Homophobia

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Imported, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. Imported

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    croixbull: This board is suffering from a serious low point so I thought I would start a hot one to revive interest.

    HOMOPHOBIA - Fear of homosexual people [definition]

    Right up front I want to say that this is not an opportunity to bash or flame here.

    What are your experiences?
    Been on the receiving end?
    Been on the dishing out end?
    Why do you think people are homophobic?
    Why are you, if you are?

    Thanks guys and gals,
    CB
     
  2. Imported

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    SpeedoGuy: I'm straight and am have never had anything resembling a gay encounter.  Through my school years I never did anything like size comparisons with my guy friends as some others have written about in other threads on this board. Homosexuality doesn't offend me but it doesn't interest me very much either. I do, however, enjoy reading some of the thoughtful or funny posts by gay guys on this board.

    Over the years I've had a few come ons from gay guys (because of the Levi's bulge I guess) but I just tell them I'm not interested. No rage or righteous condemnations or threats. None of them were aggressive or pursued the matter further. Smple as that. From my perspective I don't understand why so many people are homophobic.

    SG
     
  3. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    I am a lucky dude. I hear reports of fag-bashing often enough that I should be scared, but I'm not. Right now I live in New Orleans, which is very tolerant of homosexuality, but even when I lived in Shreveport, LA, which reeks of redneck yahoo mentality, I had very few run-ins with homophobes. I hear of teenagers who were kicked out of their homes and disowned when their parents learned of their sexuality. I came out to folks when I was fifteen, and they assured me that they would always love me, their son, unconditionally. I hear of guys ostracised at school when they were outed. I was popular and well-accepted in high school even though my sexual orientation was not exactly a secret. I'm still good friends with some of my straight former classmates. I hear the tragedies resulting from homophobia and consider myself lucky that I'm not one of the casualties. One of the things I find refreshing about LPSG is the lack of intolerance. The men and women here don't bash us in their posts. (On the old board, there were two notable exceptions, as I'm sure some remember. Happily, they didn't follow us to the new board.) People may disagree with me and fling insults at me in my IM box (in fact, they do), but it's never because I'm gay. Here even the teenagers have respect for us as human beings ... how rare is that? So, I'd like to thank all the straight people at LPSG for being so accepting. If only the world could be like you.
     
  4. Imported

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    mentatzps: In school I never said I was gay, and my classmates appreciated me because of my humour and my kindness. When I told some of them my sexuality, they didn't change their mind about me, and I also learned that some of them were gay too. I never really had problem with anyone.

    When I told my parents, they totally accepted me as I am and they said I was their son, anyway. I am lucky... :p In Belgium people are very open-minded (but they are exceptions, of course and unfortunately)

    I totally agree with DMW and would also thank you the straight guys, especially those who had the kindness to chat a little with me.

    You're great, guys (in every meaning ;-) ) and girls too.
    :)
     
  5. Imported

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    SpeedoGuy: I forgot to add that I grew up in the San Francisco area so I had occasional exposure to gay culture in my youth. I didn't like the militant gay movement I sometimes saw there but I did admire the creativity of artists and writers who also happened to be gay. In any case, accepting gay people as individuals didn't seem like something I had to do to prove I was "tolerant", it just seemed like common sense.

    I do shudder to remember the endless gay bad- mouthing that went on in middle school. "Fag" was always the worst insult in anyone's quiver of labels. It was occasionally dropped on me. In addition, I infrequently saw some minor physical abuse of those accused of being being gay. It was obvious that the virulence of hatred toward gays I saw in so many young men could easilyspill over into real violence. I just don't understand where it comes from.
     
  6. Imported

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    croixbull: Hey,
    People have different experiences that color their outlook on things (of course).

    Reasons I've found are:
    1. They feel threatened. They don't understand it and therefore it is bad.
    2. They have huge issues of unresolved hatred, jealousy, envy or other issues that is focused conveniently on homosexuals to dodge any owning up of their issues. They become consumed by unresolved issues. (I believe this is a major factor in racism too).
    3. They were molested or raped at some point in their lives. Remember, many times when a guy is raped, he is laughed at by the police or it is insinuated that it wouldn't have happened if he was "more of a man". A rapist, gay or straight, is a fucking psycho criminal pure and simple.
    4. Their upbringing included strong religious indoctrination that takes the whole issue an puts it into a moral all or nothing situation. Religion is fine. When you force your religious beliefs on someone else, its not fine. Look at the world and its history.
    5. Most of all, they fear their own gay feelings and there hate what they are. They hate gays with a passion but really they hate themselves.

    More fodder for the discussion
    CB
     
  7. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    My straight friends tell me that a large part of the reason that I'm accepted is because of my demeanour. I have nothing against 'flaming queens', but that's just not me. Effeminacy in a man makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Maybe I'm not a target because people who don't know me have no clue that I'm gay. For a while, there was a rumour going around the clubs where I dance that I was straight! :eek: Some people just get too hung up on stereotypes.
     
  8. Imported

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    sammygirly: Oy, such a topic :D

    One of my closest friends is a gay male and I tease him all the time about being the worst fag I know (consequently, "fag" is not an insult between us, please don't be offended for him) because he refuses to fall into the stereotyped. *Sigh* I watch girly movies alone and refuse to help him fix his car. I'm such a poorly done-by hag...

    Honestly, I think homophobia stems from just that - the expected stereotype. The truth of the matter is, most homosexuals don't fall into those set stereotyped. Unless you live in vegas, the dolled-up, flaming queens just aren't the norm. We've all seen on TV how fags come on to EVERY male they meet right? Hardly discriminatory in their flirting and obvious to boot...so you KNOW if you meet a fag he's going to come on to you right?

    Wrong. Most likely, he has better taste LOL.

    Seriously, biases are biases no matter who they're directed at. I don't agree with DMW quite a bit of the time...but it has nothing to do with his homosexual nature.

    We just all know he's a tad opinionated LMAO *hiss*
     
  9. Imported

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    aussiechick63: I am a straight female (with strong bi-curious urges) with a very close male friend that is gay. I am also married to a homophobe. It is a very interesting combination. My husband doesn't want to be near my friend and at times it can be quite obvious. I think maybe my husband is scared of the whole gay thing that it may effect his manhood. Maybe they think if they become friends with a gay it might make them gay. Who knows or can understand their reasoning. I don't think it is a great deal different to racists.
    My buddy and I have some of the most open sexual convos and I don't feel threatened or embarrassed in any way. He is a very "out there" gay.

    I believe a mother's love is unconditional. Being the parent of a 17 and 16 year old girls I don't have any hesitation in saying I would love them no matter what their sexuality. They are still my girls. I know this is an issue a lot of gay people have when they come out to their parents. There are parents that can't accept their children for who they are and that is very sad.

    The world is made up of all different sorts of people, if only they could all learn to live in harmony and be accepting of others faults and shortcomings, the world would be a far nicer place to live.
     
  10. Imported

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    AnonyMs: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=relationships;num=1049507919;start=0#2 date=04/04/03 at 20:59:58]So, I'd like to thank all the straight people at LPSG for being so accepting. If only the world could be like you. [/quote]DMW: I adore you, sweetie, but if you ever start talking like a Republican, you are in BIG trouble! :)
     
  11. Imported

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    Icarus213: Balance in all things.
     
  12. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    [quote author=sammygirly link=board=relationships;num=1049507919;start=0#7 date=04/05/03 at 12:55:24]Unless you live in vegas, the dolled-up, flaming queens just aren't the norm.[/quote]

    You've never been to New Orleans, have you?

    Of course I am ... we homos are like that, you know! ;D
     
  13. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    [quote author=AnonyMs link=board=relationships;num=1049507919;start=0#9 date=04/05/03 at 18:15:47]
    DMW:  I adore you, sweetie, but if you ever start talking like a Republican, you are in BIG trouble!  :)

    [/quote]

    Not a fucking chance, Ms. Nony; my friends have orders to gun me down if I get anywhere near Republicanism! :D
     
  14. Imported

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    Mighty_Joe: In my many years of being gay, I've encountered a few examples of homophobia. One was from a guy I worked with who loved to tell people I was "queer" (I hate that word!) What is funny is that he gave me a blow job a few years later! Another time my SO invited a few younger guys over for drinks...one of them worked in the same place he did...and after awhile one of them guy up and said loudly to his friends "OK guys - we don't like queers - let's wreck this place." I guess I showed how "butch" I was because I grabbed him and shoved him towards the door. He had brought a PVC pipe under his pants and had started swinging at us. I got a bad lick on my wrist but they left without other incidents. One of them apologized as he ran out the door saying "man, I swear, I didn't know this was going to happen". I guess we have been lucky...I have known a few friends who have been killed. One was a lesbian and the other a "drag" queen. To my knowledge no one has been prosecuted for either murder! That's sad!
     
  15. Imported

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    Mighty_Joe: In the fifth line of my above post, I said "one of them guy up" and I should have said ONE OF THEM GOT UP.
    Guess I need to proofread better before posting!
     
  16. jay_too

    jay_too New Member

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    last fall over buffalo wings and whatever with the guyz from work, the conversation drifted to homosexuality. basically, the group split into three camps. homosexuality is morally repugnant, it is a life-style issue, and the duo that said "so what, it is their bedroom, and it is a privacy issue."

    the morally repugnant group tended to be turned-off by the concept but tolerant of the individuals. those saying it was a life-style issue were rabid. to simplify their logic, sexual orientation is changeable as turning one switch in the brain off and another one on. period. we must protect......yada, yada, yada.

    my contribution ot the conversation...read diatribe...was to comment that abstinence seemed like an awfully high price for gays to pay for liking guyz and that it seemed to me that it was heterosexual unions and not gays were prodcuing more gays. was this helpful? naah, but it did raise the blood pressure of a couple of guyz.

    the next day i went to lunch with my supporter in the homo war...the major protagonist had been a classmate of his in college. surprise...he had put himself school as a male excort for guyz. as a college student, he bragged about how much he raked in....but after college, he had a vision or something and repented his sins...and become a true homophobe.

    since this conversation, i have become really sensitive to the phrase life-style issues. almost all the time, it is trying to hide rabid homophobia. maybe it is just the people i have bumped into.

    i know this adds zilch to the discussion...but i am trying to understand why an outsider thinks he should make major decisions for another....errrr, maybe i should mention that i am not gay...and often clueless.

    jay
     
  17. benderten2001

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    I find this community....the LPSG, to be made up of a number of interesting people from all walks of life.

    Indeed, we all seemingly get along so very well, too!

    I've learned alot--so much from each posting it seems--no matter "who" said it or from "which" direction in life that comment represents. I think this is good.

    I launched a subject sometime ago now about this forum being a "strange" place for a man of Christian faith and principles to "be a part of ". Nothing has changed for me in my previously expressed views.
    I am still resolved that as men, we NEED to feel good about ourselves and learn to courageously address and confront any "unresolved" issues about our sexuality..no matter what they are.

    Sexual orientation is not one of my concerns when I meet other people. I do (and must) reserve the right however to be allowed to make my own choices; to not be "required" in fact to accept lifestyle concepts that are contrary to my own value systems...(in order to stay on a friendly basis with others.) I believe in allowing the other person to make his or her own choices in life--what's right for them at that point of their life's walk. I simply ask to be allowed the same courtesy.

    I have grown to despise "labels" regarding other people, the whole laundry list of them, too. I deplore those terms, however they are used. What rubbish.

    I am personally not happy with how many in the "Christian community" have treated homosexuals. The overt cruel hatred and condescending manner I have seen and heard about through the years is not at all reflective of (nor is it becoming to) the Christ whom these followers supposedly "represent." No wonder there is so much confusion and negative attitudes about spiritual faith and "religion". I want to assure anyone reading here that not all Christians behave this way.

    Christ taught to "not judge lest WE be judged".
    --That's enough for me to go on and to try to live by.
    Add to this an effort to extend love and consideration to the other person. I believe that's how Christians are to face the issue of sexual orientation issues. It doesn't have to mean the acceptance of a lifestyle--instead, it's recognizing the value of the individual as a person that matters most. Admittedly, it so easily becomes such a challenge in today's pressure-filled society; it's difficult to be "at peace" with each other regarding many of life's issues. I for one, am still trying to be a good example of loving and respecting others. But, admittedly, I'm still far from where I want to be.
    I still tend to "slip up". :(

    This forum represents topics that ALL men relate to and must consider...regardless of sexual persuasion.

    The fact that we all can get along so well is a tribute to each of us as members and speaks highly of the success that we have had thusfar to help one another learn and feel better about otherwise "hush-hush" topics.

    I trust we can all continue to have harmony here.
     
  18. Imported

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    Finedessert: "I trust we can all continue to have harmony here."

    Benderten:

    Your post was well said (all of it).

    It's as if you picked what's left of my brain. ;)

    Grandpa
     
  19. Imported

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    miniver_cheevy: i have run into some real (though very subtle) homophobia in the work place. i decided i would never play the "gay card" and never did. actually i can remember several not so sutble example of homophobia in my workplace.

    for years in washington, dc i tried to make my living as a freelance camera operator in the news business. i am pretty much not easily identifiable as a gay man, but would never lie and parade around as if i were straight. you couldn't really be outwardly gay, because they would never hire you.

    i also got a lot of discrimination on film sets in the grip/electric departments. sure you could be out in the art department, or producing, or even editing -- but for some reason the macho departments (which i was always drawn to for some reason -- i like to make things difficult for myself, i guess :) -- were almost repugnantly straight.

    basically, most of my fellow cameramen were some of the biggest straight a-holes i ever met. :eek:

    for example, my longest gig was at c-span. i worked at c-span for four years. i tried to make it in the field department, but hit the pink ceiling and got kept in the studio. after 4 years they hired a straight guy who had been there less than a year over me to a higher up position. (so i quit:)

    believe it not, as cool a company as c-span did not have "sexual orientation" included in their non-discrimination clause. (and i wouldn't be surpised if they still did not, though i brought it up several times with their human resources manager over the years.)

    having said all this, i have some personality problems* which might be to blame, but still i fervantly feel that some areas of the american workplace are extremely homophobic. some areas of the country are worse too.

    the film sets where i worked in richmond, va, for example, were INCREDIBLY homophobic. i never heard the word "fag" so many times in my life, and felt very threatened. i certainly couldn't have come out there.

    washington, dc, on the other hand was much more cool, and baltimore was even better. black dudes had a harder time in baltimore i noticed, for some reason, and it was easier for them in dc. (not black gay dudes, just black dudes, i mean.) that was weird, because there's about the same percentage of black folks in baltimore as in washington (50%).

    *for example, i never felt comfortable about coming out to co-workers, thus they never really got to know me in the true sense, and felt apart from me, as if i wasn't a whole person -- and then i would never get work or re-hired, because i was like this quiet mystery guy. it was kind of a whole catch 22 situtation, i guess, for me anyway.

    there were some, few out gay guys on the crews, but i think they were a lot tougher than me, also they were generation x'ers whereas i was baby-boomer, maybe that had something to do with it.

    one that's glad to be out of the "biz"
     
  20. jay_too

    jay_too New Member

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    bendertender..

    i guess that apologies are in order. i did not mean to attack christians and certainly not you for i have enjoyed the substance and wisdom of your posts....but to understand the mindset of those who are overly concerned (my bias) with what others do in the privacy of their bedroom and use social and institutional barriers to exclude or discriminate against a small minority. yes, in the year i have been out of school, i have seen the barriers put up by co-workers to those who they suspect of being gay...."forgetting" to tell a suspected gay that there is a meeting or "forgetting" to tell him to be prepared to discuss ___ or make a progress report, etc. can i prove any of this? nope....but you know it seems like the same guyz are always targeted for communication problems. me? well they always double or triple-check to make sure that i am ready.

    in the three or four months that i have had to mull over the conversation on "it's a life-style issue," i have decided that whoever coined the phrase probably was driven by hormones or seduced by a friend into a homosexual liason or.... when the situation/circumstances changed, he reverted to a hetreosexual mode. no problem. hey, for him sexual orientation is just a choice. when in fact, he was not born gay.

    i believe that there is suggestive evidence for the existence of a sexual gyroscope within that determines sexual orientation. some spin one-way; and others the opposite.

    i think i am a practicing, maybe not an attending christian...definitely not too deep. wesley's admonitions of 150 years ago make sense to me....do no harm, do good, and obey god's laws.

    jay
     
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