Hillary Is In

sunnyside4lyfe

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Ok, i must admit I'm not the most political person but I have a teacher who informed me that Hillary pulled quite a few strings behind tha watergate scandal and she's also had numerous affairs with other women. Now, I know ur askin how in the hell would I or my teacher know this, well he is a retired US Marshall who was assigned to duty to "protect" them during the watergate scandal
 

kalipygian

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Ok, i must admit I'm not the most political person but I have a teacher who informed me that Hillary pulled quite a few strings behind tha watergate scandal and she's also had numerous affairs with other women. Now, I know ur askin how in the hell would I or my teacher know this, well he is a retired US Marshall who was assigned to duty to "protect" them during the watergate scandal

Watergate was Nixon, Hillary was in college then, you sound so credible.

(do I smell another troll?)
 

B_big dirigible

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Watergate was Nixon, Hillary was in college then, you sound so credible.

(do I smell another troll?)

Not a troll at all. That stuff is hanging here, ready to fall on her head in the perfect shitstorm. I doubt that any of it is particularly important in anything but PR terms, but it's real and it's coming back. Along with all that stuff about pardons from Bill for sale - in the next few years we're going to hear far more about Marc Rich, Hillary's brother, Edgar Gregory (whose larcenous propensities have landed him in the news again), and those FALN members than we can stand - and looting the White House when departing. The country was suffering from Clinton Fatigue when they left, so none of it was pursued. But it's still there, and I suspect that there will be some serious attempts to make her answer for it. I don't see any chance of it not being a major deal in the campaign.
 

Rikter8

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That stuff is hanging here, ready to fall on her head in the perfect shitstorm. .

Kind of like the Republicans Decision to go to war for Oil.. uh...I mean Weapons of mass destruction...yea...thats it....

Id rather have shit falling on my head than having to own up to over 6000 innocent deaths all for a silver lining.
 

tripod

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Hillary Clinton is BRILLIANT and HARD AS A ROCK... she would make an EXCELLENT president. That said... I live in the bible belt, so I am sorrounded by people with an innane hatred for this woman that can't even be put into words!!!! people just hate that chick... and usually for no real reason (there are many conservative members on this site that are well schooled in Hillary). I am FRIGHTENED of Hillary AND Barak OBama, simply because the South is runnin' the country and they are not gonna have ANY of a woman or a black man for president... they are sooo hateful down here. It's VERY troublesome, and I hope that John Edwards wins the nomination, or that Al Gore throws his hat in the ring at the last minute... my heart is with Dennis Kucinich though! Hillary is "devoid of tha funk", so that irritates the shit out of me that such a funky dude could marry such a stiff, but Oh well!
 

felix20

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For anyone doubtful about Obama's experience, just take a look at the fact that he graduated top in his class from Harvard Law, and taught at the University of Chicago's law school for a couple of years. The man knows all about the government. If you're worried about his foreign policy experience, consider the fact that he's actually lived outside the United States for a few years. I'd trust Obama any day.
 

tripod

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Obama is an AMAZING candidate!!!! he will just bring every rascist white man and woman out of the woodwork to vote against him, it is fucking sad... white people are soooo lame!!!!!!!
 

amhersthungboi

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I said this in my thread about what's wrong with the Democratic party, but here it is again:

I don't think either of the leading candidates, Hillary or Obama, are electable. Both brilliant, both good leaders, both excellent speakers, and both lightning rods for what the Republicans do best: Fear-based campaigning to the lowest common denominator.

The Republican's failure (God bless it) in the 2006 election was wide spread corruption, and the failure to distance themselves from Bush. They lost many individual, small races due to many small, individual failures and stupid actions. However: (1) Bush is OUT in 2008, meaning the Republicans can campaign for a "fresh start" just as much as the Dems can ... with the advantage that everything that goes wrong from now until 2008 can be pinned on the Dem Congress. (2) The prez campaign gives a central focus to campaigning. All they have to do is run one (albeit very large) campaign quite well. Congress will follow on the coattails of the new prez.

So once again I ponder ... what's wrong with the Democratic party? Don't they understand the concept of ELECTABILITY? Genius doesn't win (if it did, Gore or Kerry would be president, and Hillary would be choosing the presidential china rather than worrying about a campaign). Being a "good ole boy" who the average American voter relates to DOES matter.

Let's face it. Democrats already have the female vote. Hence, Hillary's gender will not attract the female vote, as the Dems typically have it. Nor will she attract the liberal-minded social change vote, the Dems already have it. However, tragically, her gender will send some conservative Democrats (look at the Montana senate race) running for the hills.

Obama's race will not attract the Black vote, as the Dems typically have it. Nor will he attract the liberal-minded social change vote, the Dems already have it. However, tragically, his race will send some conservative Democrats (look at the Montana senate race) running for the hills.

Who will win? Let's look at the past eight presidential elections, and population change patterns in the US.
1.) Southern or Western
2.) Moderate to moderately conservative (Clinton was brandished as an ultra-liberal to smear him; he was actually quite moderate, or even moderately conservative).
3.) Middle-aged
4.) White
5.) Male

I'm not saying I agree with those trends. I am saying, however, that the Dems need to get the presidency back, and doing that means "playing the game". Right now, as sad as it is, the best candidate for the game is Edwards.

And that's why I ask "WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?!"

(On that note, if I could choose any Democrat for president, it would probably be Pelosi. That said, if she did run she'd be crucified).
 

tripod

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You are THAT well versed in American politics and you live in Australia? Wow!!!!!!
 

Matthew

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I still don't believe the fact that Hillary and Obama are running can fairly lead to the question, "What's wrong with the Democratic Party?" The Party doesn't decide which candidates will and won't run.
 

dreamer20

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Hillary or Obama, ...Both brilliant, both good leaders, both excellent speakers, and both lightning rods for what the Republicans do best: Fear-based campaigning to the lowest common denominator.

That type of campaining may have been best when Bush and co. were popular but if the Reps. head down that path again they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

The Republican's failed to distance themselves from Bush and widespread corruption. They lost many individual, small races due to many small, individual failures and stupid actions...
With the Bush adminstration having the lion's share of stupid actions.


However: (1) Bush is OUT in 2008, meaning the Republicans can campaign for a "fresh start" just as much as the Dems can ... with the advantage that everything that goes wrong from now until 2008 can be pinned on the Dem Congress...
I think that Dubya is a more attractive scapegoat. The Reps. should force him to resign otherwise their campaign for a "fresh start" won't be taken seriously.

Brilliant, both good leaders, both excellent speakers...
Democrats already have the female vote.., the liberal-minded social change vote, the Black vote, ....
Bearing those positive points in mind and if voters disgruntled with the current adminstration are factored in it appears that Obama and Hillary would do well if the nation truly wants a "fresh start" IMO.
 

amhersthungboi

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Bearing those positive points in mind and if voters disgruntled with the current adminstration are factored in it appears that Obama and Hillary would do well if the nation truly wants a "fresh start" IMO.

I hope you're right, but I don't have that much faith in most of the country (i.e. the perpetual red states). Although I'm all for a female president or a Black president (perhaps what the country really needs is a Black Jewish Lesbian), I think the candidate that has the best chance of winning is going to be your typical WASP. Not saying I like it, but at this point the Dems' top priority should be taking the White House. After all, if we lose this one you can be your ass civil liberties in the US will continue to take a nose dive.
 

Sklar

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For anyone doubtful about Obama's experience, just take a look at the fact that he graduated top in his class from Harvard Law, and taught at the University of Chicago's law school for a couple of years. The man knows all about the government. If you're worried about his foreign policy experience, consider the fact that he's actually lived outside the United States for a few years. I'd trust Obama any day.


There's a saying in the sales industry:

Those that can, do.

Those that can't, teach.

There is a big difference between book studies and real world. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that he is in an elected postion but I just don't think he is experienced enough to be a viable President.

So between him and Hillary, for me, it's Hillary all the way.

My preference is for him to get seasoned in the office he holds and then run in either 2012 (if the Republicans win again) or in 2016 when the then Democratic President can't run again.

It's amazing that you think graduating at the top of the class makes him qualified. President Bush graduated at or near the top of his yet people seem to forget that while spouting that John Kerry graduated from that same school with a lower G.P.A. than President Bush yet is better qualifed because of that.

That has never made any sense to me.
 

Big Don

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While she may be qualified, Hillary is just too divisive to win a national election. As has been mentioned on this thread, she comes to the dance with too much baggage and an image problem, not to mention the number of people in this country that simply hate hillary and would vote for a dead dog before voting for her.

If we're trying to handicap the '08 race now, we need to look to the past presidential primary elections. The early front-runner (Hillary Clinton in most [if not all] polls) normally does not get the nomination (most recent example: Howard Dean).

New Hampshire and Iowa are going to be interesting hurdles for Hillary. Given the set of circumstances that exist in this race as of the present moment, 2008's Democratic caucus should look like the 1992 Democratic caucus. A politician from Iowa ran/is running in both races (Sen. Tom Harkin in 1992 and Gov. Tom Vilsack in 2008). In 1992, Senator Harkin won the caucus. Bill Clinton only won 3%. I would not be surprised to see a similar situation this year. The mid-west is still socially conservative, and Hillary is going to have to prove to mid-west voters that she's not as liberal as she is perceived. I think Barak Obama has an advantage here. He was in the state legislature in Illinois before winning election to the Senate. Hillary will also have to fight the 'liberal' image in New Hampshire, which is not as socially liberal as most other New England states. I would be surprised to see her make it through these tests unscathed.
 

amhersthungboi

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Hillary will also have to fight the 'liberal' image in New Hampshire, which is not as socially liberal as most other New England states. I would be surprised to see her make it through these tests unscathed.

I'm originally from NH, and am, interestingly, still a NH voter. New Hampshire has REALLY changed lately ... look at Lynch as governor (who dominated the Republican challenger in 2006 by an 80-20 margin) and the newly-elected Democratic legistlature. Both members of the US House are now Democrats, for the first time in awhile. Gay marriage is on the table now. Thus, I'm not sure if Hillary will necessarily lose there for being liberal. Nor for being a woman ... Jeanne Shaheen, who was governor of NH in the late 90s, was one of the best governors we've had. So, I actually think Hillary will win NH (which her husband was unable to do in 1991 when he lost to Mass senator Paul Tsongas).

In fact, I think she could even railroad her way through to the nomination, and if she does, I'll vote for her in the general election.

I still don't think she can win the presidency, especially if she runs against McCain or Rudy. She MIGHT have a chance against Romney ... but if he gets the nod, I'll be shocked.

All this said, the last Democratic president came out of no where to surprise everyone. Perhaps there is someone else who will come out of the wood work and shock us. I hope so ...
 

Male Bonding etc

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Another bump... interesting to see what we were saying almost a year and a half ago about the Democratic candidates...

Now, we've got the question of McCain or Obama (no offense to the other "still hangin' in there" candidates, but...), and I have to think that McCain's effort to appeal to the "conservative base" is going to lead to something of an implosion for his campaign eventually. The trick will be for Obama and his campaign to stay positive and be smart enough to ride above the flood of crap we'll see undammed in the coming months while McCain and crew unravel.
 

Gillette

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Another bump... interesting to see what we were saying almost a year and a half ago about the Democratic candidates...

Glad you bumped this. Not only is it interesting to see what was being said over a year ago but how it was being said.

Civility.

Ah, nostalgia.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Why, oh WHY did this thread get bumped??!? :dunno:
Did someone miss the onslaught of Democratic political threads during the Primaries? I think those threads clearly state how some people feel about the candidates.

Let's not go through this again, PUHLEAZE!!! :eek: