Ericsson1228d
Experimental Member
Someone else who gets it... the sheep on this board will, of course, vilify you for stating the truth.
There is still a sliver of hope the Senate will not pass this stinker.
Historic Day for Healthcare (??) -- the House Votes Tonight
- Thread starter D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse
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Someone else who gets it... the sheep on this board will, of course, vilify you for stating the truth.
There is still a sliver of hope the Senate will not pass this stinker.
Yeah, really gets it.
Because the following provisions, as stated on the CNN website, are so reprehensible and easy to vilify:
The Affordable Health Care for America Act, or H.R. 3962, restricts insurance companies from denying coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition or charging higher premiums based on gender or medical history. It also provides federal subsidies to those who cannot afford health insurance. And it guarantees coverage for 96 percent of Americans, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The sheep on this board are the people who reflexively rail against "the government" for no other reason than that they can't stand the fact that Obama and the Dems are in charge.
The teabaggers are the same people who were cheering on preemptive wars, bending over for warrantless wiretaps, yawning at trillion dollar taxpayer giveaways to pharma, and indifferent to secret White House meetings and extreme claims of executive privilege.
They're not against government - just this government. Which, technically, is an administration.
Ericsson1228d
Experimental Member
On the bright side, even if this bill comes to pass, at least we won't be supporting state sponsored infanticide.
THANK YOU BART STUPAK (D-MI)!
THANK YOU BART STUPAK (D-MI)!
I'm saddened that the House bill could only pass on the back of women's reproductive health, but I keep telling myself that this is just one hurdle that could eventually be overcome. In the meantime, between last night and reading these posts today, I just stay floored at how people can spout these half-truths about America having the best healthcare or how we need to keep feeding and throwing money at corporations because they keep our economy afloat. When we reward corporate greed and offer no measure of accountability, that's how we get the Enrons and the WorldComs and the bubble-bursts. Seems like we have a perpetual problem of doing things over and over and over again that keep messing us over, and yet our politicians demonstrate learning curves that are all but flat.
We certainly don't have the best health care because, even for those individuals who dutifully pay their ever-escalating premiums while getting no good reason as to why medicines all of a sudden get more expensive, you can be denied for care. Doctors overtreat and overmedicate instead of offering solid preventative measures. Even if people could shop across state lines for insurance, we're doing nothing to correct and control what costs they put onto their customers. It's no small wonder people make deliberate decisions to go without treatment; despite the best efforts of the really good doctors and nurses and surgeons out there, those overseeing them are caught in a corrupt race to maximize profits.
Funny how "profits" didn't make it into the Hippocratic Oath.
We certainly don't have the best health care because, even for those individuals who dutifully pay their ever-escalating premiums while getting no good reason as to why medicines all of a sudden get more expensive, you can be denied for care. Doctors overtreat and overmedicate instead of offering solid preventative measures. Even if people could shop across state lines for insurance, we're doing nothing to correct and control what costs they put onto their customers. It's no small wonder people make deliberate decisions to go without treatment; despite the best efforts of the really good doctors and nurses and surgeons out there, those overseeing them are caught in a corrupt race to maximize profits.
Funny how "profits" didn't make it into the Hippocratic Oath.
Read your post and some I agree with and some I do not. First and most important the bill that was passed it the middle of the night last night will not even be close to the bill that may or may not become law. The vote that passed last night did not pass just because of the abortion issue of it, there were a number of issues involved. There was a different more important reason the bill passed last night. That reason was the three stooges, Pelosi, Frank and Reid it was to make those 3 idiots look good even though it was a faux moment and meant nothing, it was just a moment for the adoring media to make it look like Pelsoi and her cohorts in congress were actually doing something even though it meant nothing in reality and they know it. Their version will never pass in the Senate and it should not, the final bill will look much different and come the mid term elections it may change even more. I suspect there will be a number of changes in our congress in those elections as there should be in my opinion. Pelsoi, Frank and Reid are a worthless threesome of self indulgent, moronic group of politicians that need to go back home in disgrace for their worthless self centered efforts. I end my speech.
SpeedoGuy
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Look at the guy who has literally no idea what's in the bill. I only wish it was the socialist paradise you think it was.
You too. You could take issue with the socialism in a single payer bill, but there is none of that in this bill.
You're misinformed. There's nothing in the bill to stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Sorry, but you'll have to link me to the relevant sections to support that.
As a remind to everyone, pretty much nothing that is beneficial in this bill will go into effect until 2013....AFTER the next major election.
For reference, Medicare created a huge single-payer system for everyone 65 and older less than 1 year after the bill was passed, in the Johnson administration.
For reference, Medicare created a huge single-payer system for everyone 65 and older less than 1 year after the bill was passed, in the Johnson administration.
My grandparents and all of their friends are on a government-run heath care system and it's called MediCare. And they all love it. :biggrin1:
Ericsson1228d
Experimental Member
I agree. You should write to your members of congress. Remember, only 32 of 256 Democrats stood against $100 billion for more war last June. I am sure you can find their names on the 'net.
The Republican congress members office addresses are available online as well.
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Democrats and Republicans do not disagree on any points that really matter. This has been true for decades, especially in terms of foreign policy.
I'm not sure what your point is.
Ericsson1228d
Experimental Member
True. They are in agreement on cheating on their wives and on their taxes. They disagree on mortgaging future generations.
How will someone pay for heath care when they are out of work then you have to a pay fine of 800.00 a mouth for not having heath care ?
The news from some senators today, hitting the Sunday shows, indicates why each new step of this healthcare reform process is fraught with hidden landmines. Joe Lieberman is, again, threatening to blow the whole thing up.
Graham: House health bill 'dead' in Senate
WASHINGTON, Nov. 8 (UPI) -- The healthcare reform bill passed in the U.S. House of Representatives is "dead on arrival" in the Seante, a senior Republican said Sunday.
Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-N.C., said on CBS's "Face the Nation" that the House bill "is dead on arrival in the Senate" after passing by just two votes over the opposition of all Republicans and 39 Democrats.
"Moderate Democrats from swing districts," Graham said, "bailed out on this bill. It was a bill written by liberals for liberals."
--------------------
From today's Reuters:
U.S. healthcare measure faces tough path in Senate
The battle now shifts to the Senate, where work on Obama's top domestic priority has been stalled for weeks as Democratic leader Harry Reid searches for an approach that can win the 60 votes he needs to overcome Republican procedural hurdles.
"Take this baton and bring this effort to the finish line," Obama urged senators on Sunday in an appearance at the White House, saying passage of healthcare reform would represent "their finest moment in public service."
Democrats have no margin for error -- they control exactly 60 seats in the 100-member Senate. Some moderate Democrats have rebelled at Reid's plan to include a new government-run insurance program, known as the "public option," in the bill.
Senator Joe Lieberman, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, renewed his promise on Sunday to help Republicans block a final vote if the bill contains the government-run insurance option backed by Senate liberals.
"If the public option plan is in there, as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote," Lieberman said on "Fox News Sunday."
----------
From the Associated Press:
Speaking from the Rose Garden about 14 hours after the late Saturday vote, Obama urged senators to be like runners on a relay team and "take the baton and bring this effort to the finish line on behalf of the American people."
The problem is that the Senate won't run with it. The government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the Senate.
If a government plan is part of the deal, "as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent whose vote Democrats need to overcome GOP filibusters.
"The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said dismissively.
Democrats did not line up to challenge him. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has yet to schedule floor debate and hinted last week that senators may not be able to finish health care this year.
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These final laps of this struggle to pass healthcare reform will be the hardest. Everybody, right and left, knows that however imperfect the final bill is, it can be built upon in the future, that it represents a foundation.
Every final step in this process is a "landmark" now, is "historical", because we've never made it this far. Be prepared for conservatives to jack up the volume of the rhetoric from here on out.
Graham: House health bill 'dead' in Senate
WASHINGTON, Nov. 8 (UPI) -- The healthcare reform bill passed in the U.S. House of Representatives is "dead on arrival" in the Seante, a senior Republican said Sunday.
Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-N.C., said on CBS's "Face the Nation" that the House bill "is dead on arrival in the Senate" after passing by just two votes over the opposition of all Republicans and 39 Democrats.
"Moderate Democrats from swing districts," Graham said, "bailed out on this bill. It was a bill written by liberals for liberals."
--------------------
From today's Reuters:
U.S. healthcare measure faces tough path in Senate
The battle now shifts to the Senate, where work on Obama's top domestic priority has been stalled for weeks as Democratic leader Harry Reid searches for an approach that can win the 60 votes he needs to overcome Republican procedural hurdles.
"Take this baton and bring this effort to the finish line," Obama urged senators on Sunday in an appearance at the White House, saying passage of healthcare reform would represent "their finest moment in public service."
Democrats have no margin for error -- they control exactly 60 seats in the 100-member Senate. Some moderate Democrats have rebelled at Reid's plan to include a new government-run insurance program, known as the "public option," in the bill.
Senator Joe Lieberman, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, renewed his promise on Sunday to help Republicans block a final vote if the bill contains the government-run insurance option backed by Senate liberals.
"If the public option plan is in there, as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote," Lieberman said on "Fox News Sunday."
----------
From the Associated Press:
Speaking from the Rose Garden about 14 hours after the late Saturday vote, Obama urged senators to be like runners on a relay team and "take the baton and bring this effort to the finish line on behalf of the American people."
The problem is that the Senate won't run with it. The government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the Senate.
If a government plan is part of the deal, "as a matter of conscience, I will not allow this bill to come to a final vote," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent whose vote Democrats need to overcome GOP filibusters.
"The House bill is dead on arrival in the Senate," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said dismissively.
Democrats did not line up to challenge him. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has yet to schedule floor debate and hinted last week that senators may not be able to finish health care this year.
----------
These final laps of this struggle to pass healthcare reform will be the hardest. Everybody, right and left, knows that however imperfect the final bill is, it can be built upon in the future, that it represents a foundation.
Every final step in this process is a "landmark" now, is "historical", because we've never made it this far. Be prepared for conservatives to jack up the volume of the rhetoric from here on out.
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MercyfulFate
Experimental Member
Exactly, this is pretty much my biggest and only issue with the reform bill.
I live in Mass where they mandate insurance, and it sucks. I'm paying out the ass right not for COBRA I can barely afford.
