HIV+/HIV- relationship

[Shandforthe Shroomstick]

If you knowingly have sex and relationships with people who are POZ you are a bug chaser.

Um no. A bug chaser is someone who actively seeks out the virus, trying to get it. Not everyone having sex with an HIV+ person is looking to get it. Your comment is ignorant. As are most of the ones I've read on this thread. To think that so many people would be so bigoted and exclude someone from their life because they got infected. Especially from a group of people who are already discriminated against.

For anyone out there who's positive. I don't care. I love you all the same and would never turn you away because of it. I think I'm going to stop reading this thread now. It's continuously upsetting me to see how many people can be so cruel. It's one thing to be fearful, but COME ON!... Take care.

 

[headbang8]

I haven't posted in a long while.

I recall this thread from when it was first posted. But now that it has been raised again, I feel the subject is too important to let pass. Especially in light of some of the responses.

I have had two HIV+ partners in my life, including my (now) husband. I remain negative. If a reader of this thread takes away one key fact, let it be that safe sex works.

Are there risks? Yes.

Are there risks to driving a car? Yes.

Do I drive? Yes.

When I drive, I take precautions. I don't drive drunk. I wear a seat belt. I obey speed limits...well, mostly.

Will this absolutely 100% guarantee that I won't die in a car accident? No.

But I still consider myself a "safe" driver, under all meaningful definitions of the word "safe".

I know of some drivers who won't drive at night, won't use a freeway, or won't drive in the snow. Fine. Those are risks they don't want to take.

For myself, I have assessed the risks differently, and behave accordingly. And my life is richer for the experiences that came from taking these risks.

Of course, I don't drive stupidly or recklessly. But I do things which a fastidious driver might not. In my opinion, many of those fastidious drivers don't really decrease their risks much, for all their extra caution. They can end up frustrating themselves, and others, needlessly.

The only way to be a 100% safe driver is not to drive at all. And that's kind of pointless.

For the record, here is what I practice, personally. You may find this TMI, but I feel that sexually active men and women cannot afford to be coy. We need to be open about this.

• Unprotected anal sex: Absolutely not.
• Protected anal sex: With ample lube
• Positive partner performing unprotected oral sex on negative partner: Yes.
• Negative partner performing unprotected oral sex on positive partner: No, at the request of the positive partner.
• Mutual masturbation: Yes, taking care to cover broken skin.
• Kissing that involves saliva: Yes.

Remember, this is MY decision, based on my own assessment of the risks. YOU should inform YOURSELF about safe sex, and make YOUR OWN judgements.

If you choose not to have sex, under any circumstances, with an HIV+ person, fine. That's your choice.

There are also people who choose not to fly in an airplane. I respect that choice, even though I point out that the number of passengers who have landed safely outnumber those who have not by a factor of several millions to one.

And yes, I believe that the risks are comparable.

HB8

P.S. Love to Bbucko.

 

[TopDudeFtl]

I haven't posted in a long while...

Thank you for your perspective. I have followed this thread through it's highs and lows and appreciate your response.

 

[B_HeartsAfire]

I would not. I'm older than most people here past my mid 50s and I have stayed HIV negative this long and while I do use condoms and do practice safer sex knowingly having sex or a relationship with someone who is HIV+ would be too much for me and it would remind me of most of my close friends who have died from AIDS.

 

[444099]

It's 2009, anyone who has unprotected anal or vaginal sex in this world, especially Anal or Vaginal sex without proof that both partners are HIV-negative is an idiot. A selfish idiot because when you die, you don't die alone, you pull all of your friends and family and loved ones into the almost unwatchable painful, messy drama of your slow death from AIDS. The guys and women who already have HIV and act like it's OK to bareback with other POZ people are insane and have death wishes. Of all the ways to die in America in the first part of the 21st Century-Industrial poisoning, cancer from radiation, nuclear meltdown, drive by death, drug overdose, spousal abuse-HIV/AIDS is the last one I would choose. It's an appalling death. Everybody seems to be forgetting that. It isn't like a Tom Hanks movie-you don't get hugged by Antinio Banderas and gently expire while Joanne Wooodward weeps for you in a corner. It takes forever, and you won't win an oscar for putting yourself through it. Instead you'll turn into a skeleton slowly, achingly, over time, and lose your job, your money, your lovers, your eyesight, your appetite, your bowel control, your memory, your mind. You'll rage and scream, you'll alienate all of your friends and family and ruin their love for you and destroy your regard for yourself. I would rather step on a landmine in Vietnam and die with my body parts hanging in a tree. I can live with a condom.

 

[444099]

The best way NOT to get HIV is to practice safer sex, use condoms, get tested, and do not knowingly have even protected sex with people who are POZ.

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

If you knowingly have unprotected sex and relationships with people who are POZ you are a bug chaser.

Fixed that for ya. :wink:

 

[444099]

The best way not to become POZ is to keep using condoms, get tested, use safer sex, be picky about who you have sex with, and avoid knowingly having even protected sex with someone who is POZ.

 

[445247]

Nope. It's way too risky and I know men who have gotten HIV even though they were using condoms and having safer sex. Once you have HIV your life totally changes, the meds are NOT fun to take or easy to take with the side effects, and the best way not to get HIV or be exposed to it is not to have sex with people who you know are POZ and to be picky about who you have sex with and to get tested together at a clinic and use condoms and safer sex.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

It's amazing how the majority of people who posted the most ignorance on this subject matter are all banned. This was the worse of it:

If you knowingly have sex and relationships with people who are POZ you are a bug chaser.

Considering all gay men have been in contact with someone who is HIV+, or had sex with a positive person even without their full knowledge, for someone who claims to be "80% Gay" to say something like this is without a doubt one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on this board. People need to understand that the only way to protect yourself is to use condoms and have safe sex. Being picky or "selective" doesn't work because even the clean-cut guy in an Armani suit, flashy car and big house with a 6 figure salary can be HIV+.

People need to stop trying to paint some kind of demonizing image of a positive person. There's no common mental or physical trait with everyone who contracts the virus. The disease doesn't discriminate, unlike several people on this thread. And you can't expect everyone to be telling you the truth about their status. Around 40% don't even know. Some won't even tell you. Some also lie. And one test result doesn't tell an entire story.

Unless you're going to put on a chastity belt and never have sex again, nobody here (especially gay men) should even try to look at this argument any other way. If you have sex with multiple people, then you've already been in an HIV+/HIV- relationship even if it's just for one night.

 

[445358]

Viral loads can fluxuate/change rapidly and just because somene is on tons of HIV meds it doesn't mean that other Poz/Neg person they are with won't become HIV+ or get another strain of HIV or pass another strain of HIV to the other HIV+ person if they are Poz. If you want to go and have sex with people who are HIV+ nobody is stopping you but when you wind up HIV+ you'll only have yourself to blame. People who are HIV neg and knowingly have sex with HIV poz people are into risky sex, playing with fire, and they've got a death wish and are probably bug chasers even if they do repress it or don't even realize it themselves, or want to admit it. I know it's not PC to say this but it's true and HIV does equal a slow horrible death no matter how many toxic medications you take that harm your body (the meds while they might be good for combating HIV and keeping the TCell count from lowering are VERY bad to take), and the best way not to get HIV is not to have sex with Poz people or share needles if you IV drugs. When are the HIV poz people going to realize that the only way to rid our planet of this scourge is for them, as a group, to take the matter into their own hands and refuse to engage in sexual activity with anyone who is not HIV poz, ever, for any reason? Why cannot HIV+ people not recognize the power they have to make a great contribution to humanity by declaring that they will not, under any circumstance, engage in any behavior that carries with it the possibility of HIV transmission to another human being? Why is it that Poz people do not feel incredible remorse when engaging in behavior that carries this risk? Why is it that they are willing to serve only their desires and are willing to engage in sexual activity with anyone who does not question whether the risk of HIV transmission is present? Also let's not forget about how many people who are HIV+ also have Hepatitis C and how easily that can be transmitted to others. This troubles me greatly. I used to feel nothing but compassion for those with HIV, but the longer that I am exposed to their reckless behavior, the less I am able to hold compassion in my heart. I even know people who are HIV+ who don't tell others that they are when they have sex with them, even when they're asked by the other person/people, or when the other person/people want to swallow them or bareback them. I know Poz people who still bareback/swallow and don't care how many strains of HIV they get or pass onto others, and I even know HIV+ people who are involved in HIV educational centers and non profit orgs where they tell people how important it is to get tested and use condoms, yet they are all into bug chasing/breeding/"gift" giving and are totally cool with letting people gang fuck their ass every weekend and flood it with load after load. You can get HIV from giving oral sex, and swallowing or having semen in your mouth is high risk for HIV; but it's not as risky as unprotected receptive anal sex or sharing a rig/works (needles) with an HIV+ person. Also just because someone is on medications it doesn't mean that your chances for gettting HIV are completely eliminated or that you can't get it from giving oral sex without or with swallowing, since viral loads can go up unexpectedly when someone is on meds. Yes PEP (the post exposure meds) are available but the side effects suck and you have to take them for months and it's no gaurentee that you won't become HIV+.

 

[445768]

A lot more people are getting HIV from giving oral sex and besides HIV there are a host of other STDs that you can easily get that are no picnic like Syphilis or Herpes. I never initiated anal sex. Assholes just aren't sex organs for me. I would put on a rubber and fuck someone if I really wanted to continue playing. It wasn't any fun, but I'd do it if the guy was hot enough. Latex tastes horrible so I never used condoms, not even the icky flavored ones. That worked for 10 years. Then one week, guys suddenly started cumming in my mouth without a warning. This was totally new. A couple months later, I showed up at the clinic to receive my final negative antibody test, "It sounds like your practices are totally safe. I don't understand why you came in today." And about 10 days later, I came down with acute HIV retroviral syndrome. Learned: - Yes, you can get HIV from giving head. - Yes, you can have a viral load through the roof, but score negative on an antibody test. So when a guy says he's drug and disease-free and you be too. he has no idea what he's talking about. He might have caught it last week. He might be one of the 5% non-reactive carriers. Craigslist is full of denial. - It only takes one viral cell, so undetectable HIV doesn't mean viral-free. Without a viral load test, you never know when you're carrying a virus until your body reacts. There are 3 kinds of people: Virgins, Pozzies, and Unsure. Oral is low risk, but not zero risk. How fast can you spit? How well can you clean your mouth out with saliva? Do you have ANY dental problems? Do your gums bleed at all when you brush? Do you swallow? I was the generation born wearing a rubber. They said I was totally safe. If I could do it all over again I never would have had sex with an HIV+ guy.

 

[MickeyLee]

LizzardLeatherBoots, LargePenis46, SadPony....blahblahblah.

pretending to be a person with HIV in an attempt to add credibility to your hateful fear mongering? to avoid getting myself banned i'm just going to report you to the Mods... again.

Mods - there has got to be something done about LP46, something other than banning a new persona every 12 hours.

 

[445768]

LizzardLeatherBoots, LargePenis46, SadPony....blahblahblah.

pretending to be a person with HIV in an attempt to add credibility to your hateful fear mongering? to avoid getting myself banned i'm just going to report you to the Mods... again.

Mods - there has got to be something done about LP46, something other than banning a new persona every 12 hours.

Fuck are you talking about? I'm poz. You can call yourself a dyke or lesbian all you want but it is clear that you are not. :wink:

 

[headbang8]

If a reader of this thread takes away one key fact, let it be that safe sex works.

Just thought I'd repeat that.

Some of the posts seem to suggest that safe sex with a positive person is never completely safe. That's an arguable position.

But look at it this way. How many straight men refuse to have sex with women because no method of contraception is 100% safe? Very few, I would suggest.

Abstinence educators--whether talking about pregnancy, HIV, or any other possible consequence of sex---take these very small risks, and magnify them. It doesn't help sexually active people make realistic decisions about their sexual behaviour. It just ends up demonising the sexually active. In some cases, that may be the educator's intent.

Several HIV education bodies with which I've been involved deliberately use the language of "safe/unsafe" rather than "high risk/low risk".

These experts feel that calling the even safest activity "low-risk" encourages people to avoid ALL sex. They end up frustrated, and when they become too drunk or desperate, throw caution to the wind and do something REALLY unsafe.

It mirrors the pattern of heterosexual absitinence education, no?

 

[446100]

Have sex with people who have HIV/AIDS all you want. It is your life, your health, and if and when you wind up getting HIV/AIDS it will be your choice to have done so by having sex with someone who has HIV/AIDS.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Good post, headbang8. Glad to see some thinkers on this thread.

 

[speshk]

Anyone wishing to or determined to enter into a relationship with someone of a different HIV status obviously should evaluate the totality of the situation according to their own set of circumstances and attitudes. Just because a difference exists does not mean that you have to jettison any possibility of a relationship; even an exclusive, long-term relationship, if you educate yourselves about practices and treatments. There is no absolute right or wrong answer to this question. The only absolute is to not let ignorance or irrational fear dictate a relationship decision.

I have known literally dozens of HIV-discordant couples, and within my particular set of acquaintances there has not been a single case of a partner seroconverting after the relationship began. I have, however, known of several couples that were, or believed they were, HIV-negative where one or both of the partners seroconverted after the relationship began. Maybe the former group was more carefully cognizant of facts they knew to exist, and exercised care accordingly.

There has been a lot of discussion since the Vernazza study (commonly called the "Swiss Study") came out a year ago stating that not one case of seroconversion occurred among heterosexual serodiscordant couples having unprotected sex, ostensibly to get pregnant, where the seropositive partner was on HAART and had (1) an undetectable viral load for at least 6 months and (2) no other sexually transmissible disease(s). [Vernazza P, Hirschel B, Bernasconi E, Flepp M. HIV seropositive persons without sexually transmitted diseases under fully suppressive antiretroviral treatment do not sexually transmit HIV. Bulletin des medecins Suisses 2008; 89:165-169.] This was exciting news, but no sensible person would conclude that it means the risk of transmission is zero. But for many, if not most, couples it describes, the risk may be extremely low, and may be reduced to near-zero with sensible precautions.

One's criteria for deciding on a life partner may well be different from those for choosing casual sex partners. Love is a still a perfectly valid factor to consider even when HIV is an issue.

Well and beautifully said.

 

[446533]

Just thought I'd repeat that.

Some of the posts seem to suggest that safe sex with a positive person is never completely safe. That's an arguable position.

But look at it this way. How many straight men refuse to have sex with women because no method of contraception is 100% safe? Very few, I would suggest.

Abstinence educators--whether talking about pregnancy, HIV, or any other possible consequence of sex---take these very small risks, and magnify them. It doesn't help sexually active people make realistic decisions about their sexual behaviour. It just ends up demonising the sexually active. In some cases, that may be the educator's intent.

Several HIV education bodies with which I've been involved deliberately use the language of "safe/unsafe" rather than "high risk/low risk".

These experts feel that calling the even safest activity "low-risk" encourages people to avoid ALL sex. They end up frustrated, and when they become too drunk or desperate, throw caution to the wind and do something REALLY unsafe.

It mirrors the pattern of heterosexual absitinence education, no?

There's no such thing as "safe" sex as it all carries some degree of risk.

 

[jerkdude75]

Such a long, unnecessary posting and such useless discrimination against poz people. Grow the fuck already. I've had people who don't even want to masturbate with me because of my status. Does that make me sad? Uh hell no. They're the simpletons. Do I find it annoying? Well, yeah. Who the fuck is going to get anything (besides scabies, herpes of which I have neither) from jerking off? All I ask is that you get the facts straight. Safe sex is safe sex. Period. If you practice it completely (which means not swallowing and even using a condom to prevent orally transmitted gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, etc), all parties will be safe. Get off your high horse. No one likes to be name called. Slow down on your use of the word whore. You're not making any friends here.