Holy Crimes (Batman!)

midlifebear

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yes, dear fellow -- where are the examples?
all you cite are incidents of clergy engaging in lapses of moral behavior, of various degrees of criminality -- none of them in a "political" context


indeed, the implied, generalized connection reposes on an ideological intent (Trotsky, Lenin, et al would be proud)


indeed

as usual, the only intelligent post


citation?

operative definition of religiosity?

self-description in interview?

so, we take statements as face value?

if so, Kim Il Sung is the greatest human leader in history -- ask any North Korean

(it would be nice if our educational systems imparted critical and analytical skills to the masses as they once did, instead of baby boomer era little red book indoctrination)

And blah, blah, blah and more blah. Poor nick o' da sixes, it must be miserable for you to feel so powerless. :smile:

Sometimes I wonder what is missing for you to be unable to connect the dots, but not enough to keep me awake at night.:smile::smile::smile:
 
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joyboytoy79

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And blah, blah, blah and more blah. Poor nick o' da sixes, it must be miserable for you to feel so powerless. :smile:

Sometimes I wonder what is missing for you to be unable to connect the dots, but not enough to keep me awake at night.:smile::smile::smile:

Now now now, Midlife, where is the compassion in that? Don't you find it more compassionate to foist your standards upon him and force him to convert to a life of (what is it exactly we could make use of him for????)?

Oh, wait, i think my definition of "compassion" may have been corrupted a little, there. Not to worry, I have Pastor Burning to sort it all out for me! :rolleyes:
 

B_VinylBoy

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evidently, the Emperor has no clothes ...

two libs, no answer

More like two answers that make perfect sense to those who have the ability to think beyond their own narrow-minded scope. And yes, by "libs". If you have anything to add that doesn't scream ignorance, then by all means... the stage awaits.
 

Qua

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Yes, because the figures such as priests, ministers, etc, lead the religious people in general. They teach. They shepherd. When it turns out they are morally (and legally) bankrupt, it casts doubt on their teachings, and that casts doubt on their ability to shepherd, and that casts doubt as to their right to impose their morally superior doctrines on those who wouldn't choose to follow their flocks.

If they don't want to adhere to all of the responsibilities that comes with these titles, nor the scrutiny and criticism that comes with it when they mess up, then they should have made a better career choice.

To that I would argue that the ability to interpret and explain moral codes and advise people of the best way to do things doesn't equate to their teachings being easy to follow. And that goes for the teacher as much as the student. Granted, many religious figures place themselves (or are placed) on a pedestal, but I don't find that necessarily fair. One's superego may discern proper behavior and moral philosophy well while one's id is still as hard to control as anyone's.

I know that's essentially justifying it with a "do as I say, not as I do" argument, but must one claim moral purity in order to define what moral purity is? Perhaps this placing of religious figures on a pedestal is the problem. We're all in the struggle to become better people together.

Just because one can verbalize it and help others doesn't mean he's necessarily tempered enough to help himself. But that shouldn't take away from his ability to help others. An out of shape person can make a perfectly good personal trainer, as an analogy.

EDIT: And just so there's no confusion, I am not religious. Raised Catholic, didn't see it fitting or improving my life so I casted it off. My personal set of beliefs are not in line with any religious sect, so I choose not to follow any, however I have the utmost respect for the fact that many find a religious doctrine enhances or gives some purpose to their lives. Thus I refuse to buy into all this "religion is the source of all conflict" "Ban all religions" etc etc bullshit. Then we'd all be confused lost people writing on large penis politics forums in all likelihood.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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He counted two liberals posting after him, who rather than address his points (the last of which was very valid) belittled him and made fun of him. Thus "two liberals, no answer"

That's what it looks like on the surface...
But underneath it all, it's just another one of NickySixxy's rants defending Christianity as if it's better than any other religion out there. Most people understand that there's a lot of problems that exist in all organized religions, but leave it to someone like Nick666 to act as if anyone who doesn't see Christianity as the ultimate beacon of social morality must be evil... or a "lib".

And why is this thread in the Politics section? Kinda strange how some people fail to see why considering how religion is so deliberately entrenched into most people's actions in Congress (especially with "conservatives")... where power hungry people deceptively act as if they're these beacons of moral superiority all because of this facade they portray on television with their trophy families on one side and their Bibles in the other, cleverly using misinterpreted scripture as catalysts for their own discriminative agendas to quietly oppress others who are different. Why is this in the Politics section? You need to ask this while we have some of our so-called "moral political leaders" influencing legislation in other countries that would push for the death of people for being gay in Uguanda, while intentionally blinded "Christians" such as NickySixxy tries desperately to shame Islam just because they have suicide bombers?

Yeah, this thread belongs here. Just more proof to the overall hypocrisy that exists in organized religion... and not one of them is any better than the other. It's one of the main reasons why I haven't been to church in a very long time myself.

But who am I to draw parallels? I'm just a "dirty lib". :rolleyes:
 

Qua

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Did I question the thread's placement:confused:?

It's definitely in the right place. I question the sanity of anyone who thinks religion and politics are separate beasts (or ever will be; look at France for all its attempts to be secular with it's "don't ask don't tell" take on public religious display)


EDIT: Nvm, got it.
 

Bodaddio

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And why is this thread in the Politics section? Kinda strange how some people fail to see why considering how religion is so deliberately entrenched into most people's actions in Congress (especially with "conservatives")... where power hungry people deceptively act as if they're these beacons of moral superiority all because of this facade they portray on television with their trophy families on one side and their Bibles in the other, cleverly using misinterpreted scripture as catalysts for their own discriminative agendas to quietly oppress others who are different.

You can't just say especially with conservatives, it goes to Democrats just as much. Look at Nancy Pelosi freaking out because the Catholic Church was doing whatever it was wanting to do. Reverend Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I am sure the whole Black Congressional Caucus has religion entrenched in their actions. How big of a deal is made out of where the President chooses to go to church? To say it is especially with conservatives is a farce and you of all people Vinyl should be ashamed of how you played it.

Cheers
 

B_VinylBoy

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You can't just say especially with conservatives, it goes to Democrats just as much. Look at Nancy Pelosi freaking out because the Catholic Church was doing whatever it was wanting to do. Reverend Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I am sure the whole Black Congressional Caucus has religion entrenched in their actions. How big of a deal is made out of where the President chooses to go to church? To say it is especially with conservatives is a farce and you of all people Vinyl should be ashamed of how you played it.

I'm not ashamed at all about how I word things around here... at all.
You can list as many instances you want to try and even out the playing field regarding religion and its influence on politics but it won't change a thing. Beyond affiliations and a various statements said by certain people, one can also pay attention to people's actions as well.

For decades now, Democrats have had problems winning over a considerable number of faith based voters come election time. Even Obama, who managed to win over more religious voters than many other previous Democratic nominees (including John Kerry from last year), still couldn't come close to the numbers generated by John McCain in this sector. Studies from the Pew Research Center for the People & The Press further illustrate the separation between Democrats & Republicans when it comes to religious voters as well. Religion and the Presidential Vote - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

Then there's the campaigns themselves. Since the 1980s, have you yet to find a Republican candidate in any town, city or state that didn't formulate a bid for office based on a majority (if not all) of these particular principals:

1. Promotion of "traditional marriage" and opposition to adultery
2. Support for a roll back of aspects of Feminism and support for a traditional role for women in the family.
3. Opposition to same-sex marriage
4. Support for traditional education and parental involvement in that education
5. Support for policies that encourage "adoption over abortion"
6. Support for behavior identified as traditional or moral such as respect, discipline, attentiveness, religious commitment
7. Support for healthy choices such as a nutritious diet, medical screenings, and physical activity
8. Support for "abstinence education" exclusively regarding risks associated with early sexual activity such as teen pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases while not teaching such topics of sex education as human sexual behavior, safe sex and birth control.
9. Support for policies that are said to protect children from obscenity and exploitation

BTW, I'm sure you're foaming at the mouth to say that Obama was against same-sex marriage, therefore debunking that checklist and my opinion. But the key word here is MAJORITY... not just a couple.

There's also the actual religious factions, plus their overall impact on their political parties. The Christian Left is far less influential to their collective party, much unlike the Christian Right is to theirs. For starters, the left clearly don't have the numbers, nor do they have such conviction to vote purely on their religious beliefs. As for particular issues, we can use homosexuality as a prime example. Although both sides may believe that homosexual sex is immoral, the Christian Left find that to be largely unimportant when compared with issues relating to social justice, or even matters of sexual morality involving heterosexual sex.

And please, don't make the mistake in trying to include race into this equation. You can talk about Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the Black Congressional Caucus all you want. But you'd have to ignore one glaring fact in order to bring this up as some kind of group that has any real effect over the Democratic Party... Population. Caucasians make up close to 80% of the people in our country, including some who may have some trace of Hispanic descent, compared to Blacks that only make up close to 13%. USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

The largest religious body in America? The Catholic Church with more than 66 million people as of 2002, followed by Southern Baptist which is considerably less with 16.4 million. Largest Religious Groups in the USA

The racial breakdown of Catholics? According to a study conducted in 2004 by the Barna Group, 60% of Catholics in America were caucasian while only 4% were Black. As for Southern Baptist, their numbers may be low in comparison but they do maintain 42,000 places of worship in our country. If we looked at the racial breakdown of these people, you'd see that more of them are caucasian as well. Their decline in numbers over recent years are further reflection of their inability to attract more minorities to their side, and they'll probably be struggling with that for a long time considering their stances on immigration. But I digress...

As for the Black Congressional Caucus themselves? We can say that they're all Democrat, but let's look at their overall numbers. They only have one member in the Senate (out of 100), as well as 43 members in the House of Representatives (out of 435). Once again, the math doesn't add up. Their "influence" on politics is minimal at best.

Need we go on?
 

midlifebear

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I like the Qua. He's OK. We will keep him. My rant and quash at the nick of sixes erupted because he obviously does not check the links to the articles and or reads them. Some official catholic mouth piece writing to a State senator, thanking him openly for continuing to support a status quo that smacks of bigotry, hate, and promoting inequality is something that nicky boy doesn't see as being political? The kid's as dense as a mud fence. What's even more pathetic is that he's probably that way on purpose.

I'm not interested in stopping people from believing in their special invisible friends. But I do draw the line when they insist I invite their delusions into my life and march me around. Go ahead and pray to whatever you want. However, do not expect that everyone else is wrong because the don't believe in your deluded belief system.

I have yet to meet ANY christian or member of a major organized faith machine NOT have an ulterior agenda: worship my god and you'll receive eternal salvation (as long as you join and goose step); worship my god and you'll receive cookies; a brand, new car?
And all you need to do is give me the essence of your being in return. Fair, right?

Yeah, well I'm tired of being nice about it. You can fucking bite me!
 
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midlifebear

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Thanks, Mr. Nick8 (and we all know what the 8 stands for and believe you are just being modest).

So, here's a round up of the last week of 2009. Holy crimes never seem to stop, even during the holidaze.
----------------
As of 01/04/210:

California: Pastor Anthony Garduno arrested for dealing crystal meth. Garduno was a Catholic priest until he was booted for "inappropriate sexual contact" with a male parishioner. He may also face gun and sexual assault charges.
Ireland: The Irish Independent calls on Bishop Martin Drennan to resign over accusations he helped cloak the crimes of pedophile priests. The four other bishops named in the scandalous Murphy Report have all offered their resignations.
Pennsylvania: Pastor Kirk Caldwell held on $2M bond after being charged with murder for the Christmas Day shooting of his son.
Colorado: Pastor Keita Andrews pleads guilty to animal abuse after his starving dog was confiscated by animal protection officers.
Italy: Father Giorgio Panini charged with the stabbing murder of the husband of his mistress.
Internet: A website called Bishop Accountability has posted the names of 3300 Catholic priests accused of pedophilia.(do a google)
Tennessee: Pastor Steve Tillman charged with reckless endangerment for shooting at cars parked in his nephew's driveway.
Argentina: Archbishop Edgardo Storni sentenced to eight years for sexually abusing a priest in training.
South Africa: Father Georg Kerkhoff accused of abusing young boys. A local abuse victims support group plans to sue Kerkhoff's diocese for allowing him contact with children for more than a decade after complaints began.

And we're keeping our eyes out for:
Rhode Island: Father Brendan Smyth accused of raping one male and two female minors during his tenure at Our Lady Of Mercy over 40 years ago. Smyth died in an Irish prison in 1997 following his conviction on 91 counts of child molestation. His two alleged victims in Rhode Island are demanding that the Diocese Of Providence release their records on Smyth and other suspected pedophile priests. Providence Archbishop Thomas Tobin has refused to comment on the charges.

Hmmm . . . 91 convictions of child molestation? That old padre was busy! :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:
 
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