Hey! Question for the girls

[Not_Punny]

My guy and I are having a discussion, and we can't come to an agreement.

I don't think women are naturally inclined to demand and straight-out ASK for what they want during sex. I believe that women are more subtle and that guys should "pick up" on the clues. (In other words, I think that men need to spend a little more time using their "big head" and listening/observing, instead of spending so much time wrapped up in their "little head.")

He says that women should and do demand what they want, and that they should be more up front.

And I say that while some women do that, many women can't do that -- they're more subtle and guys should pay more attention.

Who's right? :tongue:

 

[Wish-4-8]

Why are you only asking the girls?

You really think that we are "wrapped up in our little heads" and that is the reason we dont get it?

If that is your logic, then lesbians would have the best and most perfect relationships then any other combination. My guess is that they are just like everyone else. Issues are issues, and this is an issue of communication.

A better question is to ask WHY you cant communicate what you want. Why is it so hard for you to say, "I want this, I like that." Is is because then it doesnt count? Its not romantic then? Are you not comfortable with yourself to say what you like to the person you are supposed to put all your trust in. What are you afraid of?

Because even if guys pay attention, we are still only guessing. And some are better at it then others. And if you are with one that doesnt get it, you have to change YOUR strategy. I think is fair if then he is willing to listen and accomodate.

And its not a question of who is right or wrong. Whats the point of being right when at the end of the day you still are not getting what you want?

 

[pcghabsy]

That is true, and yes, we men do think you should be more straightforward at times. I know guys picking up subtle hints is a turn on, but just in case they don't (sex is hard work, you see...) do prompt them along!

 

[bigdog83]

Im not a girl, nor a mind reader. Im pretty good with this stuff, but i always ask what she wants and if she likes something. if a girl is too shy during the momment, i can understand that. because sometimes i have had talks just randomly. but if u want me to play games like this, NEXTTTTTTTTTTTT lolz. its called communication. you dont have to be a pro, but just help out.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Asking other human beings to read your mind is a surefire path to disappointment and frustration.

Women need to try and comprehend that THEY have far more nuanced communications than do men. And the trouble is, its not that the men are ignoring your 'subtext'... it that they are entirely unaware what the heck a subtext is....

Its like you're signaling us to land a plane... but using an ultraviolet flashlight... Fat lot of good that is going to do for you when the pilot can't even see ultraviolet.

Men communicate directly... there is no "hidden message" no ulterior intentions, implied meanings... " I am hungry" means let's eat and that's ALL IT MEANS.

Men are generally generous in regards to their women... most men would give their woman anything they could... if they knew the woman wanted it.

Your task, ladies, is to learn that you can get a guy to cheerfully give just about anything you can CLEARLY ask for.

You are grown ups. You know what you want. Spit it out.

And if you want to play like the guy is supposed to get your "hidden messages"... then just sit the guy down ONE TIME and tell him... " look, mister, from now on...when I wear the black teddy, SPANK ME... and when I wear the red teddy, be gentle and loving... and when I wear the blue garters, tie me up! "

If you want to use 'signals'... just give us a clear codebook.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[Not_Punny]

LOL, thanks for the replies, guys, but I'm still after what the GIRLS have to say on the subject (No offense, but you guys sound just like my guy and every other guy I've talked to. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that this is the guy viewpoint.) :wink:

I'm curious what GIRLS have to say about it, because I've had this conversation with very few women, and I'm wondering if I'm actually alone in my opinion, or if I have some similar sisters out there.

 

[B_spiker067]

It is a long running popular culture joke that women don't tell men what they want in all matter of things. That women want men to read their minds.

Why should should sex be any different?

 

[Not_Punny]

Asking other human beings to read your mind is a surefire path to disappointment and frustration.

Women need to try and comprehend that THEY have far more nuanced communications than do men. And the trouble is, its not that the men are ignoring your 'subtext'... it that they are entirely unaware what the heck a subtext is....

Its like you're signaling us to land a plane... but using an ultraviolet flashlight... Fat lot of good that is going to do for you when the pilot can't even see ultraviolet.

Men communicate directly... there is no "hidden message" no ulterior intentions, implied meanings... " I am hungry" means let's eat and that's ALL IT MEANS.

Men are generally generous in regards to their women... most men would give their woman anything they could... if they knew the woman wanted it.

Your task, ladies, is to learn that you can get a guy to cheerfully give just about anything you can CLEARLY ask for.

You are grown ups. You know what you want. Spit it out.

And if you want to play like the guy is supposed to get your "hidden messages"... then just sit the guy down ONE TIME and tell him... " look, mister, from now on...when I wear the black teddy, SPANK ME... and when I wear the red teddy, be gentle and loving... and when I wear the blue garters, tie me up! "

If you want to use 'signals'... just give us a clear codebook.

Is that too much to ask?

Hiya, Phil!

YES. I agree with you. And I wish it were this simple!

Problem is, I think many girls are wired otherwise. Or, maybe I'm alone in this. I recoil from demanding/asking. I'll talk about it at OTHER times, but men usually don't remember.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I think most of the women agree with you... every woman I have ever known seems perpetually pissed that the men in their lives don't know what they are thinking like the Ken dolls she had a s a kid always seemed to know what she was thinking.


Asking women about the validity of this theory of communication is a little like asking a male gynecologist what he thinks childbirth feels like.

You are asking the transmitters if the receivers are getting the message, when you should be listening to the receivers saying, " What? Heeelllo ooo? "

We are simple.
Flags and whistles we get... flutter your eyelashes at us and we will think you got something in your eye.

You gals are standing on the street wondering why no one stops to give you a ride when you can't be bothered to stick your thumb out.

 

[Wish-4-8]

LOL, thanks for the replies, guys, but I'm still after what the GIRLS have to say on the subject (No offense, but you guys sound just like my guy and every other guy I've talked to. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that this is the guy viewpoint.) :wink:

I'm curious what GIRLS have to say about it, because I've had this conversation with very few women, and I'm wondering if I'm actually alone in my opinion, or if I have some similar sisters out there.

I am willing to bet that a lot would agree with you. There is the way things are, and the way we wish things were. But from my experiance, its the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. :wink:

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I don't think women are naturally inclined to demand and straight-out ASK for what they want during sex.

I disagree - I don't think it is natural at all - I think it is a completely nurtured behaviour. I do agree that it is the prevalent behaviour, but I don't think it is natural.

That doesn't mean, however that men are right to be direct and women wrong.

See Phil above. He sees a direct contrast in the way women and men communicate and, for an awful lot of men and women, it is a totally valid observation. His solution, though, is that women need to do 100% of the changing to accommodate how men communicate. That part is utter shite.

In any relationship, be it between two men, two women or a man and a woman, there are two people. Those people need to meet in the middle. If one partner has trouble asking for things directly the other needs to be aware of that and try to pick up on the signals - or perhaps straight out ask what is meant. If one person is bad at picking up certain signals then the other needs to work on being more clear.

Com-pro-mise :smile:

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Puny, honey... try this-

get a green magic marker and a red magic marker.

Each evening, or whenever, put a dot on the center of your forehead.
Tell him, red means stop, green means go.

And on green day... brace yourself.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

And Manly--- I am not full of shite for saying the woman has to communicate in a fashion a man can comprehend.

I am not kidding here... what you are saying is exactly like saying a guy who is Color Blind needs to TRY HARDER at seeing colors he can not perceive.

Science has shown, women layer their communications in far more complex ways than men are Capable of discerning. Their brains do not light up in the areas women's do when they are talking and listening.
And nothing we can do will change that.

Women evolved this for communicating with other women.

Men evolved to follow the mammoth footprints till they found the mammoth making the footprints.

I know that makes us sound retarded to you... but to us half of what you girls do to communicate sounds like that noise a dial up modem makes when its trying to make a connection...

 

[Not_Punny]

Holy crapoli -- I haven't had this good a laugh in a long time! (Phil, you really have a way with words!! Dial-up modem noise... woolly mammoths...green markers!!) :tongue:

Obviously, I'm going to have to go to Toastmasters to increase my communication skills. I can see me now, delivering my Toastmaster graduation speech: "Oh, fuck me hard, like that... now roll over..." :wink:

And Wish-4-8, yes.... the way things are and the way we were they were. Sigh.

- - - - - -

But, ultimately, I agree with MB.

Or am I doomed to Toastmasters?!

 

[ManlyBanisters]

And Manly--- I am not full of shite for saying the woman has to communicate in a fashion a man can comprehend.

I didn't say you were full of shite - I said your notion that women have to do all the changing is utter shite. I was very direct and clear about that and you still failed to understand it but instead read in some meaning that wasn't there. Hmmmm. Second guessing me? :tongue:

Science has shown, women layer their communications in far more complex ways than men are Capable of discerning. Their brains do not light up in the areas women's do when they are talking and listening.
And nothing we can do will change that.

Citation please? I'd be interested to read about that.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I specified that I am not full of shite in that narrow regard you cited... so who's not comprehending direct and clear? Who's imagining that I conveyed meaning I did not intend nor state?

Ah HA!


and citations...

NEWS FLASH: Men Do Hear -- But Differently Than Women, Brain Images Show
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/412256
Sleeping Men Can't Hear Babies Crying -- Sleeping Women Can - Lemondrop.com
Men Do Hear -- But Differently Than Women, Brain Images Show

please note.... we can not learn a skill our brains are not wired for...

You girls CAN learn to talk openly using simple words in simple instructions.

You are suggesting we need to do something we haven't the capacity for.
And I am suggesting you use only PART OF the capacity you DO have....

Stop demanding that a person with one arm clap his hands.
Its not only ineffective, and not gonna happen... it makes you seem cruel.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Holy crapoli -- I haven't had this good a laugh in a long time! (Phil, you really have a way with words!! Dial-up modem noise... woolly mammoths...green markers!!) :tongue:

Nothing on earth I relish more than making a pretty woman laugh.

and now I am imagining you lying there with relish...



A condiment compliment.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Women are supposed to be better communicators than men. Subtlety in conveying messages is fine between two or more women. Once a man is involved, women as the supposedly better communicators should automatically adjust their style of communication to the level of the recipient. If he needs to be hit over the head with a message, just so it. Ask for what you want in a way the would-be giver understands, or shut the hell up about not getting it. That's my view.

 

[Gillette]

Women are supposed to be better communicators than men. Subtlety in conveying messages is fine between two or more women. Once a man is involved, women as the supposedly better communicators should automatically adjust their style of communication to the level of the recipient. If he needs to be hit over the head with a message, just so it. Ask for what you want in a way the would-be giver understands, or shut the hell up about not getting it. That's my view.

This.

 

[dolfette]

i say what i like and don't like. i don't beat around the bush, i'm clear and assertive.
trouble is that, as many posts on this site prove, lots of men think they know better.
also, as soon as i'm naked the big head stops working, so instructions are literally in one ear and out the other.
i'll say something 5 times before i move to blazing row. if it doesn't improve after that then i'm outa there!

some guys are great, some guys are cretins...it's hard to predict which are which from how sharp they are outside the bedroom.