Homonormativity /Heteronormativity vs Queer

[dreambridger]

Sorry, I was at busy. My point is that sex comes with cultural baggage attached. So does sexual identity. For example, I doubt that a homosexual male that experience conversion therapy would experience a negative emotion when a supposedly gay male sleeps with a female. He will feel that it's just confirming the belief that being gay is a choice or feelings of his own inadequacy.
Right now, there a bunch of homosexuals on Twitter that are policing Onlyfan creators because of the trauma that they experience. That's not healthy behavior .
However, it points to a set of issues that the LGBT community failed to address as a whole. Due to the nature of reality and society, homosexuals will never be equal to heterosexuals. Since it was never address, it could lead to more frustrated people.

hm, well i certainly agree that these might be issues that LGBT community doesn't address, and I do agree that the experience of living a homosexual life is different than a heterosexual life (and I'd even suspect living a bisexual life is different from a heterosexual life), and some gay men would like to pretend that difference doesn't exist.

I don't really see how this supports the idea that sex is about power and not about pleasure. If there's baggage, that baggage is a secondary layer thrown over the core of what sex is. It doesn't imply that sex is about anything other than pleasure, it just implies that there's things in our society that inhibits the pleasurable act that sex is originally meant to be.

 

[Smallteaplant]

hm, well i certainly agree that these might be issues that LGBT community doesn't address, and I do agree that the experience of living a homosexual life is different than a heterosexual life (and I'd even suspect living a bisexual life is different from a heterosexual life), and some gay men would like to pretend that difference doesn't exist.

I don't really see how this supports the idea that sex is about power and not about pleasure. If there's baggage, that baggage is a secondary layer thrown over the core of what sex is. It doesn't imply that sex is about anything other than pleasure, it just implies that there's things in our society that inhibits the pleasurable act that sex is originally meant to be.

So maybe I’m not just taking about sex in itself. I’m talking about relationships, sex, and status.

Power isn’t the right word. By power, I mean status or something that is in well regard. For example, sex with an attractive woman who is a model or a pop star is a status symbol for men. However, sex with an unattractive woman would result in no change or major lost to the man’s social status. Another example, a majority of women wouldn’t date a bisexual man because the thought of being left for a man is ego killing, besides the risk of STDs. Gay men wouldn’t date bisexuals for the same reason. Sure, some of this has to do with society. But it taps in the human psyche for some reason.

So what if sex is about pleasure, when it’s the cultural baggage that is attached to it is so volatile. Besides, not everyone is hedonistic enough to view sex in such terms. People are killed over it.

 

[dreambridger]

So maybe I’m not just taking about sex in itself. I’m talking about relationships, sex, and status.

Power isn’t the right word. By power, I mean status or something that is in well regard. For example, sex with an attractive woman who is a model or a pop star is a status symbol for men. However, sex with an unattractive woman would result in no change or major lost to the man’s social status. Another example, a majority of women wouldn’t date a bisexual man because the thought of being left for a man is ego killing, besides the risk of STDs. Gay men wouldn’t date bisexuals for the same reason. Sure, some of this has to do with society. But it taps in the human psyche for some reason.

So what if sex is about pleasure, when it’s the cultural baggage that is attached to it is so volatile. Besides, not everyone is hedonistic enough to view sex in such terms. People are killed over it.

i suppose these things are a reality for many people, but my own approach is to not play that game, step off the game board entirely, forget about status, trophies, jealousy, possessiveness, identity insecurities and all that unnecessary nonsense and simply hope that there will be others with my own outlook, so that I can find genuine love and genuine pleasure with others some day.

The focus on these trivial cultural perversions you bring up (and I do see jealousy and trophy-flaunting as perversions) does indeed alienate the people who seek a genuine connection, so that's a factor that contributes to the loneliness and frustration I expressed in my first reply. Though i don't think I care much whether the love that I hope to find in my life is heteronormative and nuclear and monogamous or if its fringe and poly and experimental, as long as that love is honest, I'll take whatever comes with it. but I haven't found that love yet so I can't draw a conclusion.

 

[Smallteaplant]

i suppose these things are a reality for many people, but my own approach is to not play that game, step off the game board entirely, forget about status, trophies, jealousy, possessiveness, identity insecurities and all that unnecessary nonsense and simply hope that there will be others with my own outlook, so that I can find genuine love and genuine pleasure with others some day.

The focus on these trivial cultural perversions you bring up (and I do see jealousy and trophy-flaunting as perversions) does indeed alienate the people who seek a genuine connection, so that's a factor that contributes to the loneliness and frustration I expressed in my first reply. Though i don't think I care much whether the love that I hope to find in my life is heteronormative and nuclear and monogamous or if its fringe and poly and experimental, as long as that love is honest, I'll take whatever comes with it. but I haven't found that love yet so I can't draw a conclusion.

That’s beautiful. However, is that really the way forward? The culture is becoming more sex negative. The LGBT is going to face an even harder pushback in the coming years. How will that philosophy withstand the storm?

 

[dreambridger]

That’s beautiful. However, is that really the way forward? The culture is becoming more sex negative. The LGBT is going to face an even harder pushback in the coming years. How will that philosophy withstand the storm?

I don't know; it probably won't. I don't think I've even withstood the changes that have all ready come. I'm doomed to anachronism and atavism. Time tends to mow down all who don't adapt. I guess I'm just hoping that I find a small family of friends and lovers that I can build that philosophical fallout shelter with, and pray the storm will forget us. Naive, maybe, but I'm not sure what other options there are for someone of my temperament.

 

[colorfulkent]

Wait. So if I understood you correctly, you think that you're stupid for not outing your friend??

The closet is sticky. When one person is in it they drag others. If this guy slept with his co-worker and the closet co-worker expected him to keep it a secret, the closted guy is dragging the open guy into the closet with him. Doesn't he open guy has as much right to be out and talk about his life? Why is he expected to lie for another person, to hold the closet door. Hey, I say, it's your closet not mine. If you want to be in, be in it, don't open the door a bit, and then expect it close easily. Don't expect others to lie for you. It's your closet, deal with it. I'm not going to make it easier for you by being dishonest. When I came out, I swore to be honest.

 

[colorfulkent]

Sexuality is an identity. It's not a cage. It's an ownership of your voice and power. A recognition of the history of the people who came before you. It is community. Which is why I care about how people exploit it or try to re-define it.

 

[Smallteaplant]

How do you guys feel about the gatekeeping of homosexuality?

 

[deleted2604161]

I'm a biological male gay guy into other biological male gay guys, So the only gate I'm keeping is my own.

 

[Smallteaplant]

Personally, I’m jealous of straight people. I feel like straight people have rules and guidelines. While male homosexuals have nothing. A heterosexual female or male wouldn’t put up with half the shit we picked up.

 

[Jeffer2580]

Personally, I’m jealous of straight people. I feel like straight people have rules and guidelines. While male homosexuals have nothing. A heterosexual female or male wouldn’t put up with half the shit we picked up.

As someone who's been in relationships with both men and women? You are so right but not to generalize,I've had more successful straight relationships than queer ones. I really don't want you guys to lean into the stereotype of "bi/pan men use gay men just for sex and women for beautiful committed relationships" but that's quite the norm for most bi/pan men and I think I'm leaning into that stereotype but I'm definitely gonna end up with a bi/pan woman because she will understand me more

 

[deleted2604161]

If a guy refers to himself as bi or pan, I walk the other way, I don't want to deal with all the baggage that they carry.

 

[Jeffer2580]

If a guy refers to himself as bi or pan, I walk the other way, I don't want to deal with all the baggage that they carry.

It's kinda biphobic as we are all not all monolith but I understand where the prejudice stems from and it's valid

 

[deleted2604161]

I just don't want to invest in a guy who is going to decide one day that he'd rather have the safety and approval of a straight relationship.

 

[AceWilde]

Sort of painting all us bi/pan guys with a wide brush here, which I'm sad to see. As a pan guy in a long term relationship with another guy, not all of us just decide to marry a woman and pretend to be straight. In fact a lot of us have no interest in pretending to be straight even if we are in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. And I would be shocked to hear that anyone who had put years into a relationship would simply "decide one day" that they aren't in love anymore and move on to a different partner regardless of gender or sexuality.

 

[deleted2604161]

The safety of a straight relationship just seems to be more appealing to a lot of bi/pan guys.

 

[Smallteaplant]

Sort of painting all us bi/pan guys with a wide brush here, which I'm sad to see. As a pan guy in a long term relationship with another guy, not all of us just decide to marry a woman and pretend to be straight. In fact a lot of us have no interest in pretending to be straight even if we are in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. And I would be shocked to hear that anyone who had put years into a relationship would simply "decide one day" that they aren't in love anymore and move on to a different partner regardless of gender or sexuality.

I think that it depends on the person and the environment. From my pov, I feel that bisexuals/pansexuals are too risky to date. Heterosexual and homosexual relationships are different because of the sexes that are involved. They’re not the same and it’s foolish to believe so. Most people instinctively acknowledge it as such.

As someone who's been in relationships with both men and women? You are so right but not to generalize,I've had more successful straight relationships than queer ones. I really don't want you guys to lean into the stereotype of "bi/pan men use gay men just for sex and women for beautiful committed relationships" but that's quite the norm for most bi/pan men and I think I'm leaning into that stereotype but I'm definitely gonna end up with a bi/pan woman because she will understand me more

I think that it’s more complicated than “women for marriage and beautiful relationships, and boys for sex”. For one thing, it’s similar to “women for children, and boys for pleasure”. In both cases, people are used. The only difference is that females dictate and desire that their men be heterosexual so that sexual boundaries are drawn. It could be like in the Middle East, where the boundaries are drawn by men.

I doubt that a women would be happy if she finds out her husband was sleeping with men or males, especially in the West. As a homosexual, I love the idea of sexual purity. Women get to dictate what is or not acceptable when it comes to sexual boundaries. Hence, why most bisexuals hide. I just desire the same power.

 

[rbkwp]

sort of thread related
lifetime of the bhs 'sex with m3en'scenario
how about the/a,six with woman scenario,woke folk
and/or society ww
btw
queer,so antiquated/misused/abused
should be banned,like other words
so derogatory,in my books

 

[trav.]

“Queer” is an anti-gay slur.

 

[rbkwp]

“Queer” is an anti-gay slur.

thanks for your thought/opinion
to me,does not have to be ratified by woke folk,or any govt ww
we accepted it when younger,but dare i say6,it was our forgiving attitude then
saving further harassment