel is right. I think it's very cool that your grandparents were able to instill good values and a sense of self in their children, many families that are much smaller are not able to accomplish that task. I was ONLY referring to the ones who get pregnant by accident and DON'T become loving parents, which sadly is all to often the case.
I in no way meant to say anything negetive about people to adapt favorably to their life and make a good go of it. Tender said earlier that she perfers not to "make" everything happen, but she seems perfectly content to be responsible for the results. That is a position I had not considered, but it is a very valid point. I love these discussions because of all the wonderful things I learn from everyone on here!
DMW, education is the worthiest of all professions, IMHO. I am sure you will contribute more to the lives you touch than many who are parents ever will. When my daughter was in school, I was amazed at the lack of parent participation there. Often, we were begging for help in pta meetings, when we should have been overloaded with people! You seem to genuinely care about your students, and that will be a treasure for them as well as yourself.
I in no way meant to say anything negetive about people to adapt favorably to their life and make a good go of it. Tender said earlier that she perfers not to "make" everything happen, but she seems perfectly content to be responsible for the results. That is a position I had not considered, but it is a very valid point. I love these discussions because of all the wonderful things I learn from everyone on here!
DMW, education is the worthiest of all professions, IMHO. I am sure you will contribute more to the lives you touch than many who are parents ever will. When my daughter was in school, I was amazed at the lack of parent participation there. Often, we were begging for help in pta meetings, when we should have been overloaded with people! You seem to genuinely care about your students, and that will be a treasure for them as well as yourself.
madame_zora
Sexy Member
Naughty, we were certainly not disagreeing! I am sure we are both in agreement on what is and is not a good family setting, I'm not against large families, just uncared-for ones.
Hmmm. Luke, so often I agree with what you say in your postings but I do take exception to the first part of the quote. It seems in the straight world that there must be something wrong with you if you do not have children; you must be cold-hearted, selfish, self-centered, non-people. Bullshit. It's part of the (primarily religious) belief system that children must be borne. Well, actually, no. Two friends of mine are now 31 & 32 and - for the time being - have decided not to have children; these two are looked down on by their friends as if there is something wrong with them. They both like kids; one was a nursery teacher for a few years. They have simply decided to wait and probably have kids in a few years' time. This doesn't make them cold-hearted Luke. They are delaying because there are certain things they want to do in their lives (getting a house together, travelling etc) before children come along.
The other part of your quote I happily agree with. I imagine - and I can only imagine because I don't have children - that once you do have them, they should be the centre of your universe. Bringing a child into the world should never be done "on a whim", should never be done "because he didn't wear a rubber"; children do not ask to be born, therefore it is the parents duty to do their absolute very best for the child regardless of their circumstances. And, as DMW said, there are many things you can do for children without actually being a parent.
Re the two friends above; two friends of theirs had a baby 3 years ago. I first saw the little girl when she was 3 months and just fell in love with her; she was the most adorable little thing I'd ever seen. Her parents have not got a clue; their idea of "keeping her quiet" was to put her into a chair in front on MTV. Now, at 3, she hadly talks, she had to be shown by her grandparents how to crawl. I find this appalling. They treat her as though she is a fashion-accessory. I hate the bastards for it. This is why I said in an earlier posting that people need to be educated re the raising of children.
Similar threads
