Hillary clinton cares nothing for democracy

[HazelGod]

This is nothing anecdotal, nor reported from a newswire or any third party. This happened to me, this very day.

As someone who attended the primary caucuses here in Texas, my wife was selected as a democratic county convention delegate. During the caucus, each person wrote out their name, voter registration number, contact info, and choice of candidate...in her case, Barack Obama. This information is in the public record. Only this week has the local party chosen delegates from the various precincts to attend the county convention this Saturday. The list of delegates selected is also in the public record.

Today, we received a pre-recoded telephone call from an 877 number at my house from the Hillary Clinton campaign, reminding us that we were not bound to actually vote for the candidate we had chosen during the caucus and urging us to support her for president at the convention this weekend. When I dialed the number, it went directly to a voice mailbox which told me I could leave my number if I wanted it removed from their list. They would be happy to do so, when time permits.

At the time of the call, my wife was actually at a party preparatory meeting where the delegates were being instructed in the processes for this weekend's conventions...when I told her about this call, she was unsurprised as most of the Obama delegates in her meeting had already received similar calls from Clinton's campaign and were sharing their tales.

So, all my beliefs about Hillary have been confirmed firsthand: She is nothing more than a completely self-serving liar who will go to any length to further her aspirations to power, regardless of the rules that she bends or the damage she does to the democratic ideals or the political institutions she supposedly cares for and claims to represent. She is the last person I want anywhere near the Oval Office.

 

[D_O_Revoir]

Dude, no offense, but if you aren't cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

I'm confused.

You do the caucus and then a month later you go to a local/county convention to record the delegate vote (officially?)

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

This is nothing anecdotal, nor reported from a newswire or any third party. This happened to me, this very day.

As someone who attended the primary caucuses here in Texas, my wife was selected as a democratic county convention delegate. During the caucus, each person wrote out their name, voter registration number, contact info, and choice of candidate...in her case, Barack Obama. This information is in the public record. Only this week has the local party chosen delegates from the various precincts to attend the county convention this Saturday. The list of delegates selected is also in the public record.

Today, we received a pre-recoded telephone call from an 877 number at my house from the Hillary Clinton campaign, reminding us that we were not bound to actually vote for the candidate we had chosen during the caucus and urging us to support her for president at the convention this weekend. When I dialed the number, it went directly to a voice mailbox which told me I could leave my number if I wanted it removed from their list. They would be happy to do so, when time permits.

At the time of the call, my wife was actually at a party preparatory meeting where the delegates were being instructed in the processes for this weekend's conventions...when I told her about this call, she was unsurprised as most of the Obama delegates in her meeting had already received similar calls from Clinton's campaign and were sharing their tales.

So, all my beliefs about Hillary have been confirmed firsthand: She is nothing more than a completely self-serving liar who will go to any length to further her aspirations to power, regardless of the rules that she bends or the damage she does to the democratic ideals or the political institutions she supposedly cares for and claims to represent. She is the last person I want anywhere near the Oval Office.

Her campaign is all over the place. Just imagine how schizophrenic her administration would be.

What sickens me is that if you're getting phone calls like that - you know she is going to do the same kind of shenanigans at the DNC.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

Dude, no offense, but if you aren't cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

Tell that to Spitzer.:wink:

 

[amhersthungboi]

Just to reply to the title of the thread: Remember, it was the Obama camp that broke down talks in Michigan and Florida to allow those states to have a voice in the process. His claim -- you need to follow the rules.

The rules of the DNC also state that a pledged delegate is not obligated to vote for anyone.

So, the moral of the story: Obama cares nothing about the democracy of Florida and Michigan because that's the rules, but BE DAMNED if someone else want to play by the letter of the rules.

 

[VeeP]

I'm convinced she (they) will burn down the house before it's over. But, how do we know the Obama campaign isn't also making calls?

 

[HazelGod]

I'm confused.

You do the caucus and then a month later you go to a local/county convention to record the delegate vote (officially?)

That's correct, sort of. The party delegates awarded from the caucuses aren't official until the Texas state convention is held on June 6th & 7th. The caucuses (technically called precinct conventions) that were held on the same day as the primary election was the first step in the process. The county party conventions this weekend are the next step...this Saturday, delegates from each precinct will caucus again, and will select delegates to go on to the state convention in June. From that meeting, Texas will select 67 delegates to attend the Democratic National Convention in Denver along with the 126 delegates chosen by the primary election.

 

[HazelGod]

Just to reply to the title of the thread: Remember, it was the Obama camp that broke down talks in Michigan and Florida to allow those states to have a voice in the process. His claim -- you need to follow the rules.

The rules of the DNC also state that a pledged delegate is not obligated to vote for anyone.

So, the moral of the story: Obama cares nothing about the democracy of Florida and Michigan because that's the rules, but BE DAMNED if someone else want to play by the letter of the rules.

Neither Obama, nor Clinton for that matter, are in any way responsible for the situation of the voters in Florida or Michigan, nor are they responsible for rectifying same. It's a state and party matter. The consistent mantra coming from the Obama campaign is that they will abide by any decision of the DNC. End of story. To assert that either candidate does or doesn't care about democracy based on those states is the height of willful ignorance.

In any case, it's really not comparable to Clinton directly requesting delegates to subvert the will of those they have been selected to represent. It's undemocratic, it's dirty...and it's precisely what I should have expected from Hillary Clinton, the liar.

 

[amhersthungboi]

The consistent mantra coming from the Obama campaign is that they will abide by any decision of the DNC. End of story.

In 1982 the DNC decided "pledged" delegates would not actually be pledged, but could exercise their best judgement. That's the decision of the DNC. End of story.

 

[wi_sugargrl]

And this surprises you? She's going to do anything and everything, no matter how unethical, to get those votes! I got 2 phone calls from her campaign and I'm a fucking REPUBLICAN!!! A republican, however, who is supporting Obama :biggrin1:.

Sugar

 

[LeeEJ]

I started saying last fall that the 2008 race will be the Democrats' to lose. That is, the only way they won't put a Democratic nominee in the White House is if they screw it up somehow. The next presidency is theirs for the taking... as long as they don't self-destruct on the way there.

I can't believe it, but it might actually come true. They might blow it.

 

[HazelGod]

In 1982 the DNC decided "pledged" delegates would not actually be pledged, but could exercise their best judgement. That's the decision of the DNC. End of story.

Nice out-of-context quote. What's your fucking point, douchebag?

 

[amhersthungboi]

Nice out-of-context quote. What's your fucking point, douchebag?

Again with the name calling hey?
It is hypocritical for the Obama camp to follow the letter of the DNC rule regarding MI and FL, then to bitch about the DNC rule regarding pledged delegates.

If Obama is truly worthy of the presidency, he shouldn't have any problem keeping his delegates, right?

 

[HazelGod]

It is hypocritical for the Obama camp to follow the letter of the DNC rule regarding MI and FL, then to bitch about the DNC rule regarding pledged delegates.

If Obama is truly worthy of the presidency, he shouldn't have any problem keeping his delegates, right?

Pay attention, shortbus...the Obama campaign hasn't "bitched" about Hillary's dirty-ass dishonest tactics of trying to steal delegates. *I* was personally bitching about it based on the phone call we got today.

If you want to try to defend the technical legality of your dishonest cunt of a candidate's tactics, be my guest...but don't try to paint Barack Obama with the same shitstained brush.

 

[amhersthungboi]

Pay attention, shortbus...the Obama campaign hasn't "bitched" about Hillary's dirty-ass dishonest tactics of trying to steal delegates. *I* was personally bitching about it based on the phone call we got today.

Actually, they just were on CNN, saying is subverts democracy. Care about democracy so much, and afraid DNC rules might be counter to democracy? Then do everything in your power (Obama) to count the MI and FL votes.

You must see the analogy to the MI/FL debacle ... seeing as you are calling others shortbus.

 

[Flashy]

well, either way, by the time this whole shit throwing fest is over, the two sides will have alienated the other's base so badly, and made each other look so bad, that they will have done all the Republicans dirty work/campaining for them...

Right now, McCain is criss-crossing the world, meeting with foreign dignitaries, running a virtual "rose garden" campaign, and he doesn't even have the Rose Garden yet. He is above all the mudslinging for now, since he is a lock for the nomination, so the only time that will happen is in the relatively short window between August and November...he has been given all his ammo against either candidate

He gets to look presidential and dignified and "above it all" for the next 5 months while the dems rip into each other even more.

The bad blood is so palpable between these two candidates' base, that already polling is showing that 28% of Hillary supporters will vote for McCain if Obama wins, and 18% of Obama supporters will vote for McCain instead of Hillary.

Even if that number is overstated, let's say by double (14% and/or 9%) that is more then enough to give McCain victory...

boy the dems are really screwing this one up...it was their election to lose... and it looks like they are doing that so far...or at least trying to.

frankly, i hate both parties. :smile:

 

[HazelGod]

Actually, they just were on CNN, saying is subverts democracy. Care about democracy so much, and afraid DNC rules might be counter to democracy? Then do everything in your power (Obama) to count the MI and FL votes.

You must see the analogy to the MI/FL debacle ... seeing as you are calling others shortbus.

Actually, there is no valid analogy. It's not his, nor her, responsibility to fix what those states fucked up. In fact, either candidate advocating any specific plan to do so would be guilty of operating in the most serious conflict of interest. I feel I've been very clear on this point. The fact is, you're not even coming close to anything resembling a comparable situation.

Such intellectual dishonesty from a Clinton supporter, however, is utterly unsurprising.

 

[amhersthungboi]

the Obama campaign hasn't "bitched" about Hillary's dirty-ass dishonest tactics of trying to steal delegates.

Watch CNN, the story is running every so often.

 

[HazelGod]

Watch CNN, the story is running every so often.

You mean like this one?

Obama camp reaching out to Florida, Michigan Democrats Posted: 01:32 PM ET
(CNN) – Representatives with Barack Obama's presidential campaign have reached out to Michigan and Florida Democrats to begin a "dialogue" about how to seat the delegations at the nominating convention that will be held in Denver later this summer.
“As we’ve said consistently, we think there should be a fair seating of the Michigan and Florida delegates. The Clinton campaign has stubbornly said they see no need to negotiate, but we believe that their Washington, my-way-or-the-highway approach is something voters are tired of,” Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said.

Or perhaps you were thinking of this one?

...the Democratic Party altered a provision that required pledged delegates to support the candidate they had arrived at the convention to back.

Clinton advisers have cited the altered rule, which dates to 1982 and says only that pledged delegates "shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them."


The same year, The Democratic Party created a new category of delegate -- the so-called "superdelegates" -- party leaders and elected officials who are free to support any candidate they wish, regardless of vote totals in their home states.

Maybe one could argue that her disgusting behavior doesn't technically violate the letter of the rule, but it definitely runs counter to its intent as well as to the notion of a democratic process in general.

But here's my favorite quote from that piece:

The Clinton campaign has said that they had not been planning to try to actively convince the Illinois senator's pledged delegates to switch sides and would not do so in the future.

But on a conference call with reporters Tuesday, Ickes defended Clinton's Monday remarks and repeated his view that pledged delegates were free to switch their allegiance at any time.

As the call I received today proves once again, HILLARY CLINTON IS A LIAR.