He's Not Black

Penis Aficionado

Legendary Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Posts
2,949
Media
0
Likes
1,196
Points
198
Location
Austin (Texas, United States)
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
He is mixed. We were students at CAL during the same time. Good baller, but as a student, dumb as a rock... that was his reputation on campus


That's what I assumed, because he has a white dude's face and a black dude's hair. But I figured that if he was white he would hold a more venerated place in basketball history, like Larry Bird or John Stockton.
 

Xcuze

Cherished Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Posts
2,903
Media
0
Likes
276
Points
303
Location
In a treehouse
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
I think this is definitely an American issue. I always thought it weird that people were making a big drama about Halle berry being the first Black Oscar winner since...whoever...whenever... when her Big White Momma was sat right next to her! I have mixed race relatives who would be called Black in America. But here(UK) they are called Mixed race - which is what they are! It just seems that everything & everybody in the USA has to be put into simple boxes for the dumb masses to understand it. Is Mixed race too hard to say?

If Obama calls himself Black then shame on him for not knowing what or who he is.
 

musclebutt2

Expert Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Posts
450
Media
7
Likes
108
Points
163
Location
San Francisco
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
Exactly. So "fully Black" describes an extremely small portion of the Black population in the Americas.

Yes, I don't think I've contradicted myself. I never tried to define "black" socially nor anthropologically. If anything, I try to avoid that quagmire.

I believe that people have the prerogative to name themselves and determine how they want to be called. That's an inherent actualizing power tied to self-identity. If I have somehow trespassed on this right I do apologize. However, it's a double edged sword. To choose a label is also to be stuck with it through good and bad; it makes no sense to be selectively 'X' in one situation but 'Y' in another.
 

marleyisalegend

Loved Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Posts
6,126
Media
1
Likes
616
Points
333
Age
38
Location
charlotte
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
I think this is definitely an American issue. I always thought it weird that people were making a big drama about Halle berry being the first Black Oscar winner since...whoever...whenever... when her Big White Momma was sat right next to her! I have mixed race relatives who would be called Black in America. But here(UK) they are called Mixed race - which is what they are! It just seems that everything & everybody in the USA has to be put into simple boxes for the dumb masses to understand it. Is Mixed race too hard to say?

If Obama calls himself Black then shame on him for not knowing what or who he is.

Again, to be accurate, we're all mixed race. I'll give you $1,000,000 if you can find me someone who is 100% one ethnicity.
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

Account Disabled
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Posts
3,692
Media
0
Likes
72
Points
133
Sexuality
No Response
Yes, I don't think I've contradicted myself. I never tried to define "black" socially nor anthropologically. If anything, I try to avoid that quagmire.

I believe that people have the prerogative to name themselves and determine how they want to be called. That's an inherent actualizing power tied to self-identity. If I have somehow trespassed on this right I do apologize. However, it's a double edged sword. To choose a label is also to be stuck with it through good and bad; it makes no sense to be selectively 'X' in one situation but 'Y' in another.
My issue was with your use of the term "fully Black" and definition of it.
100% African descent describes a minuscule subset of the population in the Americas. If "Black" is an unacceptable designation for Obama because he is of mixed ethnic and racial heritage, then that also applies to all deemed Black, African-American, etc., as we share an identical mixed heritage.

Again, to be accurate, we're all mixed race. I'll give you $1,000,000 if you can find me someone who is 100% one ethnicity.
Indeed, we, Americans and Blacks in particular, are all mixed race, and I find the ignorance of that disturbing.
 

clecle3880

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Posts
123
Media
1
Likes
20
Points
163
Location
Texas
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
No, NOT semantics. The one-drop rule and paperbag test are COMPLETELY racist in nature, in facts those tests were designed to make racism easier.

Yes, semantics. Exactly what is happening right now, playing with words to define the human condition. Trivial definitions of humans on the basis of words. So, yes: semantics. That's all I meant.

However, like I said: It is sad that we even notice.

Cheers :wink:.
 

marleyisalegend

Loved Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Posts
6,126
Media
1
Likes
616
Points
333
Age
38
Location
charlotte
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Yes, semantics.

You could call anything that requires discussion semantics. Just because you don't think it's relevant doesn't mean it's irrelevant.

I agree 1,000% that it shouldn't be a big deal. BUT, you seem like a smart person, I refuse to believe that you don't see the bigger picture here, that this entire system of race is based on prejudicial conception. The only way to break that down is by discussing it. You'd be surprised how many people had never heard of the one-drop rule until it was brought up in reference to Obama. You seem to operate under the assumption that most people are educated and already know these things.
 
Last edited:

B_cigarbabe

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Posts
3,872
Media
0
Likes
24
Points
183
Location
Boston,Mass.
Sexuality
60% Gay, 40% Straight
I think this is definitely an American issue. I always thought it weird that people were making a big drama about Halle berry being the first Black Oscar winner since...whoever...whenever... when her Big White Momma was sat right next to her! I have mixed race relatives who would be called Black in America. But here(UK) they are called Mixed race - which is what they are! It just seems that everything & everybody in the USA has to be put into simple boxes for the dumb masses to understand it. Is Mixed race too hard to say?

If Obama calls himself Black then shame on him for not knowing what or who he is.

Although I do indeed look white to white people black folks always know that I am not white. My friends still call me "blacky" and "nigga" and "high yella' gal" but unlike some of you white people who use it as a derogatory term towards us it is a term of endearment for me.

I have never identified as white or "mixed race".
cigarbabe:saevil:
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

Account Disabled
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Posts
3,692
Media
0
Likes
72
Points
133
Sexuality
No Response
Although I do indeed look white to white people black folks always know that I am not white. My friends still call me "blacky" and "nigga" and "high yella' gal" but unlike some of you white people who use it as a derogatory term towards us it is a term of endearment for me.

I have never identified as white or "mixed race".
cigarbabe:saevil:
Redbone. :09:
I knew you were Black the first time I saw your gallery.
Actually, you look just like my mom - not in terms of age, but features, coloring, smile...
 

nudeyorker

Admired Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Posts
22,742
Media
0
Likes
821
Points
208
Location
NYC/Honolulu
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I'm not a big believer in copying and article, but I hope you will take a minute to read this. One of the things that have always worked my last nerve is people saying to me that I don't look or act jewish...the same my apply here to the subject of the thread, If you don't want to read the article, at least look at the last paragraph.

Original Title: A Paler Shade of Black © Linda Beckerman, Ph.D.

The jig is up. Thanks to the genetics revolution we now know that there is no such thing as race. The Human Genome Project (HGP) has determined unequivocally that there is the same amount of genetic variation among individuals within a so called racial group as there is between individuals in different racial groups. What that means is that there is no real genetic difference between blacks and whites or between whites and Asians or between any of the so called races. Down:

Bio,
Email
Wonder why it's been so hush-hush? I mean, you would think this would be big news. Certainly on the order of Galileo stating that the Earth goes around the Sun and not vice versa. But you haven't heard it on NBC or read it in your local newspaper. It's more or less kept within the high brow community as if the common every day man in the street just couldn't take it. So you can read about it in the Atlantic Monthly or New York Times, but not your home town newspaper. And some professors on ivory tower college campuses are scrambling to prove it isn't so, just like there some who argue that Darwin was a fruitcake and evolution a stunt he pulled to grab the limelight.
See Also:
July 30, 2005 New York Times Editorial:

Debunking the Concept of 'Race'
below.

But if we are all one race, which race are we? One answer is the cute one that we are the "human race". But buckle your seat belts folks, because the genetic answer is that we are all really black. And white people are pale adaptations of black people that evolved during the past 140,000 years.

From whence does this white skin come? Weren't we all taught that it was the black people who evolved black skin and it happened so they would be protected from getting skin cancer?

Forget it. Scientists have thrown the whole notion out. Here's how evolution works. If you don't live long enough to reproduce, your genes are lost to the gene pool forever. There being no high school back when Humans came into being, females started reproducing around the age of 13. Skin cancer develops later in life when the female has already reproduced and her genes have entered the world gene pool. Bye, bye skin cancer theory.

What scientists now believe is that everyone started out with dark skin in the first place because it is protective against absorbing too much Vitamin D, which is toxic. Too much vitamin D causes calcium to be pulled from the intestines and bones and deposited in soft tissues all over the body, damaging the kidneys, heart and blood vessels. Dark skin screens out UV radiation and your body, which uses UV to produce Vitamin D, produces less of it - a real evolutionary advantage at the lower latitudes where we began.

So where did the 10,000+ shades of paler brown, beige, pink, white and what Crayola crayons used to call "flesh" come from? Archaeological data places the origin of genetically modern humans in sub-Saharan Africa approximately 140,000 years ago. Humans then began migrating out of Africa in successive waves, starting approximately 100,000 years or 5000 generations ago. Now that scientists have mapped the human genome, they are homing in on when each wave began their outward bound journey and where they migrated to. So far they have confirmed that everyone on the entire planet, even the 1.3 billion Chinese, have a common ancestor back in Africa.

For example, the first wave appears to have been a migration to the Middle East and then eastward and northward from there. Some geneticists studying the human genome map believe that in a later north moving wave, which occurred about 60,000 years ago, a mere 50 people inbred together across successive generations to create all the people who now occupy Europe (excluding recent immigrants, of course).

But wait a minute, I have blond hair, blue eyes and my hair isn't nappy and I don't have thick lips. So how can my great, great, etc grandpappy be a black African? It's all from lines of genetic inheritance splitting apart and then coming together again.

Lines of genetic inheritance, or lineages, split apart when there is a mutation that is evolutionarily advantageous, meaning the mutation makes it more likely for someone to reproduce greater numbers of offspring that survive. Someone with a non advantageous mutation has offspring that are less likely to survive.

So as humans migrated out of Africa, why did dark skinned people start losing the genetics Powerball Lottery to their paler kin? Lower UV levels in the sunlight of the more northern latitudes meant a dark skinned individual's body could not produce enough Vitamin D. Insufficient Vitamin D would then result in a child developing rickets. A child with rickets would not likely reproduce either because it would die before it could or because its pelvis would be so deformed it could not pass a child through the birth canal. Its genes would be lost forever. So lighter skin, and more absorption of Vitamin D at higher latitudes would be an adaptive genetic advantage.

Interestingly, in high latitudes where some people still retain dark skin, such as with the Inuit in the Arctic, the people obtain significant amounts of Vitamin D from eating fish and sea mammal blubber.

Seal blubber aside, what about all the other features that make us look so different? Mutations that endure are often advantageous to specific climates. For example, the tall thin body of the Masai warrior dissipates heat while the short squat body of the Inuit retains it. Long northern European noses moisten and warm the air before it reaches lungs, while in Africa short noses remain because the air is already moist and warm. The Asian's eyelid folds protect their eyes against dry sandy desert winds and wind driven snow. In the far north, light sensitive blue eyes allow people to see better when it is dark much of the year. The tightly coiled hair of the African keeps the hair off his neck so he remains cooler. All these diverse physical features promote the promulgation of different lines of inheritance, or ethnic lineages.

Countering this splitting apart of ethnic lineages is the melding through interbreeding between different ethnic lineages. If you walk the Silk Road from Persia to China, across the southern flank of Asia, you will see a continuum of physical feature change. You will not be able to tell where the European look ends and the Asian begins. Remember all those shots during our assault on the Taliban in Afghanistan and the TV scans of Afghani children? How many looked European and how many looked Asian?

Many mechanisms for melding ethnic lineages have been at play. The rape part of the plunder and pillage drill by invaders, traders passing through with silver to buy bedtime favors, marriages for political convenience to form alliances between not so friendly tribes, and the boy and girl from neighboring tribes sneaking out for a little tryst under the stars, have all contributed to the recombining of diverse ethnic lineages.

So what we have instead of the meaningless terms Caucasian, Negro, Asian, etc, is a large multiplicity of ethnic lineages, all of whom descended from a only a single black race. So don't forget, next time you fill in the U.S. Census you should write in the word Black next to the question about your race, regardless of your shade of pale.
 

clecle3880

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Posts
123
Media
1
Likes
20
Points
163
Location
Texas
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Male
You could call anything that requires discussion semantics. Just because you don't think it's relevant doesn't mean it's irrelevant...You seem to operate under the assumption that most people are educated and already know these things.

'Just because you don't thing it's relevant doesn't mean it's irrelevant'

Let me just say, that the inference that 'I don't think it's relevant' has missed the mark - the size of Texas even. That is not at all my implication. Ever. Without getting overly pedantic about it, I was making an observation at how simple words, labels if-you-will, detract from the true complexity of the human condition. Again, under the umbrella of semantics. Dismissive? No. Relevant? Very. The point? Hardly. It was simply an observation.

Indeed there is a 'bigger picture'. Of course its larger than words. I live it every day.

Cheers.

P.S. Redirect: Obama is the next president. Understand why its historical.
Embrace the need for forward thinking. What are the action items?
 

naughty

Sexy Member
Joined
May 21, 2004
Posts
11,232
Media
0
Likes
39
Points
258
Location
Workin' up a good pot of mad!
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
I have mentioned this on numerous occassions. The designation of race is one of power and none seen more outrageously than when talking about the legacy of the slave trade , and the subsequent negative consequences to the descendants of those enslaved. The one drop rule is an invention of the mostly Anglo based slavery of the Upper South here in the US. There were people of mixed race when the first ships hit these shores. As their numbers increased and they gained in status and property white settlers needed a way to control these free people of color with whom they did not want to share equality. So a labyrinth of rules evolved .

THough not using the one drop rule in the lower south with the rule of Spanish and French settlers the distinctions between degrees and designations of racial mixing was breathtaking. In places such as SC, and Louisianna there were thriving communities of free people of color, Les Gens des couleurs libres. Many of these were either descendants of wealthy WHite creole planters and their placees or others who became emigrees from the rebellions of St Domingue or Haiti. With the influx of Anglos to those regions the concept of one drop became a national disease.

Why do so many mixed people ranging from ebony to Ivory call themselves "black" here in the US at this point in time? Though people of mixed heritage have existed here since this country's inception and before it is only very recently that 1) white parents acknowledged their black offspring and 2) it was legal for whites and blacks to marry. When Barack Obama was born a mere 47 years ago it was still illegal for whites and blacks to marry in some states. For generations people of mixed race who may have even less that a soupcon of black blood have been treated to the discrimination that was accorded the very first african slave that hit these shores. THeir descendents have lived in that heavy and awesome legacy.

Color became an issue of survival. Within and without the Black community being light at a certain point for those light enough to shed enough doubt on their heritage was a way that some could shed the shackles of discrimination. But at a heavy price. For those who chose to pass there was the life long sentence of deception and even total isolation from one's family and friends with cases where childbearing was out of the question. For those not able to be seen as anything other than black there was no choice but to suffer the slings and arrows of this outrageous fortune.

I think this is the reason that one sees such resistance to biracial individuals breaking away from the Black community. Many feel if we had to suffer the problems of being black no matter what shade why should you have the option to chose. There have always been people with one black parent and one white. As some have said if you are to call some bi or multi racial then you will need to call all such. That included many who may look 100% one thing or another. This is a situation not created by the black community and one that will not necessarily be solved any time soon.

As for the initial article. I am nonplussed. I have seen within the latin community some of the deepest divisions related to color and features. I have friends who have been scarred from childhood because they were made to feel ugly for having more indigenous(indian)features or (African) features than their other family members. There are whole groups of people of mixed descent from Puerto Rico and Cuba who systematically deny having any mixed blood when to most the opposite is blaringly true. I know Dominicans who still have parents who remember the reign of terror perpetrated but Trujillo against Haitian immigrants and Dominicans of darker hue in and attempt to purge the african blood from the Domincan people.

We all are still living with the effects of the New World slave trade. No it is not pretty but in order to change it we have to face it and name it . It isnt going anywhere unless we confront it.
 

Xcuze

Cherished Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Posts
2,903
Media
0
Likes
276
Points
303
Location
In a treehouse
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Although I do indeed look white to white people black folks always know that I am not white. My friends still call me "blacky" and "nigga" and "high yella' gal" but unlike some of you white people who use it as a derogatory term towards us it is a term of endearment for me.

I have never identified as white or "mixed race".
cigarbabe:saevil:

What does this have to do with my point? My point is that if u are mixed race then thats what u should be called. Simple as. I dont know what race u are. If u are mixed race but choose to be called "Blacky" then thats your choice. But its not a true reflection of what u are. I could choose to be called Plantpot but it doesnt make me one!

To imply that all Black people know u are not white is just simplistic nonsense. Some may, some white people may also. Some wont. I myself am mixed race, my Fathers South African. I pass as white but I define myself as mixed race if asked. I dont find Black people pick up on this any more than white people do. Be true to what u are. Like I said before, I think this is an American issue. You really seem to have all kinds of fucked up ideas when it comes to issues of race. Youve complicated a very simple issue with all your prejudices.
 

musclebutt2

Expert Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Posts
450
Media
7
Likes
108
Points
163
Location
San Francisco
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
My issue was with your use of the term "fully Black" and definition of it.
100% African descent describes a minuscule subset of the population in the Americas. If "Black" is an unacceptable designation for Obama because he is of mixed ethnic and racial heritage, then that also applies to all deemed Black, African-American, etc., as we share an identical mixed heritage.

I am uncomfortable using the term "black" because it is so ambiguous. It means one thing when used by Africans, another when used within the AA community, but means something else completely when used by anybody else. It also conveniently changes meaning when applied to celebrities such as Obama, Tiger Woods, Michael Jackson, Halle Berry, Lisa Bonet, or O.J. Simpson. It means something else again when used in conjunction with homosexuality. It changes one more time whether a person self-identifies as black regardless of what they look like on the outside. And yet again takes on another different dimension when applied to the arts. Within the same conversation between two people the word can change meaning from something positive to negative, back to positive again, and vice versa. So forgive me if I don't know how to use the term "black" properly. Maybe if it didn't have such a dodgy history of usage to begin with it would be easier to apply.
 

naughty

Sexy Member
Joined
May 21, 2004
Posts
11,232
Media
0
Likes
39
Points
258
Location
Workin' up a good pot of mad!
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
I am uncomfortable using the term "black" because it is so ambiguous. It means one thing when used by Africans, another when used within the AA community, but means something else completely when used by anybody else. It also conveniently changes meaning when applied to celebrities such as Obama, Tiger Woods, Michael Jackson, Halle Berry, Lisa Bonet, or O.J. Simpson. It means something else again when used in conjunction with homosexuality. It changes one more time whether a person self-identifies as black regardless of what they look like on the outside. And yet again takes on another different dimension when applied to the arts. Within the same conversation between two people the word can change meaning from something positive to negative, back to positive again, and vice versa. So forgive me if I don't know how to use the term "black" properly. Maybe if it didn't have such a dodgy history of usage to begin with it would be easier to apply.


If you think that is confusing look at how they got to that point. First, most of the terms used to describe people of color have been externally driven.

The word Negro comes from the latin for black. The derogatory word "nigger" ironically is closer to the latin root. During slavery those with more African blood were called Black while those who were clearly of mixed race and in many cases free were called colored. After Reconstruction, people both Black and colored people's were put in one group Colored. The term black came to be a term of derision in the community. With the publication of the book THe New Negro. Black intellectuals chose to take back their own definition and the word negro came to represent people of a certain progressive thought, "Credits to the race" aka NAACP. The term Colored conversely came to represent older mindsetsThere was simultaneously a movement for pan African thought as in those who represented Carribean immigrant Marcus Garvey who brought with him a pride in his Africaness and a vision of hope for those of African descent. After the initial progress of the civil rights movement in the 1960's the term Negro came to signify a person of color who was more conciliatory while the new term Afro American came to represent a new pride in being of African Descent. The term Black came into prominence at the end of the sixties and throughout the 70's to describe a more mainstreamed pride in being of African Descent. The problematic African American came into prominence during the 80's.
All of these terms simultaneously and separately may represent the cultural aspects of the "black" community. They also may or may not represent the person's physical characteristics.

The bottom line is the colored Negro Nigger Nigga Nucca AfroAmerican African American Black are as diverse as the community they try and are asked to define. I think one of the most interesting determiners of how someone sees themself is how the person's mother sees then and helps them to navigate this morass if their parents are of different races. Obama looks Black so the way in which others may have treated him may have also given impetus to his seeking out African American males with whome he could identify. He does not have the traditional generational issues of most people of African descent found in America. However he looks black and regardless of how he may have initially seen himself he learned quickly that he needed to find others who looked like him to develop the cultural underpinnings that he needed to cope in this society.
Like it or not Mothers are the keepers of culture. SO it is not surprising that many children who look visibly black may give pause when asked how they see themselves.If their mother is not black and unless they find a strong reason to identify with the black side of their heritage through extended family etc they may not readily choose to be seen as black. However many find that if they LOOK visibly black they will have a very hard time with others of African descent as attempting to "Deny who they are". Tiger Woods still has emotional scars from childhood as to how other 'black " children treated him because he did not readily chose to exclusively describe himself as Black. The bottom line is that Blacks are NOT monolithic.
 

Scrufuss

Experimental Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Posts
538
Media
0
Likes
4
Points
103
Location
Here
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
True he isn’t all black. He isn’t all white he either. On a genetic point of view, the Caucasian race is the most recessive gene in the entire world. Every other race is genetically dominate over Caucasian. (yet Caucasians are the biggest dominant fuktwits on the planet, if you look at history, go figure). He is the most black of all the presidents that have ever been in office and that can not be ignored. What would you call him, a Mutt? Or half black, then you would have to specify the other half. Since we do like to abbreviate everything so that wont go far.
And, it is a matter of racial pride and recognition. After all we did have record numbers of African Americans registering and voting, some for the very first time in there lives. THAT in itself should same something above all else over politics, economics. So what if its dated? It’s not the only thing dated about this world.
In addition, as long as it makes those racist fuktwits from hell cringe and have a stroke then Obama will always be the first African American President. Twice in a row I hope.
I think its kinda cool, dudes.
(He’s my favorite buttless wonder. NoButtBama, personal joke, sorry)
 

dreamer20

Worshipped Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Posts
7,997
Media
3
Likes
23,780
Points
643
Gender
Male
I think this is definitely an American issue... It just seems that everything & everybody in the USA has to be put into simple boxes for the dumb masses to understand it. Is Mixed race too hard to say?

If Obama calls himself Black then shame on him for not knowing what or who he is.

What does this have to do with my point? My point is that if u are mixed race then thats what u should be called. If u are mixed race but choose to be called "Blacky" then thats your choice. But its not a true reflection of what u are.
I pass as white but I define myself as mixed race if asked... Like I said before, I think this is an American issue. You really seem to have all kinds of fucked up ideas when it comes to issues of race. You've complicated a very simple issue with all your prejudices.

The issue is not complicated. It is simply the English language usage of black as a synonym for brown as in this excerpt from Alfred Noyes' 1907 poem The Highwayman:

The Highwayman


"He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord's black-eyed daughter,
Bess, the landlord's daughter,
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair."

Hence the custom of brown skinned people being referred to as blacks, which is still current, is an example of the traditional use of these words as synonyms.