Highly Controversial Topic

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by stud_hunter, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. stud_hunter

    stud_hunter New Member

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    I was watching the news today, which I'll admit I rarely do, and they were talking about Hurricane Katrina. Now, back when the storm hit I remember watching the news and having this feeling: Doesn't it seem that a lot of the families they showed in shelters had far more kids than they could apparently afford? In general, the world is becoming really overpopulated, and you can see it affecting the environent but also contributing to poverty. But you never hear overpopulation talked about, and I wonder if that's because of religion. So my feeling is the world needs more birth control! And the controversial part is I have a hard time having too much sympathy for the Katrina refugees who are poor but have 7 children when they could have had 2. Thoughts?
     
  2. B_Hickboy

    B_Hickboy New Member

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    How many children do YOU have?
     
  3. stud_hunter

    stud_hunter New Member

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  4. faculae

    faculae New Member

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    Hi Stud-Hunter,

    actually it's quite the opposite. Population in 1st world nations has leveled off. The US has slowed considerably in terms of population growth in the last 25 yrs or so. The only reason we continue to see a higher rate of population is because of immigration. If we stopped immigration the US would essentially remain constant. Japan on the other hand has seen population decrease for a number of years.

    3rd world nations often have high birth rates, but acceptable population growth because of a high death rate before the age of 5. Otherwise, transition nations such as India are presently the problem because they have a 3rd world mentality, but are rapidly getting better at keeping children alive. People are still having kids expecting half of them to die early, but they often live with modern medicine. India is facing over population. China has passed legislation to prevent over population. Each couple can have only one child.

    Per your Katrina observation: Yes, I agree. Because of the nature of the disaster, people of meager means stayed in the city. The folks you saw in the shelters are typically very poor, and could no escape on thier own. As we all know the poor often partake of welfare. The US welfare system is a problem and is highly favorable to those who have many children. The more kids you have the more money you get. That is where the problem lies. We need to reform welfare into an incentive program that is designed to get people off of welfare, not allow them to seek more money by making more babies.

    Lastly, there isn't any real compelling evidence presently to support the claim that the world is headed toward over population. In fact, that claim is an old one that was of concern about 3 decades ago. It has since become antiquated ideology of the Carter years; much like conserving electricity.

    ... my two cents

    - Faculae
     
  5. quercusone

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    Not having sympathy for someone who has lost everything and is trapped in conditions no human should have to live in, just because you think they have too many kids, is wrong. Do you really mean you have no sympathy for them? Overpopulation and/or having more kids than you can support is certainly a valid issue. But given the circumstances these people were and still are in, I think other issues get put on the back-burner. These people having too many kids did not cause Katrina!
     
  6. baseball99

    baseball99 New Member

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    i think she was saying she didnt feel bad the people were in the financial situation they were in and they had more kids than they could support.....not that she didnt feel bad they were in that sitation of the hurricane

    we see it all too often.....great grandma is in her 50s, grandma in her late 30s, mom is a teenager and the baby.....
     
  7. Hatched69

    Hatched69 Member

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    Same thing can be found in any city in the US. Just happens Katrina exposed more of N.O. and other cities than most people are aware of.
     
  8. lordduzi

    lordduzi Member

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    Lastly, there isn't any real compelling evidence presently to support the claim that the world is headed toward over population. In fact, that claim is an old one that was of concern about 3 decades ago. It has since become antiquated ideology of the Carter years; much like conserving electricity.

    ... my two cents

    - Faculae

    Actually the idea that we are reaching overpopulation has been around for a couple of hundred years, but we always seemed to find new ways of growing more food than previously thought. A good example is the steel plow that allowed the "Great American Desert" to be farmed giving rise to Iowa and Nebraska. And the idea of conserving electricity is just a start, think on this, the United States with just 5% of the world's population consumes 25% of the world's resources. China with 16% (1 billion of 6 billion humans) consumes far less, and their demand for steel and other resources is already driving those prices higher and higher. The idea that conservation is antiquated is living for the now, without care or consideration of the future. A future that with longer and longer lifespans each of us could see more of!
     
  9. jeff black

    jeff black <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Last I heard, there were still quite a few countries who had an increased population growth. China pops to my head almost instantly.
     
  10. stud_hunter

    stud_hunter New Member

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    To be quite honest, I think you're living in a dream world. There are almost twice as many people in the world as 40 years ago. There are 2 billion more people than 20 years ago. So I'm not sure where you get your idea that population increase and overpopulation isn't a problem.

     
  11. quercusone

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    Her words...???
     
  12. stud_hunter

    stud_hunter New Member

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    I'm not sure what you were reading. I said I "have a hard time having too much sympathy for them", so I won't respond to your comments about having "no" sympathy for them since that is not what I said.
    Of course one has to have sympathy for someone who lost their home, and I have sympathy for people who are poor as well. Of course having too many kids didn't cause Katrina but lots of people made it through Katrina relatively fine. I read that a lot of the people who got stuck in the Superdome and in shelters couldn't get out because they couldn't afford to. If they'd had fewer children perhaps they wouldn't be quite so poor. Then I also heard some families stayed because they had too many kids to fit in the one family car. I'm not saying forget about them, I'm just saying with all the government gets blamed for Katrina we should also be holding people responsible for putting themselves in that situation. As a side note, like someone said, a lot of these families with 5, 6, 7 kids are being paid for by all of us through welfare. And I don't feel the need to be politically correct on this issue because I grew up lower-middle class and I think if my parents had had 7 kids instead of 3 we would have been on welfare too.
     
  13. faculae

    faculae New Member

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    If you read what I wrote carfully, I said that we are not headed toward over population. Yes, there may be more people. That isn't necessarily bad. The point I am making is that the more educated people become the less babies they make. American is not part of the over populaton problem, 3rd world countries are. So to claim victims of Katrina as part of this problem is convoluded.

    Secondly, as far as conserving electricity and such. I understand the argument of conservation on a global scale. I agree with it. The inertia of the present commercial situation in America forces us to continue to use oil to make energy because that is what the infrastructure relies on. When we no longer have that luxury another industry or means to create power will become available. There are already tons of alternatives, there just isn't enough capital or marketing available, yet, to make them viable. All and all, American energy usage is not a horrible thing.

    I was taking a stance toward the paradigm that has become known as 'Katrina' and commenting on the initial post. If you wish to open this up to a broad discussion of global concern, maybe we should start a new thread. I would be very willing to participate.
     
  14. Mr. Snakey

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    Right again studhunter The more kids the bigger the wefare check Thats the biggest problem as far as the population growth
     
  15. stud_hunter

    stud_hunter New Member

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    I think there were 2 main points I was trying to suggest. One is that on a global scale, population growth is a problem. And I don't think I agree that America's population is only going up because of immigration. Some immigrant communities have high birthrates for generations.
    The 2nd point was about Katrina, and I'm not saying the people in New Orleans are responsible for all of population growth. I'm just saying if we're going to search for blame about who's at fault for their situation we should at least talk about the fact that some of them had their situation be a lot worse because they have more kids than they can afford.
     
  16. faculae

    faculae New Member

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    To back this up some. America only has population growth because of immigration. This is a statistical fact. It is not a matter of personal opinion or belief. It is a measurment our government has taken on its inhabitants. It does so every 11 years or so and has proof that this is the present case.

    As far as personal responsibility in terms of foresight into one's problems, ie too many children, I agree with you. People are stupid. I agree that a line needs to be drawn somewhere in regard to when the governement and its people are responsible for an individual's oversight. Maybe Katrina will help that along. Maybe not.

    Do I think we should be paying for someone who cranked out 7 kids? No, I don't. No less the law is the law. It says that we are bound to help and that these people are entitled to our support in lieu of an emergency.
     
  17. Mr. Snakey

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    Yes If a women starts on wefare with one kid The more kids she has The bigger the check becomes.
     
  18. rob_just_rob

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    Sean Nelson once sang that "only stupid people are breeding".

    Change "stupid" to "poor" and I think he's bang on.
     
  19. Hatched69

    Hatched69 Member

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    Ladies and gents:
    May I introduce: our latest candidate for the Presidency!!!!
     
  20. b.c.

    Gold Member

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    Hmmm. think I'll file this one in that "circular" file marked "not worthy of comment".
     
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