Hickboy sez...

[Guy-jin]

I have certain old-fashioned rules for myself. Simple things. Like, treat others with respect, try to defend those in need, consider the needs of the many and always avoid violence. (Note, those are my personal rules. I don't force others to follow them.) I know that I'm a worm. The sort of creature that shouldn't have evolved out of the mud. So, I think - "What have I got to lose?" I should embrace the mud and try to clear this world of it's filth. Knowing I'm this insignificant thing, that's what I do with my life. I read this thread and what do I see - intelligent people with one rule: "Look after our own." You've spread that message in this thread. You've suggested that there should be two sets of rules, one for 'them' and one for 'us' (the 'valued members'). This has been a one-sided display of 'good ol' Hickboy can't be banned - he's one of us' posts. Anyone that believed in the double-standard, bullying nature of this site won't be changing their mind anytime soon.

Firstly, let me make it perfectly clear that I'm not speaking for the 'majority of the mods' - I'm speaking for myself. In fact, I wasn't even online when all of this happened. The way I'm feeling, I'd rather sleep than deal with this. I'll try not to go into detail. Still, I have the 'guts' to reply to this post. What you've said is rubbish. You suggest that we 'fucked him over' for the sake of a troll. Wrong. He fucked himself over for no reason. Hickboy isn't stupid. He knew exactly what he was doing. We gave him a fair warning and purely for the sake of 'being Hickboy', he was pedantic and decided to find a loophole in the PM to exploit. In fact, it's because of the belief that we follow the 'precise letter of the law' that he thought he could get away with it. I'm sorry, but he went too far this time.

In the past, many members have complained that we are too soft, or too firm with people. That there's too much/too little flexibility. The truth is, we follow the rules but give everyone a chance (unless they're a spammer etc.) and don't like to ban people. For example, even though some considered it to be off-topic/harassment, we allowed the 'six dollah' stuff. Not because it was Hickboy posting it, but because it referred to a charitable donation that another member had agreed to pay. However, it was getting ridiculous and started to cause disruption, so the PM was sent. If he had stopped pushing, he'd be here now. It's his own fault, other than to be impudent - he had no reason to post that PM.

I find the attitude displayed in this thread very hypocritical. You praise us for treating one person in a certain way, but condemn us when we treat another in the same manner. "We don't like that guy - you should have banned the scum immediately." "Oh, it isn't fair that the person we like was banned - the moderators have made a big mistake!" Can you see what I mean? You're not fools. You know you're biased - you would be defending our decision, had it been someone you don't know. It doesn't matter if the person is a troll. The same attitude is displayed everytime there's a simple difference of opinion. Try to remember, everyone has friends. Everyone will be missed by someone. Define 'valued member'. No-one is untouchable. I'm not, you're not - Hickboy isn't. Liking someone isn't a good enough reason to let them break the rules. All things considered, a ban was due. He was warned. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm fair. If an established member breaks the rules, the necessary action will be taken. If a new member with one post breaks the rules, we will take action. People have spoken about how it 'isn't fair'. I'll tell you what isn't fair; it isn't fair when a confused new member is attacked for asking a penis-related question (sometimes they aren't trolling). It isn't fair when an established member is attacked by a new member. It isn't fair when a whole group of people (women, for example) are attacked by a member - old or new. It isn't fair when a friend is allowed to get away with something a stranger is punished for. Innocent people, old and new, have been victims of this sort of thing. Do you seriously think that having one rule for 'them' and another for 'us' will help matters? If that logic was applied to many of you, you wouldn't have gotten past the 'newbie' stage. In reality, you're all upset that a person you like has been banned. Well done for standing by them. But, don't pretend he didn't have it coming. Don't pretend the system is unfair, just because a friend was hurt by it. I know you all. I know you have functioning brains. That's what bothers me about all this. You understand the reality of the situation and know the truth. But, you dismiss that truth to blindly complain and vent your frustration.

Some of you sit there with your Che Guevara poster on the wall and dream of 'revolution'. Sadly, the closest you get to understanding the concept of revolution comes from watching Rambo. Any authority figures are automatically wrong, corrupt or evil in your narrow-minded world. At school, you were the ones complaining that you were getting an education. As adults, you look for every opportunity to attack the 'dictatorship'. When it works in your favour, you keep your mouth shut - when it doesn't you will remain silent until a bandwagon appears for you to join. You're no better than the ones you condemn. You don't know what happened behind the scenes, you don't know who reported what and have no right to suggest the moderators are wrong without giving a valid reason. Two people were involved. Both were warned - both were banned. Climb down from that bandwagon and think for a moment.

According to your listed location, you live in your own world. I know that isn't technically true. Should I ban you? Don't be silly. People may list their place of birth as their location. Or, they might have lived somewhere, moved and didn't update their information. Perhaps there's a privacy concern. You can't just ban people for the sake of it. Incidentally, Hickboy returned with a new account after closing his old one. We should have banned him on the spot without a second thought, I suppose. Instead, we took the time to realise it was really him and changed his name etc. Oh, how evil we are.

Seriously, I have nothing against Hickboy. However, his behaviour speaks for itself. He wasn't happy with his slap on the wrist, so pushed his luck further. When you play with matches - eventually, you get burned. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Wow. You aren't trying very hard to be respectful in this post.

Let me give you some advice, ManofThunder: When you write a post like this, read it a few times, take a deep breath, erase it, and rewrite it.

Because in this post, you are a self-righteous asshole to pretty much everyone else who posted here. You're making wild assumptions and accusations. You're being absurdly disrespectful. And you're not being overly thoughtful.

This is not the kind of post that inspires faith in the objectivity of the moderating staff here. To the contrary, any thoughts I had that you might be acting on a grudge against Hickboy are inflamed by this post rather than quelled.

As for the issue at hand, let me give you an allegory with regards to Hickboy.

Let's say you have a dog and it craps on the rug every day. Three years later, you scold the dog for crapping on the rug. The next day, after he craps on your rug, you drive him to the pound.

Let me be explicit: Hickboy is the dog. You and the rest of the staff here have allowed him to crap on the rug for years here. And then, suddenly, you decided to warn and ban him for doing the same thing he's done for as long as I can remember.

I'm not a fan of Hickboy's. Never have been. I don't think he contributed much. But to call what you did "fair"? No, I don't think that's right at all.

 

[Hoss]

Firstly, let me make it perfectly clear that I'm not speaking for the 'majority of the mods' - I'm speaking for myself. In fact, I wasn't even online when all of this happened. The way I'm feeling, I'd rather sleep than deal with this. I'll try not to go into detail. Still, I have the 'guts' to reply to this post. What you've said is rubbish. .

If you weren't on line when it happened then how can you then say that what was said is rubbish? Oh that's right, you really can't. You can say A,B and C happened in the past, you can claim that you were told D,E and F and that the notes in the moderator mausoleum say G,H and I but by your own admission you weren't here as it happened therefore you really don't know.

 

[molotovmuffin]

I'm very disappointed in the mods with this of whole hickboy vs hol/mw/bm saga.

You did a piss pour job.

 

[Patchos]

Some of you sit there with your Che Guevara poster on the wall and dream of 'revolution'.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[ManofThunder]

Wow. You aren't trying very hard to be respectful in this post.

Let me give you some advice, ManofThunder: When you write a post like this, read it a few times, take a deep breath, erase it, and rewrite it.

Because in this post, you are a self-righteous asshole to pretty much everyone else who posted here. You're making wild assumptions and accusations. You're being absurdly disrespectful. And you're not being overly thoughtful.

This is not the kind of post that inspires faith in the objectivity of the moderating staff here. To the contrary, any thoughts I had that you might be acting on a grudge against Hickboy are inflamed by this post rather than quelled.

As for the issue at hand, let me give you an allegory with regards to Hickboy.

Let's say you have a dog and it craps on the rug every day. Three years later, you scold the dog for crapping on the rug. The next day, after he craps on your rug, you drive him to the pound.

Let me be explicit: Hickboy is the dog. You and the rest of the staff here have allowed him to crap on the rug for years here. And then, suddenly, you decided to warn and ban him for doing the same thing he's done for as long as I can remember.

I'm not a fan of Hickboy's. Never have been. I don't think he contributed much. But to call what you did "fair"? No, I don't think that's right at all.

Please understand, I wrote that post - not the moderating team. I may be an asshole, but please don't think the same of the whole team. Ok, I apologise if I seemed aggressive. I'm not myself at the moment, I admit. However, I know what I intended to say and I stand by it. I was frank (perhaps I seemed rude, I didn't mean to be) because that was the only way I could see to explain my point. Many old members here have been accused of being 'bullies' etc. Reading this thread, I can see how they would think that. So, I wanted to let everyone know how this thread could be perceived. They aren't helping themselves. What I spoke of is fair. You may not like it, but any other member would have been banned for what Hickboy did. It simply wouldn't be fair to leave him alone when others are banned for doing the same thing. Isn't that logical? Again, I am sorry if I seemed disrespectful. I'm not. I appreciate your opinion (and all others). Your advice is sound, I should have reworded it. If you had this reaction, others would. I'm not judging anyone. However, certain people don't seem to admit Hickboy did anything wrong. Again, that makes the 'bullying' image look stronger. 'Us' against 'them'. My point has little to do with Hickboy and a lot to do with how this site and it's membership is perceived. I want everyone to understand that reasonable people post on this site - we're not monsters or bullies. The way this thread was going, it could have easily turned into a nasty, finger-pointing thread. To be honest, I'd rather you all massacre me rather than the whole site membership. If you can't see my point, fine. But, please consider it and don't dismiss what I said because it seemed rude.

If you weren't on line when it happened then how can you then say that what was said is rubbish? Oh that's right, you really can't. You can say A,B and C happened in the past, you can claim that you were told D,E and F and that the notes in the moderator mausoleum say G,H and I but by your own admission you weren't here as it happened therefore you really don't know.

I'd like to clarify that point. I was around - I simply wasn't here to press the ban button. I was a part of discussions leading up to that point but because of illness, wasn't there at that precise moment. I can understand your confusion - sorry about that.

To all of you, please understand - I was only speaking my mind. I am very sorry if anyone found it rude, I didn't mean it to be. I don't wish to go on about it, but I haven't been well and my writing has suffered as a result. Read my past-posts if you wish to see my more coherent self. Sorry for any confusion.

I'm very disappointed in the mods with this of whole hickboy vs hol/mw/bm saga.

You did a piss pour job.

Could you please give a reason why? People have said this, but I haven't seen any actual reasons given. Your post (although innocent) is why people will view this thread as evidence that you are all part of a 'gang' that only looks after itself. That is why I posted. I want people to understand that.

 

[aninnymouse]

Could you please give a reason why? People have said this, but I haven't seen any actual reasons given. Your post (although innocent) is why people will view this thread as evidence that you are all part of a 'gang' that only looks after itself. That is why I posted. I want people to understand that.

Because, Mystic Wolf disabled his account, it was changed to "Crystallized Ginger." He then returned with a new handle, Heart of Lion, without letting the mods know, simply to troll and bait people. Something he admitted to in chat and in PM's. Something, that apparently should equal permanent ban, according to you.

I do understand Hickie can be extremely abrasive at times, and is an acquired taste. I like him, as he keeps the trolls on their toes. Or did. I also do understand that two wrongs do not make a right, and that Hickie was not blameless in this situation, and yes, it was improper to post the PM regarding the situation to the group, no matter if only 7 people could see it. I don't agree with that 100%, but I do understand the concept of confidentiality.

However, I still do not feel that what Hickie did warrants a permanent ban. Yes, he should have received some disciplinary action; yes, he probably should have gotten a temp ban, but he doesn't deserve to be booted off the site like that. Especially when the only reason that HoL/MW et al was banninated was because he was gloating about getting Hickie banned.

Infinite Fail on the part of the moderating team. Infinite Fail.

 

[Catharsis]

Wow. You aren't trying very hard to be respectful in this post.

Let me give you some advice, ManofThunder: When you write a post like this, read it a few times, take a deep breath, erase it, and rewrite it.

Because in this post, you are a self-righteous asshole to pretty much everyone else who posted here. You're making wild assumptions and accusations. You're being absurdly disrespectful. And you're not being overly thoughtful.

This is not the kind of post that inspires faith in the objectivity of the moderating staff here. To the contrary, any thoughts I had that you might be acting on a grudge against Hickboy are inflamed by this post rather than quelled.

As for the issue at hand, let me give you an allegory with regards to Hickboy.

Let's say you have a dog and it craps on the rug every day. Three years later, you scold the dog for crapping on the rug. The next day, after he craps on your rug, you drive him to the pound.

Let me be explicit: Hickboy is the dog. You and the rest of the staff here have allowed him to crap on the rug for years here. And then, suddenly, you decided to warn and ban him for doing the same thing he's done for as long as I can remember.

I'm not a fan of Hickboy's. Never have been. I don't think he contributed much. But to call what you did "fair"? No, I don't think that's right at all.

I see the point you're trying to make, but are you proposing that the mods should have done nothing to Hickboy? Ban everyone else doing the very same thing while this one still gets away with it simply because he wasn't banned "soon enough"? I think this actually would have further perpetuated the sentiment that there exist a bias and double standards that were explained by MOT. There's no way to avoid it - you either let it go on or do something about sooner rather than later.

Also, from what I understand, Hickboy was not banned directly because of HOL, he was only warned (again) and was banned because he didn't fully follow the directions given to him.

If he were to be unbanned or place a temporary ban, then realize that you're pretty much asking the same thing for chinagirl4u2 and I'm sure many other members who were banned for the reason Hickboy was.

 

[B_Nicodemous]

Holy to the fuck..What the hell?!

Ok I was all getting ready for a nice 2 week break (RL stuff taking up much head space that really cannot be be afforded to waste on non essential things) I come here to fire off a PM to a cool friend, and I get curious and click on this.

I am sorry HickBoy got banned. I despise that it was someone as weaselly as *insert ever morphing name here* who goaded HickBoy into going a step to far. I am definitely of the mind that will look for the letter of the law loophole, as some of the other mods can attest. In the end i am still of two minds as to the Banning of HickBoy (especially a permaBan)

I didn't now the man. I think i mentioned that in this or the other thread. I found him quirky and off beat, and though he didn't post an epiphany rendering post each time, when he did it was always a breath of fresh air. His trademark "Fuck off" could be stale at times but mostly i would smile and continue to read. There was an odd comfort in that, and the banter one people got that it was (usually) not meant seriously.

I don't know if he even knew who I was or what he thought of me. Until I came back he had directly interacted with me ONCE, and then about 4 times since my return. For all I know he could very well have found me irritating or hated my guts. i don't know. Now I never will.

...

Bottoman was OK to me (just annoying). Mystic Wolf was off putting. Heart of lion was downright belligerent. I don't know the person who was all three of them. i do now that he became more spiteful and misogynistic as time went on. I was gone for three months and missed a lot of the drama he was causing the folk here (especially the women folk) but I could see it very clearly.

While I agree that there is nothing wrong with a member waning a clean slate (and MoT I expressed this opinion already) I do take issue with the deliberate deception he tried to perpetuate. He didn't have to say Italy. But to pass off as an Aussie with the (and here's the important part) EXPLICIT purpose of trying to deceive the membership here, while making attacks on people...well that's fucked. Why even place his location? Or just state Europe, or some witty turn of phrase place. I don't care. Hell, I honestly wouldn't have been all that fussed if he DID say he was from Oz..as long as he had not tried the underhanded crap he was attempting.

As for the whole n00b vs veteran...ugh, it is fucked on both sides. We were ALL new at one point. I HAVE seen veterans get special privilege that sets my fucking teeth on edge. Be they Mod or regular member. A certian thread that appeared in the Women's issues forum springs to mind.

The other side of the coin is when new people come in with the biggest case of entitlement known to man and demand that things be changed to suit them. When a person has only been here a week and is fighting wih everyone in site, and the veteran members finally snap at them..I don't see why the vet (providing they have a history if being respectful and contributing to the site) should get the shit end of the stick. Both should be warned, fine. But if someone has upteen thousand positive interactions vs someone with a weeks worth of negative bullshit douchebaggedry, well, why is the one with proven history not given some benefit of the doubt?

Sigh.

I do not envy the Mods their job. I wouldn't do it and would be horrid if i was (seriously i would be one of he rules are rules sticklers, just so that some one like me wouldn't accuse me of a double standard)

I thought MoT post was heartfelt and actually made sense. I think a lot of the opinions here are commendable, and some really good ideas for improving the site can be found in all the raw emotion. I'd like to see HickBoy back. I'd like to be present if the member formerly known as hot/mw/bm returns just to see him banned again.

I know not everyone will agree with me, at least not on all my points.

Sorry so ramble-ly.

 

[tamati]

Rules sometimes need bending.
Hickboy should have been temp banned for a few weeks or a month maybe, but not prem banned.

 

[D_Kitten_Kaboodle]

I have a question... just out of curiosity...

Can visitors, unregistered guests, lurkers, and non-members read these threads?

If so... I just wonder how threads like this appear to someone who is considering joining LPSG?

Isn't there a better place for members to air their grievances on such issues? Or do you really care?

 

[aninnymouse]

When you're not logged in, the only forums that are not visible are the questions, comments and suggestions, and the support center.

Attachments, Galleries, and avatars are also invisible unless you're logged in.

So, yeah, Questions, Comments and Suggestions may be a better place for these kinds of threads......

 

[Fuzzy_]

Who is the shit and who is the dog?

 

[ConanTheBarber]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I dunno, Fuzzy.
Gud question.

 

[Fuzzy_]

Hello, Mr. Barber. Do you work on Fleet Street, perhaps?

And a warm fuck off to Hickboy.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Hello, Mr. Barber. Do you work on Fleet Street, perhaps?

Well, yes ... and I cut hair for free.
You won't have to pay, though you'll give more than you know.
Why don't you mosey round one day, Mr. F.?

And a warm fuck off to Hickboy.

I like warmth.
And so did he.
In fact, no LPSG moth flew more often into the flame.

 

[Guy-jin]

Please understand, I wrote that post - not the moderating team. I may be an asshole, but please don't think the same of the whole team. Ok, I apologise if I seemed aggressive. I'm not myself at the moment, I admit. However, I know what I intended to say and I stand by it. I was frank (perhaps I seemed rude, I didn't mean to be) because that was the only way I could see to explain my point. Many old members here have been accused of being 'bullies' etc. Reading this thread, I can see how they would think that. So, I wanted to let everyone know how this thread could be perceived. They aren't helping themselves. What I spoke of is fair. You may not like it, but any other member would have been banned for what Hickboy did. It simply wouldn't be fair to leave him alone when others are banned for doing the same thing. Isn't that logical? Again, I am sorry if I seemed disrespectful. I'm not. I appreciate your opinion (and all others). Your advice is sound, I should have reworded it. If you had this reaction, others would. I'm not judging anyone. However, certain people don't seem to admit Hickboy did anything wrong. Again, that makes the 'bullying' image look stronger. 'Us' against 'them'. My point has little to do with Hickboy and a lot to do with how this site and it's membership is perceived. I want everyone to understand that reasonable people post on this site - we're not monsters or bullies. The way this thread was going, it could have easily turned into a nasty, finger-pointing thread. To be honest, I'd rather you all massacre me rather than the whole site membership. If you can't see my point, fine. But, please consider it and don't dismiss what I said because it seemed rude.

I didn't dismiss your point. I was pretty clear about disagreeing with it. I don't think your decision as a moderating team was fair and I don't think you've been sending the right messages about how you want people to behave here.

You guys might benefit from reading this, because I actually thought it was pretty spot-on: How To Win the War On Internet Trolls

Specifically, you in particular should see tip 7.

I see the point you're trying to make, but are you proposing that the mods should have done nothing to Hickboy? Ban everyone else doing the very same thing while this one still gets away with it simply because he wasn't banned "soon enough"? I think this actually would have further perpetuated the sentiment that there exist a bias and double standards that were explained by MOT. There's no way to avoid it - you either let it go on or do something about sooner rather than later.

There already was a double standard that was supported by the mod team for years. That's the issue. If they had problems with the way Hickboy acted, why did it take so long to get on his case about it? I mean, you're saying "either you let it go on or do something sooner rather than later," but that's the whole point: This is far later already.

Also, from what I understand, Hickboy was not banned directly because of HOL, he was only warned (again) and was banned because he didn't fully follow the directions given to him.

Again, they allowed him to behave one way for years, then warned him and banned him in the span of a few hours for that same behavior. That's not fair to him.

You see, to the moderators, the difference is the warning. But that doesn't make it fair.

If he were to be unbanned or place a temporary ban, then realize that you're pretty much asking the same thing for chinagirl4u2 and I'm sure many other members who were banned for the reason Hickboy was.

chinagirl4u2 wasn't banned for the reason Hickboy was.

Regardless, my argument is regarding consistency and fairness, which were the things MOT was claiming they are committed to, but which are contrary with regards to their treatment of Hickboy.

Perhaps in their view, that's fair. But it isn't. Hickboy's actions weren't chinagirl4u2's. Or MysticWolf's.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

If they had problems with the way Hickboy acted, why did it take so long to get on his case about it? I mean, you're saying "either you let it go on or do something sooner rather than later," but that's the whole point: This is far later already.

Again, they allowed him to behave one way for years, then warned him and banned him in the span of a few hours for that same behavior. That's not fair to him.

Wasn't he banned and otherwise disciplined before?
(My foggy memory may have that one wrong.)
You're right ... he was allowed to get away with murder for years.
And I'm sure he knew he would get banned at some point.
That's probably why he's not, we're told, terribly upset at this point.

I'll miss him.
And I think there might have been an element of unfairness here ... but not as much as people are claiming.
As examples of unfairness go, this is small potatoes.

He could of course reapply for membership at some point.
But he won't do that.
:dunno:
So ....

 

[Catharsis]

chinagirl4u2 was banned because she continued harassing another member specifically after the moderator team told her not to communicate with this other member. She infracted the limitations that were imposed upon her.

Hickboy did the same thing. Okay, so he didn't continue to directly communicate with the other party as chinagirl4u2 did, but still - there were restrictions and there was officially a line. Saying anything to or about HOL "will result in a ban for the guilty party," as promised.

Knowing all that, it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

If I'm wrong and completely misinterpretting the actual reasons for Hickboy's ban, then I apologize for making these statements. Obviously, I do not speak for the moderator team... I'm just piecing together what information is currently available to us.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Okay, so he didn't continue to directly communicate with the other party as chinagirl4u2 did, but still - there were restrictions and there was officially a line. Saying anything to or about HOL "will result in a ban for the guilty party," as promised.

Knowing all that, it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

And the argument that only telling a select and small few in a group wasn't a violation of the warning doesn't wash.
People talk.
Word gets out.
So the idea would be: Just don't put any more of this nonsense on the board.
Anywhere.
And he did a Hickboy.
He went ahead and did it.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Hickboy isn't stupid. He knew exactly what he was doing. We gave him a fair warning and purely for the sake of 'being Hickboy', he was pedantic and decided to find a loophole in the PM to exploit.

i didn't read all your bunk. But I did see this.

It's bollocks. He did not publish the pm to get banned nor to exploit a loop hole - he had not yet decided what to do. You can believe me or not - he didn't. End of story.