Health Care Reform in the United States

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Martin van Burden, May 3, 2008.

?

How should the United States engage in health care reform?

  1. universal subsidized coverage

    11 vote(s)
    42.3%
  2. single payer national system

    7 vote(s)
    26.9%
  3. expanded free market system

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  4. maintain current system as is

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  5. other

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  1. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,365
    Likes Received:
    6
    What are your thoughts on health care reform in the United States? Would the country do better by reforming into a nationalized system, a single-payer system, or an expanded free-market system?
     
  2. marleyisalegend

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,587
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    charlotte
    i think health-care is a double-edged sword. i won't speak for anyone else, but when i'm 80 years old i'd hate to think that money is being spent to keep my alive if my quality of life has already begun declining, it's expensive to keep older people with health problems alive. honestly i'd rather have my life end early than spend my last years having my diaper changed and living in physical pain, sickness and suffering. when you times this by however many people are in that position, it becomes very expensive
     
  3. Pokey4fun

    Pokey4fun New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Limit the amount of lawsuits and the price will drop.
     
  4. B_Artful Dodger

    B_Artful Dodger New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    4
    I watched a documentary about this called "Sicko" and it was really interesting. I honestly couldn't believe a country as rich and powerful had such utterly shite health care for its citizens.
    If can find any clips of it have a look at the documentary.
     
  5. Calboner

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,026
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Did you see the whole movie, including the part about health care in the UK? I wonder whether the National Health Service is really such a boon as Moore makes it out to be. One British correspondent tells me that its costs are becoming insupportable, not because of the rising cost of medical care but because of ever-increasing administrative expenses.
     
  6. SteveHd

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,849
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Daytona
    I could see such being hard to believe for someone over there.

    Keep in mind we have superb health care for those who have premium health insurance or are wealthy enough that they don't need insurance. It's the lower classes that are shit out of luck.

    At times I'm embarrassed that such a well off First World country doesn't have universal health insurance.
     
  7. Sklar

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington state
    Personally I don't want the government getting anywhere near my medical records. They already have a precedent of spying on peoples phones.

    It always amazes me that the people who scream loudest for socialized medicine are also the ones that scream the loudest about keeping the government out of womans wombs. This would give the goverment much more access than anyone would want.

    And when has the government (outside of the post office) ever done anything cheaper and better than a private company? Does anyone remember the phrase "lowest contracted bidder?"

    This is a disaster waiting to happen. If you think health insurance is expensive now, wait until this happens.

    I'll keep my private insurance which works much better than anything the government will ever be able to do.


    Thanks for listening,

    Sklar

    P.S. What do you call the doctor who graduated last in their class?

    Answer: Doctor.
     
  8. Ethyl

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,476
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    495
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Philadelphia (PA, US)
    Better yet, stop raising med school tuition so that they don't require a whopper six figure salary in order to pay off their student loans.

    The US ranks 39 in the world as far as health care is concerned (last I read; i'll link if I can find it). I'd say we're heading toward being the world's largest third world country.
    You realise you are quite lucky not to be one of the 47 million uninsured?
     
  9. kalipygian

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,982
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    alaska
    The purpose of an insurance company is not to provide medical care, it is to pass on money collected to stockholders.

    It is unfortunate there is no alternative in this country.
     
  10. Calboner

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,026
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    How is it that private insurance companies are supposed to provide consumers with better medical coverage than any government-run insurance program could do when those companies have a financial incentive to deny coverage of medical expenses to customers whenever possible, and to refuse to extend coverage at all to applicants whom they deem likely to have costly illnesses?
     
  11. Principessa

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    19,494
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Female
    My God but you are naive! That is only about 2% of the problem. Besides which there are unfortunately a huge number of incompetent doctors that maim and kill patients. The victims & surviving familys have a right to sue those bastards into the ground and have their licenses permanently revoked.

     
  12. lilbighorn

    lilbighorn New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    GA
    I voted for the single payer national system.

    But here's the key: The right to healtcare should be with the person, and not the job (i.e. not thru employer coverage of the worker).

    People should not be forced to stay in miserable jobs just to be able to see a doctor.

    I'm with Dodger, "Sicko" was extremely interesting. Try to see it, rent DVD etc., if you can.
     
  13. ausmaxx

    ausmaxx Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SoCal
    placing the publics health in the hands of private business allows profitabiliy to enter the piece... not a good union when a persons health can be measured through monetary means.

    A government that truly cares for its people sees the burdon of health care as its due diligence, not a budget line item.
     
  14. Mr. Snakey

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    24,702
    Likes Received:
    25
    No easy answers here. However anything resembling Socialized Medicine would be a complete disaster.
     
  15. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,591
    Likes Received:
    878
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    Its not just the lower classes... its the middle classes. Fewer and fewer middle class employers offer medical benefits... and as middle classer's get middle aged, fewer and fewer can qualify for independent insurance.

    And if you are self employed? Good damn luck finding coverage.



    The problem is, as usual, to be found in DEREGULATION.

    The entire CONCEPT behind insurance is to spread the risk.... the more people paying in... the better...

    But insurance companies have been allowed to write their own laws... they have been allowed to refuse insurance to those who might actually NEED it... preferring to insure only those who will least need it.



    We can fix the healthcare system very easily.

    Pass a law that insurance companies can not deny ANY person coverage for any reason... and that the highest rate can not be more than 40% higher than the lowest group rate.


    What you would find is that, if this were the law... health insurers would be pressed to get every single person they could covered...
     
  16. D_Bozhidar_Boogerpicquer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    2
    YouTube - Michael Moore: Healthcare and Crime Rate of Norway

    Moore cut that country/part out of Sicko, since he didn't think people would believe him.

    Anyways, I'm not American but I'm voting for "universal subsidized coverage" since I adore those evil socialist government programs. Thankfully I live in Canada.
     
  17. Sklar

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,278
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Washington state

    Love you too, NJQT :biggrin1:. However, if I am going to have to pay for it, I should have a say.
     
  18. Pokey4fun

    Pokey4fun New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
     
  19. Pokey4fun

    Pokey4fun New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    There is a something close to that in affect. Business' with over 10 employees can't have someone denied for pre-existing conditions, and that person get s the same rate.

    The Medium, Small business, and self-employed will get bent over hard if the govt passes a law saying they must provide health care, or take more money from them to provide it on their behalf.

    Yes, I'm a small business owner and its hard enough to survive in a market where the govt thinks it needs your money more then you do. They mandate another tax on us and more of us will close, then there will be a bigger drain, bigger tax, more closing, copy, paste, copy, paste.

    Are eggs good for us to eat agian? :biggrin1:
     
  20. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Actually, there is an easy answer: health care is a right, not a privilege. It's this tired brainwashing that most 'Mericuhns have been spoon fed since birth that a national health plan is "socialized medicine" and anathema to pinko commies on your doorstep ready to make you goose step to some sort of loss of liberties and freedom. Wrong.

    If you believe it's OK to turn excessive coin for treating someone's illness, then you'd probably be a good candidate for reinstating slavery. In many instances, that is exactly what is happening with low wage earners who stay in jobs that are detrimental to their health just so they can afford company health insurance.

    I'm far from poor, but the cheapest health insurance I was quoted in the USA (I own three different businesses in three different countries) was to pay a monthly premium of U$S1,500 a month with an annual deductible of U$S20,000 after which Blue Cross would kindly begin to pay 80% of the rest of my medical costs up to a life-time maximum of U$S100,000! Well, thank you for nothing.

    Instead, I've moved out of the USA, coming back only to vote and check on "business emergencies" in the land of the Red, White, and Blue. I have no problem with paying for my medical care, as long as it is fairly priced and good quality. I gladly paid out-of-pocket for brachytherapy and high beam radiation treatment for prostate cancer beginning in January 2007. My urologist in Argentina did his initial training as a physician in Buenos Aires. His specialty training as a urologist was completed in Paris. He did a two-year stint as a resident (two years instead of one) at the Mayo Clinic in the USA. He speaks Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and English -- all equally well. He's not only a board certified urologist, but also a surgeon. A year and a half after being diagnosed and treated for PC, I'm officially PC free for at least 5 years with a 10% chance of it recurring. And I still have a prostate! Total cost has been less than U$S 7,500.

    The Internist I see here in Barçelona was originally trained in Chicago, but after she finished her internship in general medicine she married a Catalan and moved to Barçelona 37 years ago. She would like to retire, but doesn't know what she would do if she did. This year is the first year since 1999 I won't have to pay a percentage of what the government of Spain estimates non residents or citizens of other countries should pay (it's a sliding scale) for health care. Why won't I have to pay? Because this year I've officially acquired legal residency. So, I get to enjoy the same benefits as a Spanish citizen.I visited my GP here in BCN four years ago complaining about a sharp pain in the middle of my back and being nauseous. Once the gall stones had fallen back into my gall bladder she lined me up with the head of surgery at Hospital Austral who, 24 hours later, removed my gall bladder using more advanced arthroscopic technology than is currently available in the USA. Total cost for having my gall bladder yanked plus 24-hour stay complete with nursing care before being bounced out of the hospital was a whopping U$S1,495. That's substantially less than what the deductible is for more patients in the USA who need the exact same surgery. Plus in both instances, the cancer treatments/surgery and the gall bladder removal, they were kind enough to let me charge it to my American Express card and receive skymiles for my trouble.

    As for this 2% of the "problem" with mall practice insurance in the USA, try finding a OBGYN in Las Vegas. The cost of their insurance is so prohibitively high that they've all moved to the other side of the California or Ewetaw State borders in the towns of Victorville or St. George where they get a bit of a break. It's the same throughout the State of Nevada for all specialties, but OBGYN's tend to pay the highest premiums. That 2% number sounds suspiciously like an insurance company's juggling the numbers.

    If you're interested in going into medicine to get rich, you're just a greedy asshole interested in taking advantage of peoples' misfortune. Go to law school, instead. It takes less time. In Spain and Argentina, among other countries, candidates for medical school are spotted in the public and private schools early and invited to consider careers as caregivers. It's not a get rich and romp around in your Mercedes type of mentality. Nurses and physicians go into medicine because they want to, not because they expect to reap an early retirement and hit the links. The demeanor of the majority of physicians in the USA is abominable. Trust me on this. Every one I consulted (five urologists) about my P Cwere ready and willing to slice and dice me practically in their offices and not one of them looked at me as an individual who needed more information to make an informed decision regarding my choice of treatment. They already made the decision for me. When they looked at me they didn't see a human being with cancer, they only saw X number of BMW payments and maybe a new top liner on their swimming pools.

    The delivery of good medical care to every citizen in the USA is broken and a Hell of a lot of us are going to die because of it. Who would you rather whittle away at your innards: a surgeon who became a surgeon because of serious interest in that field of medicine or that guy who barely made it out of medical school at Columbia Med because his interests are focused on making a buck?

    I'm a very pissed and VERY EXPERIENCED consumer of medical services. I still need PSA test every six months for the next five years. Here's the kicker. The same ELISA test to check the PSA in my blood costs U$S156 -- cash -- in Reno. In Barçelona it's about the same as U$S33 in Euros. And the lab in Spain churns out more accurate results. Trust me on this. Been there. Done that. Had it cut out and even enjoyed the hospital food.

    By the way, John McCain has never had to pay for public health insurance his entire life. Think about it.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted