Having Kids

[benderten2001]

Each of us is different and our upbringing influences to a great extent how we feel towards relationships, marriage, and children, I strongly believe.

Surrounded all my life with broken relationships in both family and friendship circles, and being "assigned" (it seems) care-giving roles to aging family members--one right after another, I consequently never married. Never wanted to be married, and NEVER (seriously) wanted children it seems. I was turned off.

Over the last several years though, my attitude has changed full circle--probably realizing now what I have (perhaps) "missed out on" compared to other men I know around me. (I'm also cognizant of what I have been "spared" too&#33

Turning fifty this year and the ever-ticking biological clock (even though I KNOW it's different for men, certainly&#33 has nonetheless caught up with me. I think often about "there's still time for me!"

Just yesterday, the phone rang in my office and my colleague was expecting a call from his wife. I anwered the phone expecting to greet his wife and instead heard this timid, shy, weak little voice of his daughter.

"HI DADDY!".

You know? THAT kinda sounded good to me somehow!

(I'll never forget the feeling.)

 

[B_RoysToy]

traclsuitboy: I would never have used the term "cold-hearted" to describe those who postpone having children until a future, more convenient time, whether for financial or various other reasons. I couldn't agree more that children are not for everyone, as you gave the example of the parents of the neglected little girl. I have a niece who doesn't like children, never intended to have any of her own, had been a public school librarian until she retired, and still expresses her dislike for them even today. Although she is a caring, loving person in lots of ways, her position re. children make her, to me, a selfish, cold-hearted person. This is sad and my heart goes out to her.

Of course, I understand why most gays resign themselves to the fact that they will never have children, but the vast majority of the ones I know have told me that they would like to have them. This is evidenced by the number of gay couples who do adopt and the on-going drive to get laws changed making it legal. I think there are many, many gays who would make excellent parents.

I think bringing children into the world is a God-given wonder that should cause parents to sacrifice, if need be, and 'walk the extra mile' to give and do the best possible for the created ones. I am honored that you often agree with what I post and thank you for taking the time to let me know that, my friend.


benderten2001: Your being so impressed by the timid, shy, weak little voice on the phone, reveals the loving person that you are and how a child would benefit from being exposed to that love. I have known age to change lots of people's ideas and positions, in fact, I consider this an advantage of old age. Thank you for telling us your views on this serious subject, Don.

And now, DMW: I suppose what I regret most in your not having children is the fact that the world will be deprived of attractive, intelligent replicas of the Goya
family. Your strain would have so much to offer!

Peace,

Luke

 

[13788]

LoveGirl: Why don't you adopt? There are millions of children in the world that need families.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by RoysToy@Jun 25 2004, 12:02 AM
And now, DMW: I suppose what I regret most in your not having children is the fact that the world will be deprived of attractive, intelligent replicas of the Goya
family.

Uh ... thanks. But make that the Núñez family. Goya is my mother's last name.

 

[jonb]

Didn't we already have this discussion of the other side of Malthus?

 

[madame_zora]

I think the point, Luke, is that people can contribute to the betterment of society in ways other than reproduction, if they so choose. I am sorry you feel otherwise.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Good grief, Madam, I don't need you to tell me that. My working career has been with students in education. What other mundane thing can you come up with?

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Jun 25 2004, 04:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DoubleMeatWhopper @ Jun 25 2004, 04:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RoysToy@Jun 25 2004, 12:02 AM
And now, DMW: I suppose what I regret most in your not having children is the fact that the world will be deprived of attractive, intelligent replicas of the Goya
family.

Uh ... thanks. But make that the Núñez family. Goya is my mother&#39;s last name. [/b][/quote]
Gosh, and all this time I&#39;ve been thinking "Jacinto Rafael Constentino Rene Jesus Nunez Goya" ended with your family name. My ignorance of Spanish is pathetic&#33;

Luke :wub:

 

[madame_zora]

Lol, I&#39;m glad you considered my post mundane, Luke&#33; It was your choice to defend your position on "breeders", not mine&#33; I merely stated that DMW didn&#39;t have to breed to contribute to the world satisfactorily, if you felt the same way, you should have said that instead of "mourning the loss of his unborn children of whatever name&#33;&#33;" Talk about mundane....

 

[13788]

Javierdude22:

Originally posted by RoysToy+Jun 25 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RoysToy @ Jun 25 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Jun 25 2004, 04:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-RoysToy

@Jun 25 2004, 12:02 AM
And now, DMW:  I suppose what I regret most in your not having children is the fact that the world will be deprived of attractive, intelligent replicas of the Goya
family.

Uh ... thanks. But make that the Núñez family. Goya is my mother&#39;s last name.

Gosh, and all this time I&#39;ve been thinking "Jacinto Rafael Constentino Rene Jesus Nunez Goya" ended with your family name. My ignorance of Spanish is pathetic&#33;

Luke :wub: [/b][/quote]
Luke,

In Hispanic/Spanish countries kids get their father&#39;s family name fisrt and then their mother&#39;s. It constitutes one surname there. I have thus a Spanish-Dutch last name. The Dutch part is actually so véry Dutch (much like Smith would be in the US) that the combination is weird and hardly exotic, lol&#33;

Thing is, in Holland they should&#39;ve only taken my Spanish last name, they fucked up however and did both. So if I would marry (right&#33 a Spanish woman (..) and live in Spain and had kids (..) they would be called Spanish-Dutch-Spanish. Mindboggling...

 

[13788]

Javierdude22: Having kids...yesss...i&#39;ll take &#39;em.

But not just like that. Look, in all honesty, I would kill to have a kid. I would trade any intelligence I (think I) have, agree to live on a wage that would provide little more than food and a roof over my head, live in another country, climb any mountain. I would love to have one now already, if not a few years ago.

However, much like many things in life, things turned out differently than I expected. Although very straight in anything else in life, my sexual preference thought &#39;Hey, what the hell, let&#39;s turn left here&#33;&#39;.

For me that means a couple of things one of which is that I will not have children. I know people in gay relationship can adopt, inseminate, or have a baby in a petri dish <_< but that&#39;s not good enough for me. I grew up with a stereotypical family life image which I also happen to think is a correct image, when dealing with how a kid should be growing up and in what environment it should be raised.

I&#39;m not getting into whether a gay environment is equally good enough or not, my point is that I personally will not put my kid through it since I think he or she could have better. This view relates to me realising I may very well be gay, and my rather strong Christian belief system. I see this as a load to carry for me to deal with in the best possible way. For a while I thought I had it tough, ya know much like we all feel our own troubles the most. &#39;Why the hell me, this means no kids&#33;&#39; etc. etc. It may sound very goody-two-shoes, but after meeting a woman whose left side was burnt, who lived off of 1 dollar a day, had two girls to raise, and two suicide attempts on her resume you realise you should bite your lip and make the best of it.

Anyway, that concludes the &#39;Full House&#39; lesson of the day

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by Javierdude22@Jun 25 2004, 11:36 PM
This views relates to me realising I may very well be gay, and my rather strong Christian belief system. I see this as a load to carry for me to deal with in the best possible way.

A bit off-topic (so what else is new?), but, Javier, I know you have been struggling with your sexual identity. I know it&#39;s hard for some to look that identity in the face and recognise it, but that&#39;s the first step to coping with it. It seems that you are taking that step and are now prepared to come to terms with it. I salute you for that courage; you&#39;ll turn out fine, dude&#33;

 

[jonb]

Well, anyone who lives in the Andes is by definition "straight-acting". Most of us fall between a 1 and 5 on the Kinsey scale, so I&#39;m not surprised you had difficulty accepting the idea that you might be gay; after all, you like women too&#33;

As for families, you&#39;d be surprised how rare the "nuclear family" is.

 

[13788]

Tender: ...

 

[jonb]

It had a meltdown. Basically, it only exists as a result of urban living.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 25 2004, 06:21 PM
Lol, I&#39;m glad you considered my post mundane, Luke&#33; It was your choice to defend your position on "breeders", not mine&#33; I merely stated that DMW didn&#39;t have to breed to contribute to the world satisfactorily, if you felt the same way, you should have said that instead of "mourning the loss of his unborn children of whatever name&#33;&#33;" Talk about mundane....

I&#39;m so indebted to you, madam, for telling me what I should have said. I wonder how I could get along without your instructions. I&#39;ll tell you what -- since I don&#39;t seem to please you with my posts, why not just skip over them? I&#39;m promise to do likewise with yours.

No hard fellings, just wanting to get along without conflict.

Luke

 

[madame_zora]

Luke, if you had bothered to look at the quote you put up of mine, you would have noticed I only suggested you say what you mean. I said this because you originally said one thing, then later said something else. I wasn&#39;t trying to put words in your mouth or "instruct" you, as I feel certain you know. But as for your suggestion to overlook your future posts, it seems like a good one. Jana

 

[13788]

Javierdude22:

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Jun 26 2004, 12:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DoubleMeatWhopper @ Jun 26 2004, 12:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Javierdude22@Jun 25 2004, 11:36 PM
This views relates to me realising I may very well be gay, and my rather strong Christian belief system. I see this as a load to carry for me to deal with in the best possible way.

A bit off-topic (so what else is new?), but, Javier, I know you have been struggling with your sexual identity. I know it&#39;s hard for some to look that identity in the face and recognise it, but that&#39;s the first step to coping with it. It seems that you are taking that step and are now prepared to come to terms with it. I salute you for that courage; you&#39;ll turn out fine, dude&#33; [/b][/quote]
Thanx so much DMW and Jon. I think I might be a 4...or is it 2? Anyway...you get my drift.

J

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by Javierdude22+Jun 25 2004, 11:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Javierdude22 @ Jun 25 2004, 11:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by RoysToy@Jun 25 2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Jun 25 2004, 04:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-RoysToy

@Jun 25 2004, 12:02 AM
And now, DMW:  I suppose what I regret most in your not having children is the fact that the world will be deprived of attractive, intelligent replicas of the Goya
family.

Uh ... thanks. But make that the Núñez family. Goya is my mother&#39;s last name.

Gosh, and all this time I&#39;ve been thinking "Jacinto Rafael Constentino Rene Jesus Nunez Goya" ended with your family name. My ignorance of Spanish is pathetic&#33;

Luke :wub:

Luke,

In Hispanic/Spanish countries kids get their father&#39;s family name fisrt and then their mother&#39;s. It constitutes one surname there. I have thus a Spanish-Dutch last name. The Dutch part is actually so véry Dutch (much like Smith would be in the US) that the combination is weird and hardly exotic, lol&#33;

Thing is, in Holland they should&#39;ve only taken my Spanish last name, they fucked up however and did both. So if I would marry (right&#33 a Spanish woman (..) and live in Spain and had kids (..) they would be called Spanish-Dutch-Spanish. Mindboggling... [/b][/quote]
Javier: I appreciate your taking the time to post the information re. Hispanic/Spanish countries&#39; last name customs. With our blobal economy and &#39;oneness&#39;, we should know customs such as this. Thanks to members like you, LPSG continues to be a helpful site that&#39;s pleasurable to visit.

Peace,
Luke

 

[B_RoysToy]

Please make blobal global. Maybe I should learn spelling even before I learn foreign methods of writing &#33; :wub: