HIV Risk with Bottoming for a POZ Top with Undetectable Viral Load

elgrandon

Just Browsing
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Posts
3
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
86
umm, undetectable means thats its not detectable in the blood, it does NOT mean its not detectable in any other bodily fluid, including semen.


-egd
 

Gedackt8

Experimental Member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
32
Media
0
Likes
2
Points
153
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
TomCat84 already debunked your statement, but let me provide a life example that goes beyond that. One of my best friends is "poz" (I honestly don't care if the abbreviations or the slang offends you at this point) and has been in a long term relationship with their partner for nearly 8 years. His partner is negative, and still is to this day... on top of this, they have had some levels of unprotected sex throughout their relationship.

Keep in mind, this is not an endorsement of any kind for anyone to go around having unprotected sex without any concern of risk. However, for you to say that positive people can and will transmit is bullshit. While I understand why some people may not want to have sex with someone that they know is positive in fear of contracting the virus themselves, it's foolish to translate that fear into a statement under the guise of fact. Everyone here, including yourself, have probably slept with someone who is positive by this point and most likely don't even know it. And just because you may have used a condom, that doesn't mean that there still wasn't a risk... just a much lower one than those who don't use them.

With that said, it is my understanding that unprotected anal sex and bottoming is probably the riskiest act you can engage in. It is where body tissues, cuts and skin tears can happen the easiest, which is how the virus gets into a person's body to begin with. Undetectable viral loads do not mean an absence of the virus, so it's best to be safe even with this bit of information.

THANK YOU for the most informed post I've read so far on this thread.
 

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
all it takes is 1 virus,

WRONG again. Could it take one virus? Yes- but HIGHLY unlikely. If I somehow transported 1 virus into your bloodstream, you probably wouldnt become HIV+. Why? Because your body attacks the virus like it would any other virus- and one virus isn't going to cut it most likely. Again, STOP the fear mongering. HIV is VERY difficult to get.
 

mattsrod7

Expert Member
Joined
May 12, 2004
Posts
1,561
Media
17
Likes
168
Points
268
Location
United States
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
WRONG again. Could it take one virus? Yes- but HIGHLY unlikely. If I somehow transported 1 virus into your bloodstream, you probably wouldnt become HIV+. Why? Because your body attacks the virus like it would any other virus- and one virus isn't going to cut it most likely. Again, STOP the fear mongering. HIV is VERY difficult to get.

haha this is wrong. our body can't kill it yet. if it gets into your body, it can stay there for 10 years before activating itself and get you then. You are right, our body can attack the virus, but it has no clue what to do, so the virus wins. HIV is very easy to get.
 

Lambycake

Experimental Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Posts
79
Media
0
Likes
5
Points
43
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Swiss HIV experts have produced the first-ever consensus statement to say that HIV-positive individuals on effective antiretroviral therapy and without sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are sexually non-infectious. The statement is published in this week’s Bulletin of Swiss Medicine (Bulletin des médecins suisses). The statement also discusses the implications for doctors; for HIV-positive people; for HIV prevention; and the legal system.
The statement, on behalf of the Swiss Federal Commission for HIV / AIDS was authored by four of Switzerland’s foremost HIV experts: Prof Pietro Vernazza, of the Cantonal Hospital in St. Gallen, and President of the Swiss Federal Commission for HIV / AIDS; Prof Bernard Hirschel from Geneva University Hospital; Dr Enos Bernasconi of the Lugano Regional Hospital; and Dr Markus Flepp, president of the Swiss Federal Office of Public Health’s Sub-committee on the clincal and therapeutic aspects of HIV / AIDS.
The statement’s headline statement says that “after review of the medical literature and extensive discussion,” the Swiss Federal Commission for HIV / AIDS resolves that, “An HIV-infected person on antiretroviral therapy with completely suppressed viraemia (“effective ART”) is not sexually infectious, i.e. cannot transmit HIV through sexual contact.”
 

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
haha this is wrong. our body can't kill it yet. if it gets into your body, it can stay there for 10 years before activating itself and get you then. You are right, our body can attack the virus, but it has no clue what to do, so the virus wins. HIV is very easy to get.

Jesus fucking Christ- you're so fucking misinformed it's not even funny. YES, our body can kill HIV! The problem comes because there are millions of them- all at once- they get into your T-Cells, using them to replicate even more thousands of themselves. It mutates over time, so that the produced antibodies are ineffective. Because it attacks T Cells, the body's immune response is going to be compromised, since T Cells are a key component in your immune system. Stop with your misnformed verbal diarhea- in terms of easiness to catch, HIV is waaaaaaaaaaaay below things like the cold, herpes, genital warts, gonorhea, syphilis, etc. Don't tell me I'm wrong- Ive been living with it for 5 1/2 years now.
 
Last edited:

bisexualjock

Experimental Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Posts
94
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
163
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
Saliva has been shown to be a natural HIV killer, especially as it related to oral sex transmission. The obvious problem is killing all of the HIV Virus before it finds a hospitable spot to enter your blood stream.

HIV is, in some ways, no different than the flu. You could be sitting in a room with 10 people, one of which is infected with the flu. If that infected person sneezes, and everyone inhales their infected mucous, what is the liklihood that ALL of them will become infected? The answer is "very low", mainly due to variations in their natural defenses, immunities, and the current state of their immune system response. If 10 people bottomed for a positive partner, not all of them would be expected to contract HIV either.

Some people are incapable of getting infected with HIV, as their bodies contain a genetic mutation that prevents it from taking hold in their bodies.

The short answer - everyone is different.
 

bisexualjock

Experimental Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Posts
94
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
163
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
@TomCat84 - secondary infections such as gonorrhea, herpes, or genital warts have been shown to increase your liklihood of contracting HIV, due to the face that they all produce skin irritation, open wounds, and interfere with mucuous membranes.

Yes, it is easier to contract any of those STDs, but in doing so, you put yourself at more risk for HIV transmission as well.
 

Lambycake

Experimental Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Posts
79
Media
0
Likes
5
Points
43
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
"Undetectable" does not imply the absence of the virus. In fact, any "negative" test for the virus simply means that the test is incapable of detecting the virus (because of the low level of the virus), not that the virus does not exist. Your partner, should he have a test for HIV today, would show a negative result. This does not imply you should have unprotected sex with him. Have him wear protection.

Anyone with HIV tests antibody positive. The HIV test detects antibodies to the virus, not the virus itself.
 

Lambycake

Experimental Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Posts
79
Media
0
Likes
5
Points
43
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
thebody.com and hopkins-aids.edu are good places to go for facts about HIV disease and its transmission.
 

B_Alt33

Just Browsing
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Posts
112
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
51
Location
NY
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Are you all nuts funny I don't see MD next to anyones name. I don't mean to be rude by anyone concerned about HIV should speak with an expert not a Large Penis forum. Anyhow, it takes up to 12 weeks to test positive for HIV if you have come into contact with HIV. This is from CDC. Some states state 6-8 weeks over 90% will test positive. HIV can not live in your body for 10 years and not be detected by an HIV test. There is no proof of this at all and if there is state the place were we can find.

Anyhow if you are concerned wait until after the window period of 12 weeks and get an hiv test. Then test again at 6 months if negative you are negative. There are some good resources of information The Body for one is great and run by doctors. The other if Medhelp and Freedom Health.
 

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Are you all nuts funny I don't see MD next to anyones name. I don't mean to be rude by anyone concerned about HIV should speak with an expert not a Large Penis forum. Anyhow, it takes up to 12 weeks to test positive for HIV if you have come into contact with HIV. This is from CDC. Some states state 6-8 weeks over 90% will test positive. HIV can not live in your body for 10 years and not be detected by an HIV test. There is no proof of this at all and if there is state the place were we can find.

Anyhow if you are concerned wait until after the window period of 12 weeks and get an hiv test. Then test again at 6 months if negative you are negative. There are some good resources of information The Body for one is great and run by doctors. The other if Medhelp and Freedom Health.

Can you see why my last couple of posts were angry sounding? :mad:
 

unhappybigguy

Expert Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Posts
32
Media
29
Likes
242
Points
253
Location
East Yorkshire (England)
Sexuality
90% Straight, 10% Gay
Gender
Male
I appreciate your safe sex message here but I believe it's better to be informed with current understanding of the risks of HIV infection than spew outdated information and uninformed opinions as yours.

Oh my bad, HIV isn't contagious then. Because that is essentially what I said.

"outdated information"? As other users have said, there has been no formal research done on what you asked (making my post in no way outdated, as it describes the current level of understanding.), it's also just needlessly risky. As in, "risking getting HIV based on here-say with no solid backing is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard of."

As other users have said, you do NOT have to be in an active period to be contagious. This applies to just about every virus, sexually transmitted or otherwise, on the face of the planet.

Herpes simplex, for example, can be entirely dormant, but still infect others.

And, even if it was provable that a reduced load level resulted in a lower level of infection, it is NOT a goddamn flu virus.

I'm utterly amazed by this response. You're acting as if I'm an ignorant redneck who should apologise for not wanting you to risk contracting HIV.



Wow, just wow. I am officially out. Please try connecting with reality some time.
 
Last edited:

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Oh my bad, HIV isn't contagious then. Because that is essentially what I said.

"outdated information"? As other users have said, there has been no formal research done on what you asked (making my post in no way outdated, as it describes the current level of understanding.), it's also just needlessly risky. As in, "risking getting HIV based on here-say with no solid backing is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard of."

As other users have said, you do NOT have to be in an active period to be contagious. This applies to just about every virus, sexually transmitted or otherwise, on the face of the planet.

Herpes simplex, for example, can be entirely dormant, but still infect others.

And, even if it was provable that a reduced load level resulted in a lower level of infection, it is NOT a goddamn flu virus.

I'm utterly amazed by this response. You're acting as if I'm an ignorant redneck who should apologise for not wanting you to risk contracting HIV.



Wow, just wow. I am officially out. Please try connecting with reality some time.

*FACEPALM* Stop digging the hole, dude!
 

Johnny9223

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Posts
16
Media
3
Likes
3
Points
38
Location
Las Vegas, NV - USA
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
First, I study disease and am completing a PhD studying ancient diseases so...

Second, viral transmission is VERY complicated. Your chance of catching something depends on:
-Your unique Immunity, which is based on:
-Your Age
-Your nutritional status
-Your immune system's past exposure and antibody status
-Your sex (men have an, on average, weaker immune system)
- Your other health conditions
-The Pathogen (virus):
-the strain
-the health of the virus
-its age (as it may die as it enters you or may not)
-its compatibility with your immune system
-In the case of HIV, its compatibility with your transfer proteins on the surface of your T-Cell cell membranes
The ability of the virus to replicate & successfully mutate/adapt to your body/immune system.

It also depends on method of transmission (anal/oral/sanguine/etc), your ancestry (some populations have limited resistance to HIV [the Delta32 deletion which only protects against the major strains.

Because there are so many factors to consider, I wouldn't roll the dice. You might get lucky with a weak strain that you have partial resistance to. You might have less of a chance to be exposed from a man with a lower viral load (which doesn't always correlate to T-cell count) but ultimately you are still taking a risk. Just one virus of a new strain that enters 1 T-cell could replicate in the blood right inside the intestinal membrane in your rectal wall, in your gums, etc. and reproduce and you'd have it.

My advice: protection! protection! protection! This means lube, condoms, not over-stressing the tissue of your ass/mouth and being healthy and exercising. Regular check-ups and do what is best to facilitate a healthy immune system.

Don't risk it.
 

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting that the OP go ahead and have unprotected sex with an HIV+ top. What I am objecting to is people giving out inaccurate information, and outright lies, such as "HIV is highly contagious," or "HIV+ people can and will transmit the disease." Fear-mongering does no good. The OP deserves honest and correct information and advice, not regurgitated scare tactics from late 80s era AIDS information campaigns.
 

FuzzyKen

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Posts
2,045
Media
0
Likes
100
Points
193
Gender
Male
One of the things that bothers me to this day are the number of people who do not do their homework. TomCat84 and many others talking about common sense are correct. My "family business" for many years was medicine. It may be my business again if I choose to come out of retirement.

As time has progressed, science has found that HIV is not as easily transmitted as once thought. There are many theories for this, and to discuss them could take pages not a few paragraphs.

When I was single, I never hesitated to date or have sex with HIV sero positive individuals in any way. I did make some modifications as to what I would do or how I would do it with a person who was sero-positive, and it was for that persons protection as well as for my own.

Today, there are so many things that are far more fearsome than HIV, and far more easy to transmit between people. Yes, HIV is still out there and people are still dying of it, that is true. The people who are now losing their lives to this are losing them because they do not make any effort to lead healthy lives. They stay out to all hours, they consume enough alcohol to cloud their judgment especially about their dosages of HIV medications or even remembering to take them, they use other recreational drugs, and they make little effort to insure that the medical issues they have are cared for in anything resembling common sense. This is particularly true of individuals with alcohol or drug problems.

In life, it is common sense and good current information that counts. It does not take an MD and a license to practice medicine, to direct people to good information and that has been done here.

With regards to conflicting opinions: My friends, after having been in and around medicine for the greatest portion of my adult life, I can with an absolute education tell you that this is the nature of medicine because "publish or perish" applies in medicine as well as any other area where research grants or research dollars are sought. If you work in research, you get your research grants and your dollars based on what you publish. Remember, with a research grant, nobody has to guarantee that what you publish is 100% accurate. What you have to do to continue your research is to get something out there that provokes thought.

The best weapon against infection from any STD is the two brains located within the two skulls of the two people about to engage in an act of sex. It is that simple. Think with the head on your shoulders not the one between your legs.
 
Last edited:

TomCat84

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Posts
3,414
Media
4
Likes
173
Points
148
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
One of the things that bothers me to this day are the number of people who do not do their homework. TomCat84 and many others talking about common sense are correct. My "family business" for many years was medicine. It may be my business again if I choose to come out of retirement.

As time has progressed, science has found that HIV is not as easily transmitted as once thought. There are many theories for this, and to discuss them could take pages not a few paragraphs.

When I was single, I never hesitated to date or have sex with HIV sero positive individuals in any way. I did make some modifications as to what I would do or how I would do it with a person who was sero-positive, and it was for that persons protection as well as for my own.

Today, there are so many things that are far more fearsome than HIV, and far more easy to transmit between people. Yes, HIV is still out there and people are still dying of it, that is true. The people who are now losing their lives to this are losing them because they do not make any effort to lead healthy lives. They stay out to all hours, they consume enough alcohol to cloud their judgment especially about their dosages of HIV medications or even remembering to take them, they use other recreational drugs, and they make little effort to insure that the medical issues they have are cared for in anything resembling common sense. This is particularly true of individuals with alcohol or drug problems.

In life, it is common sense and good current information that counts. It does not take an MD and a license to practice medicine, to direct people to good information and that has been done here.

With regards to conflicting opinions: My friends, after having been in and around medicine for the greatest portion of my adult life, I can with an absolute education tell you that this is the nature of medicine because "publish or perish" applies in medicine as well as any other area where research grants or research dollars are sought. If you work in research, you get your research grants and your dollars based on what you publish. Remember, with a research grant, nobody has to guarantee that what you publish is 100% accurate. What you have to do to continue your research is to get something out there that provokes thought.

The best weapon against infection from any STD is the two brains located within the two skulls of the two people about to engage in an act of sex. It is that simple. Think with the head on your shoulders not the one between your legs.

Bravo Ken!