Homophobia and the Church

B_Stronzo

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Shelby said:
If you accent the fourth syllable instead of the third homophobia sounds like it could be someone's name.

But it is someone's name.

My mother's sister in here vehement stance "contre moi" has been renamed "Homophobia". We simply call her "B" for short.
 

B_Stronzo

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Lex said:
Stronzo--if the fundies knew HALF the fun we have all the time, they'd be 1000 times MORE upset.

SINFUL indeed!

Big man? My real take?? It's just the extremist notion of homosexuality that unnerves them so. Sex generally is freaking scary to these people. I swear there's something to the "religion" gene some scientists are begininning to propose.

When I heard Donny Osmond, ages ago, say he'd "never received oral sex" (think it was Howard Stern) I nearly shat. The guy's got like 7 kids. Fucking weird.

Oh well. In the truest sense; "they don't know what they're missing" :cool:
 

Matthew

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Stronzo said:
When I heard Donny Osmond, ages ago, say he'd "never received oral sex" (think it was Howard Stern) I nearly shat.

Notice he didn't say he'd never performed it.
 

solong

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Stronzo said:
Wonderful thread. Should get interesting.

I 'basically stopped going to church' because of the Christian stand on human rights for anyone other than heterosexual men.

(Can't wait to hear from Dr. Rock on this one....):biggrin1:

What's the matter, stronzo? Did all those nasty Christians side against you when they found out you are "100% gay and proud of it, and actively pursue a Gay lifestyle, and demand that they accept you like you are?" All the while, you didn't accept them. You were trying to condemn them for not accepting you.

What you need to do is ignore them. What makes you think they are "Christian?" Because they go to church? Sounds like you fell into the same trap they've already fallen into, to me! You know... "Ya gotta be in it to win it." Why don't you read your Bible, for a change. Do something that most Christians wouldn't think of doing. You haven't mentioned one scripture that would nail their butts. Why not? Because I suspect you didn't go to church to learn what God said. You went to church to prove to yourself that Christians are just no good.

When a person decides to join a church, he doesn't do so to "get the goods" on other people. He does it genuinely, to learn, not to accuse. You've told us you did this to accuse. (Maybe you didn't realize you told us that?)

What you didn't say was, "I wanted to know Christ's judgments about things."

You are so self-contradictory I'm amazed. First, you condemn Fundamentalist Christians, carte blanche. Doesn't matter what they think or how different they are. If they believe they are a "Christian," they are your enemy. And if they call themselves a "Fundie," they have your utmost scorn.

Hmm. Isn't that what you hated about them? Their evil, hypocritical "fundamentalism?"

In other words, you hate every Christian and so-called "fundamentalists" (fundies) even though some of them drank poison and commited suicide, and others play with poisonous snakes, and yet others followed David Koresh to his death. Doesn't matter to stronzo. They're all the same, and he doesn't give a shit who knows it. Asd he said in one thread to my signature below, "The difference is, you're Christian, and I'm not." In other words, that gives me the right to bash you, but you have no right to bash me.

So really, stronzo, I don't know who could pity you less-- other gays, or the Lord, Himself. You bring all your problerms on yourself, and then tell us all about it.
 

Lex

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Well, who knew my life would be easier if I just let YOU run it?

I mean--damn--I must be so FUCKING inept that I need your ignorant wisdom to guide me.

Stop being a fucking troll. Your homophobic baiting has offically worn thin in these fora. You came all the way to this thread specifically to beat down a member and make people angry--THAT is trolling.

If you don't like something or someone here--go somewhere else.

solong said:
What's the matter, stronzo? Did all those nasty Christians side against you when they found out you are "100% gay and proud of it, and actively pursue a Gay lifestyle, and demand that they accept you like you are?" All the while, you didn't accept them. You were trying to condemn them for not accepting you.

What you need to do is ignore them. What makes you think they are "Christian?" Because they go to church? Sounds like you fell into the same trap they've already fallen into, to me! You know... "Ya gotta be in it to win it." Why don't you read your Bible, for a change. Do something that most Christians wouldn't think of doing. You haven't mentioned one scripture that would nail their butts. Why not? Because I suspect you didn't go to church to learn what God said. You went to church to prove to yourself that Christians are just no good.

When a person decides to join a church, he doesn't do so to "get the goods" on other people. He does it genuinely, to learn, not to accuse. You've told us you did this to accuse. (Maybe you didn't realize you told us that?)

What you didn't say was, "I wanted to know Christ's judgments about things."

You are so self-contradictory I'm amazed. First, you condemn Fundamentalist Christians, carte blanche. Doesn't matter what they think or how different they are. If they believe they are a "Christian," they are your enemy. And if they call themselves a "Fundie," they have your utmost scorn.

Hmm. Isn't that what you hated about them? Their evil, hypocritical "fundamentalism?"

In other words, you hate every Christian and so-called "fundamentalists" (fundies) even though some of them drank poison and commited suicide, and others play with poisonous snakes, and yet others followed David Koresh to his death. Doesn't matter to stronzo. They're all the same, and he doesn't give a shit who knows it. Asd he said in one thread to my signature below, "The difference is, you're Christian, and I'm not." In other words, that gives me the right to bash you, but you have no right to bash me.

So really, stronzo, I don't know who could pity you less-- other gays, or the Lord, Himself. You bring all your problerms on yourself, and then tell us all about it.
 

B_Stronzo

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solong said:
What's the matter, stronzo? Did all those nasty Christians side against you when they found out you are "100% gay and proud of it, and actively pursue a Gay lifestyle, and demand that they accept you like you are?" All the while, you didn't accept them. You were trying to condemn them for not accepting you.

What you need to do is ignore them. What makes you think they are "Christian?" Because they go to church? Sounds like you fell into the same trap they've already fallen into, to me! You know... "Ya gotta be in it to win it." Why don't you read your Bible, for a change. Do something that most Christians wouldn't think of doing. You haven't mentioned one scripture that would nail their butts. Why not? Because I suspect you didn't go to church to learn what God said. You went to church to prove to yourself that Christians are just no good.

When a person decides to join a church, he doesn't do so to "get the goods" on other people. He does it genuinely, to learn, not to accuse. You've told us you did this to accuse. (Maybe you didn't realize you told us that?)

What you didn't say was, "I wanted to know Christ's judgments about things."

You are so self-contradictory I'm amazed. First, you condemn Fundamentalist Christians, carte blanche. Doesn't matter what they think or how different they are. If they believe they are a "Christian," they are your enemy. And if they call themselves a "Fundie," they have your utmost scorn.

Hmm. Isn't that what you hated about them? Their evil, hypocritical "fundamentalism?"

In other words, you hate every Christian and so-called "fundamentalists" (fundies) even though some of them drank poison and commited suicide, and others play with poisonous snakes, and yet others followed David Koresh to his death. Doesn't matter to stronzo. They're all the same, and he doesn't give a shit who knows it. Asd he said in one thread to my signature below, "The difference is, you're Christian, and I'm not." In other words, that gives me the right to bash you, but you have no right to bash me.

So really, stronzo, I don't know who could pity you less-- other gays, or the Lord, Himself. You bring all your problerms on yourself, and then tell us all about it.

This would be the ramblings of a troll.
 

solong

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Stronzo said:
Wonderful thread. Should get interesting.

I 'basically stopped going to church' because of the Christian stand on human rights for anyone other than heterosexual men.

(Can't wait to hear from Dr. Rock on this one....):biggrin1:

You know, when I first started going to church, I first tried to study the Bible on my own, first, so I'd know a little about what I was getting into and what I should expect. Then I attended this one and that one and really struggled with some of those outfits. They were not "christian" at all, as far as I was concerned.

I finally gave it all up. I don't go to church at all, today. But, you know, I still study the Bible, and use a Concordance, and have gotten pretty good in Hebrew and Greek, as a layman. And I still don't condemn "ALL CHRISTIANS" and "ALL FUNDIES" and lump them all together, and get bitter about it.

Lots of people do the same thing, I suspect. There's a verse that says, "If they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them." That isn't talking about just Muslims. That's talking about everybody, but particularly Christians who pretend.

It's still possible for gays to attend a church, just to see how long it takes for them to be rejected and start to feel ostracized. Only they know their attitude. But to lump ALL Christians together, is to be guilty of the thing you are accusing them of. Hypocrisy. While that may work for you and your friends patting you on the back, it just shows a fair-minded individual without prejudice that you are the person you accuse all others of being.
 

invisibleman

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Stronzo said:
With all due respect Dude,

Any church, fraternal organization, country club, etc. which tells me that something I am by birthright is inherently wrong or "sinful" can simply fuck off.

So that includes the Bible in its existing form.

Amen to that, Stronzo!!!!!

:smile:
 

osxwrangler

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Fuck the Church! Organized religion has done more harm to humanity than anything else. The Christians and the Muslims are the worst.

I finally left the Methodist church some years ago. The Church (as they call it - not my congregation but the national body) constantly wrung their collective hands and argued as to what to do with our people in the church. I got so tired of that crap I left never to return.

I joined a local Unitarian-Universalist congregation. Whew! What a relief! Those folks have it together. They got over the homo thing in the late '60s. They treated me like everyone else.

If you're into religion at all I comment the UU church to you. It's a great place.
 

DC_DEEP

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solong said:
What's the matter, stronzo? Did all those nasty Christians side against you when they found out you are "100% gay and proud of it, and actively pursue a Gay lifestyle, and demand that they accept you like you are?" All the while, you didn't accept them. You were trying to condemn them for not accepting you.
Speaking for myself and no one else, it really does not concern me whether or not anyone else "accepts" me.
What you need to do is ignore them.
I do ignore them, the problem is they don't ignore me. I am not lumping all religious believers together, but the ones I have a problem with are the ones who want control over certain aspects of my life. I have no desire to legislate and regulate what two consenting christians want to do in the privacy of their own homes. Why should they want to put those restrictions on me?
Why don't you read your Bible, for a change. Do something that most Christians wouldn't think of doing. You haven't mentioned one scripture that would nail their butts. Why not? Because I suspect you didn't go to church to learn what God said. You went to church to prove to yourself that Christians are just no good.
I did read the bible, cover to cover, several times. I went to church to learn. I tried to be a christian and to believe, but the more I learned, the less I believed. I do not believe in the bible, and I resent anyone who tries to hold me accountable to their religion.
... that gives me the right to bash you, but you have no right to bash me.
I've seen this argument used on both sides. How 'bout if neither side bashes or oppresses the other, but simply follows the <gasp!> golden rule?
 

JustAsking

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DC_DEEP said:
I have no desire to legislate and regulate what two consenting christians want to do in the privacy of their own homes. Why should they want to put those restrictions on me?

I agree. Why are the conservative Christians such enemies of freedom?
 

philboy

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I have always been puzzled by the established "churches" combined attitude to homosexuality.
I believe the Christian Church in its many forms (dominated by the Roman Catholics ) has relied on a somewhat vague interpretation of an early doctrine to "outlaw" gay philosophy.
I have no wish to offend anyone who carries this doctrinal view- that is their right- but it seems to me to hold no water.
There is even a suggestion that early disciples of the Christian Church may have been gay: perhaps this is why male and female homosexuality has been so heavily proscribed over time by "the Church".
What evidence we have appears to suggest that "gayness" has existed in all walks of life in most societies as long as men (and women!) have been around.
Also the "bible belt" attitude to this topic in the Land of the Free is another issue which baffles me. But you guys in the USA can put me (an Englishman) right on that one.
 

B_Stronzo

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JustAsking said:
Why are the conservative Christians such enemies of freedom?

That's the most astute question yet asked on this thread in my opinion.

It's my considered opinion that the primary reason is that (most) heterosexual men like being in charge. The Bible in all its forms (whether or not you believe it was the word of God or not) was written by men who wanted to establish permanent positions of autocracy in order to make subservient anyone other than themselves.

To me the answer lies in the social set up of what I'll call "Bible mythology". From the very beginning in Genesis woman is relegated to second place right off the bat since she first "tempted man". It's so socially ingrained that what many find "The Word of God" I see so clearly as "the word of man". I had very formal Bible training as a child growing up. I attended Sunday school and went to Bible study on Wednesday evenings. I never took it as anything more than education, though many did. I never thought of it as absolute truth though many did. It simply never occured to me that it was anything more than a biased opinion. I was always amazed that so many took it so seriously. It just seemed, for me, as though I was reading some ancient fable.

I still hold to that same feeling.

JustAsking? To speak more specifically to your question; People like me threaten the very foundation of everything conservative Christians stand for: procreation, "family" (in their sense), and fear of ultimate retribution for enjoying this thing we call existence.
 

prepstudinsc

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DC_DEEP said:
I do not believe in the bible, and I resent anyone who tries to hold me accountable to their religion.I've seen this argument used on both sides. How 'bout if neither side bashes or oppresses the other, but simply follows the <gasp!> golden rule?

*gasp* But that's a BIBLICAL principal, one that Jesus told us by which to live. Read Matthew 7:12
"12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." or Luke 6:31 "31Do to others as you would have them do to you."
 

B_Stronzo

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philboy said:
Also the "bible belt" attitude to this topic in the Land of the Free is another issue which baffles me. But you guys in the USA can put me (an Englishman) right on that one.

No need. You're right enough as is. This "Land of the Free" business is a dreadfully selective concept these days in the U.S.A.

Your bafflement is precisely my own. And I'm a generational American.
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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prepstudinsc said:
*gasp* But that's a BIBLICAL principal, one that Jesus told us by which to live. Read Matthew 7:12
prepstudinsc said:
"12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." or Luke 6:31 "31Do to others as you would have them do to you."


Pretty universal, I'd say. Even Kant's Categorical Imperative is quite similar.