Help needed with HIV Question

[TomCat84]

Thanks! I'll make sure to get that figured out before my USMLE Step 1!

It's pretty basic bro. Youd think a med student would figure that out from day one

 

[rickygNOLA]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE. you obviously have the facts. do what you want.

 

[Infernal]

I'm negative, but my partner of 2 years is positive. If you care about this person, then go for it.

As for us, we don't engage in bareback sex. I won't perform oral sex on him due to the amount of precum he puts out. He doesn't perform oral sex on me because, well, he sucks at it. We don't share grooming equipment or bedroom toys, and we both make sure we keep up with strict personal hygiene. You can have a happy, healthy, and safe relationship with someone who is HIV + it just takes a bit of extra work, and some common sense. I also have a fantastic Dr who is HIV + and knows my situation, so I get tested every few months just for my own peace of mind.

 

[Bbucko]

Recent research has suggested that an HIV+ bottom who is undetectable is pretty safe to have sex with....and read my lips- the CDC has not recorded ONE case...NOT ONE case where someone has 100% definitely contracted HIV from oral sex- receptive or otherwise. Does that mean it hasn't happened? No, of course not- but if someone has told you they definitely have- thats bullshit.

The whole oral sex thing boils down to this: there are enzymes in saliva which render the virus disactivated (it's scientifically incorrect to use words like "alive" and "kill" when discussing viruses. They are either "active" or "inactive".

In order for oral sex to have been the vector of transmission, two factors need to have been involved: a fresh, open wound inside the mouth (as in a freshly pulled tooth) and the absence of saliva. As someone who had two molars extracted last week, I can safely say that the last thing I would have considered in the days immediately following that procedure would be sucking cock. And I can say without fear of any contradiction that I have never once given a blow job and not have produced prodigious amounts of saliva; I don't honestly see how such a thing is possible in real life.

This is a point of controversy within the medical establishment (which is rightfully extremely conservative as regards potential risk factors), the scientific community which never uses 100% certainties in their verbiage, and the HIV community at large. As some people associate a greater stigma associated with being anally penetrated than "mere" cocksucking, they will frequently deny ever having done so despite the fact that they well have done so at a certain stage in their sexual experimentation/experience. I have always been clear that the reason why I'm a non-versatile top is because of my experiences in my late teens which felt more like rape than pleasurable sex and have no interest in attempting it again.

My own infection can be one of three possible scenarios:

1) I was infected while topping; only one of the five or six (depending on how they're counted) lovers with whom I had a long-term relationship remains HIV negative, two are dead and last I heard one other was doing poorly;

2) My first lover, who was a very poor choice on my part, fucked me nearly every night for months, generally resulting in bleeding: he died from complications from an OI in 1988, ten years after we broke up. But I find it impossible to believe that I was infected in 1978 and am still alive;

3) In 1984 I brought the wrong guy home after having drunk way too much; he was much larger than me physically (I'm 5'6 and at the time weighed about 140 lbs), held me down and penetrated me against my will. This resulted in quite a heavy bleed-out and a subsequent infection and about two weeks later had the flu from hell which lasted about 10 days and disappeared as quickly as it arrived. As this fits the standard model of HIV infection, it's a safe assumption that this was how the virus was transmitted to me. I saw him in a bar in early spring of 1989 and he was obviously very ill: I doubt he survived the year.

Much of the discussion involving "immaculate infections" that I mentioned earlier in this thread stems from the highly improbable transmission of HIV through oral sex. Though it's older research, a ten-year study (1992-2002) of serodiscordant couples in Spain seems to prove conclusively that real-life infections through oral sex simply don't occur. The participants in the study used condoms for anal and/or vaginal sex but never for oral, and not a single instance of transmission (seroconversion) occurred:

In total almost 19,000 instances of unprotected oral sex were estimated to have occurred involving the 135 couples over the ten years of the study, but not a single case of HIV transmission was detected. The study authors conclude that: “this seems to point to a very low probability of HIV transmission related to this practice.”

I tend to avoid discussing this because I've been the subject of flaming and trolls/stalkers here and elsewhere simply for posting this information. It elicits strong and visceral reactions in people who sincerely believe that there are real risks of transmitting the virus via oral sex, especially among those who insist, against the scientific data, that sucking cock caused their own seroconversions.

The fact that both the NIH and CDC websites continue to list oral sex as a possible means of infection certainly doesn't help matters here any. But as I've written numerous times, both those agencies were highly politicized during the two administrations of GWBush which stressed "abstinence only" preventative measures to the exclusion of nearly any other risk reduction strategies, and led to a distrust of condoms as the most effective means of conducting safer-sex. As President Bush made his distaste for homosexuals in general very clear (promoting a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, to state the most obvious) and in his push to include faith-based organizations into HIV preventative and informational strategies, my hyperbole of saying that those governmental organizations were "Talibanized" is not entirely without justification. It's hardly surprising that faith-based organizations (many of which forbid birth control as well) would have no difficulty in demonizing oral sex.

The fact that President Obama has allowed this to continue is one of my biggest disappointments with his presidency, as is the appalling number (2158 as of July 23) of Americans currently on ADAP waiting lists who cannot get the medications required to treat their HIV:

Florida: 839 people
Georgia: 192 people
Hawaii: 13 people
Idaho: 29 people
Iowa: 98 people
Kentucky: 214 people
Louisiana: 189 people
Montana: 22 people
North Carolina: 182 people
Ohio: unknown number
South Carolina: 231 people
South Dakota: 23 people
Utah: 126 people



ADAPs with Other Cost-Containment Strategies

Arizona: reduced formulary
Arkansas: reduced formulary, lowered financial eligibility to 200% of FPL
Colorado: reduced formulary
Illinois: reduced formulary
Iowa: reduced formulary
Kentucky: reduced formulary
Louisiana: discontinued reimbursement of laboratory assays
Missouri: reduced formulary
North Carolina: reduced formulary
North Dakota: capped enrollment, cap on Fuzeon, lowered financial eligibility to 300% FPL
Ohio: reduced formulary, lowered financial eligibility to 300% of FPL
Utah: reduced formulary, lowered financial eligibility to 250% of FPL
Washington: client cost sharing, reduced formulary (for uninsured clients only)


ADAPs Considering New/Additional Cost-Containment Measures

Arizona
California
Florida
Illinois
Oregon
Wyoming

 

[BBB2.5]

Guys let's not forget what this is about...LOVING an individual....no matter.

When I was diagnosed I had less than 50 t-cells left in my body. I was very very sick at that time. I was delt some serious crap, over came all of them. I am currently on my 4th medication regimen (?) Here is sit today..healthiest have ever been in my life. I was 28 years old when I found out, today I am 45. I can tell you all from experince...If you allow this "thing" to run your life, it will win. I chose to run my life, I am winning....My biggest help???...LOVE

 

[dongalong]

AIDSThe Cure Manual | The Cure Manual

I'm curious if anyone infected with AIDS has tried Dr. Hulda Clark's treatment?

Clearly not mainstream medicine but one thing about her ideas will help for sure, eliminating parasites from the body will boost its immunity - that just seems like common sense.

http://zap.intergate.ca/testimonials.html (1.Blood, 301. HIV)

Of course it's an internet testimonial so best to keep a certain sceptisism

 

[MarkLondon]

What, AIDS is caused by benzene polution and intestinal parasites attacking the thymus gland? How insane is that? It makes Mbeki's beetroot therapy seem almost sensible. I really don't understand how people fall for crap like that. And I'm angry because it's dangerous potentially fatal crap.

From the front page:-

AIDS has little if anything to do with promiscuity and condoms. That is all total bunk and sorry distractions.

​

All you have to do is buy her parasite-busting herbs and zap device???

This reminds me of early hiv-denial groups like Continuum, which no longer exists because guess what? They all died!

 

[Rammajamma771]

NSMS18, you are misinformed. $3 is the cost of medicine provided by the US taxpayer to African nations for TWO days, but the cost of meds in the USA is between $25,000 - $30,000 per year. That is between $70-$80 per day. Most people with HIV/AIDS wind up on Medicaid (state supported charity health insurance) to afford their medicines. In other words, the taxpayer pays for the meds because the HIV+ person made the poor choice of not having protected sex. It is ignorance and the attitude that meds are cheap (yeah, they are if you aren't paying for them) which perpetuates the spread of HIV. I'm living proof you can survive the entire HIV era without becoming POS by being very careful.

 

[TomCat84]

It is ignorance and the attitude that meds are cheap (yeah, they are if you aren't paying for them) which perpetuates the spread of HIV. I'm living proof you can survive the entire HIV era without becoming POS by being very careful.

at: Oh good lord. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't the idea that meds were cheap that made me sit on a condom-less dick. I was horny and stupid. But seriously, you need to quit with the holier than thou attitude. It doesn't do us any good.

 

[joshjl]

Just wanna get back to topic.
I really hate the stupid and ignorant replies some of you are posting.

If a person is HIV+, but his viral load is undetectible; there's no way that you can get infected by this person.

Have fun, have sex, save the drama please...

I'm positive since 5 yrs; here in Holland the doctors are really angry bout the fact that the image of HIV is still that 'worse case scenario' where everybody dies in Africa.

With the right medications, you can keep the virus undetectible and your T-cell amount high enough to have a healthy (love)life.

 

[pwrdick]

Just wanna get back to topic.
I really hate the stupid and ignorant replies some of you are posting.

If a person is HIV+, but his viral load is undetectible; there's no way that you can get infected by this person.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. 'Undetectible' means less than 50 viruses/dl - so there is still is virus there but at too low a level for tests to measure. But, more importantly, it is not a measuirement of the amount of HIV in semen or in intestinal or vaginal secretions. The HIV level will be much higher in those than in the bloodstream. If there is a tear in the vaginal wall, or a scrape on the penis or bowel, even a small amount of HIV can infect someone.

 

[TomCat84]

Unfortunately, you are incorrect. 'Undetectible' means less than 50 viruses/dl - so there is still is virus there but at too low a level for tests to measure. But, more importantly, it is not a measuirement of the amount of HIV in semen or in intestinal or vaginal secretions. The HIV level will be much higher in those than in the bloodstream. If there is a tear in the vaginal wall, or a scrape on the penis or bowel, even a small amount of HIV can infect someone.

While his absolutism was incorrect, the underlying premise- that infection from someone with an undetectable viral load is quite difficult- is basically correct. I've been undetectable for 5+ years now, and have been undetectable for 4 of those years. The virus is still in my body, yes, but the virus is at such a low level that it will only be found in big numbers in bone marrow and places like that, where it's difficult for the meds to reach it.

Here are some good resources:

http://www.avert.org/media/pdfs/HIV-transmission-and-antiretroviral-therapy-Briefing-sheet.pdf

Summary: The risk of sexual HIV transmission is low for those on effective antiretroviral
therapy with undetectable viral load. However questions remain about the link between
levels of viral load in blood and that in semen. Therefore the risk of sexual HIV
transmission is not proven to be low enough to safely advocate abandoning condoms.

Sexual Encounters With Undetectable HIV-Positive Men - The Body

 

[Getting9]

About 15 years ago I met a great guy-best lover I had (sexually) but broke up after 6 months when I found out that he was doing drugs. He was a personal trainer. About 3 years after breaking up he called to see me to inform me that he was hiv+. I went for a test and waited the longest week in my life for the result which was great
news to me as we had always used condoms on each other.
Three years ago mwhen I was in his city again I visited him and he looked great -using his meds correctly but he wanted me again. We went out to dinner and he persuaded me to have sex with him again and I obligied but when he went in No condom. No sex without a condom. We struggled a bit and he promised to pull out but half way to the point of no return I managed to get his 23cms out and that was it.
I went for testing after 3 months, 6 months and 12 months and all three were negative.
Late last year he phoned to tell me that he now has cancer and when I spoke to him last month- on his birthday- it was bad news. The treatment for the cancer was no longer working and the worst is that the cancer is in the brain, speen and liver and he looks dreadful according to his mother. I really feel for him and what has happened BUT I have learn't a very valuable lesson. NO SOCK (CONDOM) NO SEX. No matter what I feel for him or anybody in the future. Should I meet a partner -long term-then we both go for testing to the same doctor at the same time in each others presence.

 

[arthur]

Okay, here's a little back story. I am HIV negative. Recently, I met an amazing guy, and have been talking to him non stop. I really like him. Last night, he confessed that he was HIV positive (we have not been intimate in any form). He was very worried about telling me, because a lot of people freak out. I am extremely appreciative of his honesty, and think no less of him because of his disease. The reason I'm here is because I need advice. I really like the guy, and I don't want this to stand in the way of what could be something very good. I want to know how I could possibly have a relationship with him, and not contract the disease. I've heard of stories where two guys were in a relationship for 20 or so years, one of them positive, and one negative. Obviously I already know about protection, but any advice that anyone could give me to ease the fears would be greatly appreciated. And please, no rude or sarcastic comments. This is a very serious topic, and I would appreciate real answers. Thank you.

Right...although this thread may have gotten slightly off track from OPs original question it has been sitting in my mind for a few days...

I was in a relationship with an HIV+ fella for a year and a half. I am HIV-. Although I add, lucky to be as I have been a cunt in my time. He had found out he was pos just under a year before we met. Personally...and I repeat that personally, this was my experience and it was not one I would be in a race to repeat. In fact I have not had a serious relationship with anyone since...and it was four years ago. You have to understand that if you are negative, and Tomcat said this quite rightly, you DON'T know what it is like to be posititve. You can't, till you are. He was not ready to accept the fact that he was positive and still quite angry with the previous relationship, from whom, from which I knew, he had contracted HIV. Or so he said?!? I became the 'whipping boy'. This is not a positition I have ever taken, nor is it one I would seek out, personally, emotionally or sexually. Sex was always affected. It always ended in 'tears' and 'drama'. All in all, and this is not the best word to use, but it was not the most healthy relationship on both our parts.

Now, there are plenty here who have given very sound sexual and medical advice, no need to repeat it, so I shan't. If I were you, I would make sure you BOTH have the emotional capability to engage in a serodiscordant relationship. Ones HIV status is not a reason to decide whether to start nor end a relationship with someone, but it will be a rather large component of that relationship. As I have pointed out in another thread my dear friend is positive, a lot of my decisions were made thinking how would he feel?! Also as I said earlier, the shoe could have easily been on the other foot. In the end, and it took a while, the reason the relationship didn't work was the boy was stupid and stupid comes in HIV positive and negative, it don't discriminate...

Hope this is of some help?!? Please feel free to PM if you want to ask more...

 

[arthur]

at: Oh good lord. Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't the idea that meds were cheap that made me sit on a condom-less dick. I was horny and stupid. But seriously, you need to quit with the holier than thou attitude. It doesn't do us any good.

Fuck me sideways mate...you talk some sense...