Health Care Reform Will Happen This Year

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, May 11, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Part of the reason I appreciate LPSG's political forum is - it's pushing me to understand more of the inner workings of my government. I like figuring out the issues and the politics of the issues as we go along.


    ABC News posted this story yesterday:

    White House: Industry's Measures Mean Health Care Reform Will Happen This Year

    Obama's Team Hails the Industry's Promise to Cut Costs by $2 trillion in Next Decade


    "In a move White House officials have called a game-changer, representatives of the major players in the health care industry -- doctors, drug companies, health insurers, hospitals, business and labor -- will come to the White House today to pledge to reduce health care costs by 1.5 percent annually over the next decade.


    The savings add up to $2 trillion by 2019, the White House said."

    --------------------

    Apparently, there's a voluntary deal going on between the Obama administration and major health industry groups to lower healthcare costs. Industry groups have made no secret in the past about their opposition to proposals for creating a national public service plan into which anybody could enroll. However, now, sensing democrats have the votes (and momentum, the public support) on their side, they're sitting at the table to negotiate.


    Or, as economist Paul Krugman says,
    What’s presumably going on here is that key interest groups have realized that health care reform is going to happen no matter what they do, and that aligning themselves with the Party of No will just deny them a seat at the table. (Republicans, after all, still denounce research into which medical procedures are effective and which are not as a dastardly plot to deprive Americans of their freedom to choose.)
    Krugman also says: "The fact that the medical-industrial complex is trying to shape health care reform rather than block it is a tremendously good omen. It looks as if America may finally get what every other advanced country already has: a system that guarantees essential health care to all its citizens."

    He ends his NYT Sunday column with the lines: "I still won’t count my health care chickens until they’re hatched. But this is some of the best policy news I’ve heard in a long time."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

    In June, the Finance Committee will release the first version of its health reform bill.

    I don't think we'll end up getting what John Conyers has been proposing in Congress since 2003 -- a universal single-payer healthcare system where the government would provide every resident health care free of charge -- but we're definately on the track to something much better than we've got.



    Today's "New Republic" column:
    Guess Who's Coming to the White House - The Treatment
     
  2. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Rah-rah-sis-boom-bah.
     
  3. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    simple math is good for common bots like this

    "to pledge to reduce health care costs by 1.5 percent annually over the next decade"

    guessing your NYT will be nowhere to be found 10 years from now calling them on that, or buying into some fuzzy math or blame gaming... or, perhaps not around at all.
     
  4. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I get peeved when people talk as if Health Care Reform were a dirty word and everything is hunky-dory in the USA as far as health care is concerned. I am one of the people who is going to FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS! I am self employed having run my own Bed and Breakfast now since 1995.
    I am currently able to purchase my health insurance at "Group Rates" through our local business association. I currently pay 740 dollars a MONTH for fairly decent health coverage. It is an HMO so it has a "service area" where you can get care. Any care gotten "out of area" can be for emergencies only.
    Well I'm in the process of trying to sell my business and move South. My insurance is NOT portable. I've been looking into purchasing health insurance "down south" as an individual. I'm 51 and have "pre-existing conditions". First, I have had little luck in finding ANYONE who will even offer me health insurance to purchase as an individual and the few that I have found were 1,000s of dollars a month. It seems my only option is to join the uninsured and if I get sick, join the foreclosed and bankrupt.

    I have hope that health care reform will address people like me. What is the Republican party offering to do to help me? ZERO>

    SO DON'T TELL ME HEALTH CARE AIN'T BROKEN!
     
  5. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Krugman is right...don't count your healthcare chickens before they hatch...

    That Didn't Take Long: Insurance Industry Breaks Promise To President Obama - Huffington Post
     
  6. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    According to the NCHC, health care costs are rose last year by 6.9%. How is cutting that to 5.4% any better? Health care cost outstrips GNP, wage and salary increases, and inflation. 1.5% is, frankly, window dressing and nothing more.

    I am not remotely impressed. American health care needs radical surgery, not a flimsy band-aid.
     
  7. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    Before anyone gets his hope up, he should brush up on the example of the mining industry's participation in the formulation of that industry's regulation.
     
  8. transformer_99

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    What is being proposed isn't a solution, they can find that much just cutting departments/services that cost these groups. Here's how they'll do it:

    Hospitals cut services, staff amid economic ills - Health care- msnbc.com

    Incredible, we all read article's about where the new "hot" jobs are and the truth is that the healthcare industry is shrinking. The staff, poorest and most at risk are now on the radar as the typical target for cost cutting. Business as usual.
     
  9. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Healthcare demand is virtually inelastic. It does not respond to normal business models.

    Put it this way and please look at the math.

    a person earning $50K will make $2 million in his life. When he gets sick, as we all will do at the end of life, he will use about $250K in health services.

    The numbers simply do not work unless we ration healthcare.
     
  10. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    We need a totally revamped system, purely for-profit healthcare doesn't cut it. I'd support a two sided system, for-profit for those who can afford or get it, and universal for the rest.
     
  11. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    funny that socialized medicine should be discussed for the USA, given the massive failure of the California Welfare State, given that it's been found unworkable in Canada, and now, even the mother of all socialisms, Europe, is having to re-think it:

    BERLIN -- Europe, deep in an economic trough, has begun a debate about how to repair its battered government finances after the crisis, sparking warnings that it will need to reduce spending on rising social benefits.

    The financial and economic crisis is leading to ballooning budget deficits across Europe. A combination of costly banking bailouts, economic-stimulus measures, and the automatic effect of rising social benefits and falling tax revenues in a recession are set to push up public debt massively in all major European countries.

    Reversing the trend and complying with EU rules that limit debt and deficits will require politicians to raise taxes, angering businesses and employees who already complain of suffocatingly high tax burdens, or to cut spending, challenging powerful interest groups, including retirees and public-sector workers.


    Europe's Social Benefits Are at Risk - WSJ.com
     
  12. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    Wow, they're having trouble because of a worldwide recession? WHODA THUNK IT? :rolleyes:

    Or you can be unemployed and get limited, and terrible healthcare. Yeah...that's awesome.
     
  13. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Oh quit repeating that old lie. Socialized health care does work in many other places in the world. It's astonishing that the Limbaugh/Hannity crowd have convinced capitalists that the most expensive system in the world (ours) is somehow more efficient and satisfactory (it isn't) than systems in other countries. Our system impoverishes people, keeps them from working, and essentially makes them completely dependent upon the government. How is that any less socialist than Europe where people can work, can pay taxes, and can get off welfare when they're well enough to work?

    Face the facts: Europe has long life expectancy, better pre-natal care, better preventative care, fewer sick days used, and it COSTS LESS than our system! Honestly you dopey Republican capitalists. Why should your company pay for benefits when the government can do it for you. Small businesses would pay far less per employee than larger businesses. Have you not even read how things are done in the rest of the world? 40 million Americans are uninsured and that number is rising every year because fewer and fewer business can offer health benefits without passing on the costs to their employees. Costs are rising faster than businesses and employees can pay. At this rate, by 2025, only half of all Americans will be able to afford employer-sponsored medical insurance. The rest will be FUCKED and guess where they'll turn when they get seriously ill? That's right. They'll turn to the government for what they couldn't get in the first place and then they'll be subjected to a humiliating system that strips them of their assets so not only won't they be able to afford to live without assistance, but all their retirement money will be gone too. What then? You want to see America filled with public housing and welfare recipients who are there only because they've been bankrupted by health care costs, then be my guest. Start building the housing now.

    But that's not the America I want nor do I believe most Americans want.

    Your view is not only shallow, it's uninformed and uncompassionate. Ultimately lack of access to good health care fucks the entire country but hard right in the ass with Quercusone's cock without lube because it ends-up costing government and business far more money in lost man hours. Stop sucking at the teat of insurance company propagandists.
     
  14. midlifebear

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    First, sorry to hear that Industrialisize will be falling through the cracks. Yeah, life's a bitch in the USA when it comes to qualifying for any buying affordable health care; especially in your 50's. Welcome to the reality of being gay and middle age in the USA.

    Second, Nick666 is blowing nothing but lies and foul-smelling air out of his ass. He's just typing from the neo conservative BIG BOOK of Inadequacies We Cannot Admit. Government supported health care works quite well if MANY countries. Just ask any German. Especially those living in Berlin. As a tax-paying resident of Spain, national health care costs are a concern, but not as big a problem as making certain that unemployment remains at 14% or a bit lower for 2009. Spain's public health care system is in fine shape -- and offers much better state-of-the-art cutting edge health care in more areas than in the good ol' US of Ayyyyyy. No wonder Nick666 is having a crisis of faith. He just pumps out goose-stepping conservative right lies. That, in itself, could be diagnosed as a disease.

    Third, "ask the man who owns one!" Jason_Els is in a much better position to criticise and point out the tragic failures of the US of Ayyyy's broken health care system. He's facing a serious finanancial burden that not only slams him into poverty, but also those in his immediate family willing to help him.

    Fourth, when countries such as Argentina or Chile can offer broken, but still better, health care to their citizens, it's quite obvious the conservative uber-rich pharmacy and insurance companies in the US of Ayyyyy have been and continue to lie to the USA public because they are driven by greed rather than offering solid, dependable health care.

    Fifth, US citiznes are forced into bankruptcy and poverty before qualifying for Medicare and Medicaid. I can arrange a field trip for any group thinking this is not true by having you all meet me in Reno, NV, where we can tour the rickity mobile home parks filled with seniors who had to sell off and spend everything they had for sub-standard health care and move into sub-standard housing where they make decisions about how much medicine they can afford and what bare minimum they'll need for basic food each month to stay alive.
     
  15. transformer_99

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  16. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    OH! ME! ME! ME! :arms:

    Get this bit of fun! I'm on Social Security, right? I get $720 a month to live on. That has to cover rent, car, clothes, utilities, insurance, and anything else. IF I receive (not even necessarily earn) anything more than that, I lose Medicaid coverage.

    In June I will qualify for SSDI however, SSDI will pay me around $2700 a month BUT the Medicaid restriction will still be in force. That means that one agency will be paying me more money than another agency allows. I have to take everything over the $720 and SEND IT BACK TO THE GOVERNMENT AS SOON AS I RECEIVE IT. Oh sure, I'll receive benefits, but I won't get to keep them. If I don't do that, and show proof that it's done, once again, I'll lose Medicaid coverage. I'm not eligible to be on Medicare (our other duplicate public medical system -- that's right, the US has two entirely different public health systems. How's that for efficiency?) for TWO YEARS. I want Medicare because it's better quality of service and they won't have any income restrictions. But that's TWO YEARS of living in virtual poverty, relying on my family to help pay my bills.

    And food stamps? I get $120 a month in food stamps. Food stamps only cover non pre-prepared food. They do not cover dog food, toiletries, paper towels, laundry detergent, dish washing soap, or anything else.

    All my savings are gone.

    All my IRAs are liquidated (with penalties).

    I'm not even permitted to have enough money to buy a coffin when I die.

    At the age of 43, in the span of 5 months, I've gone from being a public tax payer to being a public tax burden and likely will be for a long time should I live beyond the next few years.

    Had I lived in any other first world country, this wouldn't be an issue. I'd still have my assets and wouldn't need the government to take care of me for the rest of my life. I'd have my IRAs, my savings, and could even hold a flexible part-time job.

    Now which system costs you more money?
     
  17. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    A few other things too:

    If, by some miracle, you don't spend the money you get on SSI, you don't get SSI. As soon as you get a deposit, you have to the end of the month to spend every cent. You're not allowed to keep any of it or your benefits are reduced. Every bank account you have is accessible to SSI and can be audited at any time.

    There are drug co-pays on Medicaid. These are usually small amounts, but when you're on a lot of drugs, they add-up. So far this month, I've spent $45 on copays. That's a big chunk of the $227 I have left over after my rent payment of $500.

    But what about state-sponsored low-income insurance? I looked into that too. Each scheme sponsored by the state of New York (where I reside) has pre-existing condition limitations of one year. So the state policies are no better than private insurance policies except the cheapest ones cost less, doesn't include drug coverage (one of my drugs is $2000 a month at inflated-for-America-pricing), routine care, or even office visits. Since barring a cure for cancer I will never go more than six months without some kind of treatment or test for cancer, I'll never qualify for these policies even if I could work and afford them.

    Private insurance programs offered by private employers (and this is directed more at our friends abroad) also have pre-existing condition limitations which means that even if I never have a recurrence of cancer, anything cancer-related will not be covered by my employer's policy.

    This is why I, and millions like me, are fucked when it comes to insurance in the US. Get sick and it doesn't matter what your education is or what you've done. You get tossed on the sicky pile and expected to expire in impoverishment if you're under 65. The irony is, once I turn 65 and Medicare becomes my legal right, then I'm free to earn as much money as I want and none of my benefits will be jeopardized. Just when most people begin to find themselves unable to earn, I'll be expected to do just that.

    And people defend this system as workable. Amazing.
     
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