Held Responsible?

stustu

Legendary Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Posts
1,116
Media
0
Likes
1,721
Points
268
Location
Florida (United States)
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
The world has changed a lot in 20 - 40 - 100 years.
Should athletes, celebrities, politicians, teachers, and so forth be held accountable and
responsible for racist comments or mind-sets?
Two people come to mind in recent press: Kate Smith (singer) and Bosa (football draft pick).
One represents a time gone by , the other is current.
There are countless others to illustrate the question.
Comments are welcome - thanks.
 

Squirrel1

Worshipped Member
Staff
Moderator
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Posts
17,170
Media
25
Likes
13,153
Points
533
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Male
It's a tough call. Things said and done many, many years ago were quite often the norm of the day and would not have been seen incorrect. We should not try to sanitize history and hide wrongdoings of the past. We can only learn what is right or wrong.



Please excuse poor grammar...typing on an iPad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MisterB

LaFemme

Mythical Member
Staff
Moderator
Verified
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Posts
40,788
Media
2
Likes
38,876
Points
743
Location
Canada
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Female
As a minority person, I’m not too forgiving, regardless of how long ago it was. There have always been people who fought against racism, it’s just that the farther back you go the harder it was to do. When I think of the racism I’ve endured, my father, grandparents, etc. endured - it’s kind of tough to say, “well, that’s just how things were back then.” There were some, not many, but some, kind people, too going back 40, 50 years and more.

So should people be held responsible? Well, they said it. Should they be crucified for it still? Depends on their journey since then. Some only mask their continued racism better, others have really changed. Words said now mean nothing, what do their current actions say about their change? That’s what I’m interested in. Not just apologies.

At least those are my thoughts.
 
1

1345864

Guest
I would venture to say that the first three groups you named (athletes, celebrities and politicians) are almost never truly taken to task for their obnoxious words and deeds. The public gets incensed, much wringing of hands ensues, a dialogue is opened about what they said/did and then it is forgotten and they get to go back to being exalted and their stardom as if nothing ever happened.

I definitely think they should have to suffer the same ramifications as the rest of us plebeians do when they open their mouths and put their feet in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stustu

MisterB

Worshipped Member
Staff
Moderator
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
May 11, 2012
Posts
5,187
Media
0
Likes
17,915
Points
558
Location
Arlington, VA, USA
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
The world has changed a lot in 20 - 40 - 100 years.
Should athletes, celebrities, politicians, teachers, and so forth be held accountable and
responsible for racist comments or mind-sets?
Two people come to mind in recent press: Kate Smith (singer) and Bosa (football draft pick).
One represents a time gone by , the other is current.
There are countless others to illustrate the question.
Comments are welcome - thanks.

I know who Kate Smith is--God Bless America. I have no idea who the Bosa guy is. Except that he going to play football for the NFL I'm guessing. Given the parameters of your opening post, I'd like to know why those two examples? What exactly did each say/do that would cause you to cite them as examples?

To answer your question, I' that though m of the mind that one cannot change his or her past; but, like @LaFemme said so eloquently, what one does in his or her life journey after that, would have bearing on how I feel. What they do, not what they say. I'm not sure this is a one-size-fits all answer for me.
 

stustu

Legendary Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Posts
1,116
Media
0
Likes
1,721
Points
268
Location
Florida (United States)
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Mister B - to answer your question - why those 2 examples,
I read news report that Kate Smith recorded 2 or 3 songs in the 1920's which had racist language in them,
and Mr Bosa a college football player who is attempting to be drafted into the NFL with countless comments
on both his own and others social media making terrible comments about blacks-gays etc.
I found these 2 individuals in goggle news one morning - otherwise no coincidence.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MisterB

sodominsane

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Posts
1,669
Media
0
Likes
2,309
Points
268
Location
ny
I am pretty forgiving....

Anecdotally.....I have Russian parents....so growing up in cold war...Russians always the bad guys....lots of comments
Also two of my brothers are half black.....lots of comments on black side of family....lots on white side

If we couldn't forgive, forget ,ingnore.....I don't think we could have a fucnctioning family

Historically .....doesn't seem like grudge holding us very productive....an examples...Turkey ...Shia vs Sunni....former Yugoslavia....pretty much an in going settling of grudges going back centuries

Also....if our goal is to change people's minds.....it seems kinda counter productive to continue to concern someone.....for something they changed their mind about long ago

And I super don't care what a singer or football player says.....most celebrities get famous for a specific talent.....their opinions outside that talent carry little weight to me......

It would be like if Jenny mcarthy(got famous for being eye candy on a game show) started giving medical advice I'm vaccinations.....oh wait....bad example
 

AlteredEgo

Mythical Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Posts
19,176
Media
37
Likes
26,249
Points
368
Location
Hello (Sud-Ouest, Burkina Faso)
Sexuality
No Response
As a minority person, I’m not too forgiving, regardless of how long ago it was. There have always been people who fought against racism, it’s just that the farther back you go the harder it was to do. When I think of the racism I’ve endured, my father, grandparents, etc. endured - it’s kind of tough to say, “well, that’s just how things were back then.” There were some, not many, but some, kind people, too going back 40, 50 years and more.

So should people be held responsible? Well, they said it. Should they be crucified for it still? Depends on their journey since then. Some only mask their continued racism better, others have really changed. Words said now mean nothing, what do their current actions say about their change? That’s what I’m interested in. Not just apologies.

At least those are my thoughts.
This is how I feel. I can't just think, "Ho-hum, that's the way things were done!" Not when my grandmother's grandmother and grand-aunt were owned. Owned! By their own father, the implication being that he purchased a woman, and in addition to the requirement that she work the fields for free, required that she tolerate the violation of being violently inseminated, and then was just sold away from her two daughters while one was still on the tit. Generations later, we still don't know who she was, nor where she was sent. We only know her name was Anna. Well, so was her older daughter named Anna. It isn't like she got to name them. So little was thought of the personhood of these women that the second one didn't even get her own name. When my great-great-grandmother took her sister and escaped captivity, they were so poorly educated and informed that they didn't know which way was North, nor that there might be permanent freedom in that direction. They didn't even know where they were. They only knew, Anna knew anyway, that their mother had implied they should leave the plantation as soon as they could. Just leave. So they did. My great-great-great-grandfather was a damned monster. If there is a hell, I hope he, his ancestors, his siblings, his wife, and their mutual offspring are under duress there forever.

Tradition and custom are not as important as what is right, and what is wrong. Acceptance of injustice is morally reprehensible. Tolerating speech and deeds that support the dehumanizing and violation of others is indefensible. Still, I believe in the opportunity to grow. If someone demonstrates a change of heart, a new understanding, the responsible thing to do, is encourage and nurture that.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,618
Media
12
Likes
809
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
I had a lot of internalized homophobia when I was younger, and acted it out. As a young adult, I was no doubt thoughtlessly racist, and I still need to police my behaviour against subtle misogyny.

Should I forgive myself?

Yes, but only if I’m properly contrite, and do meaningful things to make amends. Lots of people demand forgiveness saying they knew no better. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t acknowledge the hurt and harm they caused.

It ain’t easy to make truthful, useful, helpful ammends for your behaviour. But it’s important to do so, as a matter of principle.