Homophobic Murders ...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Nelly Gay, Jun 20, 2006.

  1. Nelly Gay

    Nelly Gay New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Recently two homophobic psychopaths were given 28 years (life?) for the murder of a gay man in Clapham, London.
    They wanted to kill a "poofter".
    Sadly, the media is bleating about hate crimes and "preferential" sentences.
    We have not gone so far from the Matthew Shepherd case !
     
  2. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    In view of the other 1306 homophobic crimes reported in London last year, it's sadly all too true that the horrific case of Jody Dobrowski (so battered by his attackers that he had to be identified from his fingerprints) is just one extreme example of a widespread phenomenon.

    To speak of 'preferential' sentencing in this case is to support barbarism implicitly, regardless of one's own feelings with regard to homosexuality.

    Full article from which the quotes below are taken, at:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5080164.stm

    "Jody's killing was (...) one of a string of attacks on Clapham Common.

    In September 2005 a gay man survived after being garrotted with a piece of wire by an attacker on the common. Two weeks later another man was beaten unconscious.

    Five months after Jody's murder yet another violent attack in the same area left a gay man with severe facial injuries and a broken leg.

    The problem is by no means confined to the capital.

    In July 2005 a 52-year-old man suffered facial injuries after he was kicked to the ground in Southampton.

    In December a gay priest, the Most Reverend Dr Barry Rathbone, was attacked with a metal baseball bat in a Bournemouth park. His attacker was later jailed for two years.

    There has also been a series of violent attacks in Londonderry.

    But these incidents were probably just the tip of the iceberg, say both the police and gay campaigners.

    Even in openly gay communities, such as Canal Street in Manchester, or Old Compton Street in London, attacks take place - sometimes by gangs who go there deliberately to seek out victims.

    Gay human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell says: "As many lesbians and gay men feel more comfortable about their sexuality, their increased visibility makes them vulnerable to being targeted by gay-bashing gangs."

    Mr Tatchell says the typical attacker is young, poorly educated and unemployed, with their motivation stemming either from their religious background or from insecurity and fear about their own sexuality.

    In some cases, however, gays and lesbians may be targeted simply because they are seen as easy victims.
    Police say assaults are as likely to be carried out by opportunistic attackers as by gangs of organised homophobes.

    The frequency of homophobic attacks is hard to quantify, as police forces are not obliged to compile figures.
    A 1999 study by the National Advisory Group found 66% of 2,500 respondents had been a victim of a homophobic incident."
     
  3. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is disturbing on so many levels. Naively I had long believed that England was more gay-tolerant -- or at least less homophobic -- than America, but apparently that is not so. I haven't come across any studies that conclusviely indicate the primary motivating factor for these hate crrimes. The usual suspects of poorly educated young men who are sexually insecure certainly seem to crop up often enough anecdotally. In that trove of information you seem to have at your fingertips, Alex8, do you know of any definitive studies?
     
  4. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    COLJohn, it is rampant, world-wide. I have posted on this topic before, but most respondees had the usual "uber-complacency." I've been accused of distorting the facts, hysteria, etc etc blah blah.... but the fact remains that every single week, in The Washington Blade, I read articles, probably at least 15 new ones weekly (if not more) of men and women beaten and/or raped and/or killed simply because they are gay. How do we know? When a gang hangs out, outside a known "gay establishment," to wait for their victims, it's pretty damned obvious. Just as sad as the fact that it happens at all is the fact that it is almost never a one-on-one fight. These disgusting, cowardly homophobes travel in packs, like hyenas, waiting for a chance to attack.

    Perhaps we need a different approach. Perhaps the people in general are tired or even wary of labelling as a hate crime. Perhaps the media need to publish front-page photos of the victims' mutilated bodies, with a simple caption "Another victim of unprovoked attacks by violence advocacy groups." Perhaps eventually, after looking at enough mangled flesh, the light would go on in even one person's head, and they will say "Enough."
     
  5. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    With regard to the police in Britain, the profile of perpetrators of homophobic crimes is obscured by the fact that the police offers up a profile only of hate crime perpetrators in general, i.e. "The typical hate offender is a young white male (most homophobic offenders are aged 16-20, and most race hate offenders under 30) who lives locally to the victim. The majority of hate crimes happen near to the victim's home while they are going about their daily business, and an offence is most likely to be committed between 3pm and midnight."

    In a broader context, research into homophobic attitudes (and homophobic violence) by psychologists such as Karen Franklin may offer some insight, although once again, input from police forces would be useful:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/
    (sadly, several of the more interesting links no longer work)
     
  6. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    DC, I am aware of the publicized brutality but wrote it off as media sensationalism because most people I know think it's despicable behavior, even those who are inclined to make jokes about homosexuality but who aren't aggressively homophobic. Homosexuals and Jews seem to be unprotected by the shield of political correctness. Otherwise there would be more public outcry.

    Alex8, thanks for the links. My previous readings of James didn't include his thinking on this issue. I agree that concentrating on societal rather than individual attitudes will be most productive.
     
  7. Joseph

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    582
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    Verified:
    Photo
    now wait a minute... MURDER?
    England is one of the smarter lands!
    My Poland is the moronic country that hates people for they're sexual orientation... and I still did not hear about any homosexual being murdered... that is weird... sure people here use baseball bats or throw eggs during gay demonstrations for equal rights, but murder?

    I dont understand this...
     
  8. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    And you probably have less freedom in your news media about this sort of thing. Even at that, only the most horrific murders here (and probably UK) make the "mainstream media." Lesbians gang-raped to "teach 'em to like a real man" just aren't great news stories. Nor is a man beaten to a coma, but not killed, by 6 queer-haters. Interesting, perhaps. News? Not usually.
     
  9. Shelby

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    in the internet
    Dudes, at some levels I sympathize with your plight. But basically I hate the idea of hate crime. Crime is crime. If joe white guy gets his ass beat for being in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time does everyone get all outraged about hate crime?
     
  10. D_alex8

    D_alex8 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    But is "Joe White" being attacked because he is white, or heterosexual, or 'average'? No, he fuckin' isn't. You said it yourself: he was "in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time".

    It's a wholly different scenario to be targeted specifically because one is a certain gender, race, ethnicity or sexuality.

    What you're suggesting is akin to saying that there's no such thing as 'genocide', because 'mass murder' covers that notion adequately. :rolleyes:
     
  11. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    Actually, yes, I do. But that still is not the same. When was the last time a gang of atheists waited outside your church and killed the next person to walk out? Or a gang of queers waited outside a titty-bar, and then screamed "you goddamn hetro" as they beat an exiting patron to death?
     
  12. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    alex..

    Shelby always takes this approach.

    I think if he walked for a week or so in our light loafers he'd come at this debate with a differing POV.

    No. "crime is NOT crime". Were you to be singled-out because you simply seemed too heterosexually male Shelby for a lynching, a beating, or a target practice I suspect you'd understand the need for hate crime legislation.

    Early on when I joined this board "Gottabigone" and I got into a similar row because he felt precisely as you do Shelby. I understand your not wanting to put various ethnicities and minorities in a "them" category and of course that is the ideal. But to disallow it seems dreadfully callous especially in light of that fact that unless you can tell me you've ever been physically threatened for something innately you .... you just don't have a right to posture yourself the way you're doing.
     
  13. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,730
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Plimoth Plantation
    Fuck man! Good answer...............:cool:
     
  14. Shelby

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    in the internet
    Thanks for catching my drift. I try to aim high.

    That being said I do sympathize.
     
  15. jeff black

    jeff black <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,866
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    CANADA
    The problem with some of these "hate crimes", is that a person(or group) gets caught up in what they are doing, and gets carried away. People often lose control when they are excited about something.

    THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE ANY SORT OF VIOLENCE. (just so people know)

    This may just be me being too innocent for my own good, but, I don't think alot of people realize what they are doing until it is done. People who attack gay men, may feel some twisted sense of righteousness for doing this. They could be closeted homosexuals, or homophobes.

    I don't really know what I am saying here, I just wanted to say that I think people attack for a reason, and then get carried away, and that is when murder starts. I don't think people specifically go out to kill a homo.
     
  16. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    But see, Jeff, that is definitely a problem. People who "get caught up and get carried away," people who "lose control when they are excited about something," people "get carried away" to the point of murder... that sounds to me like a SERIOUS mental illness. They need to be taken OFF THE STREETS. And your comment, "I don't think people specifically go out to kill a homo", well, why else would a group of five or more hang outside a gay bar, then follow someone who leaves, and beat them to death? If that is not premeditated intent, what is?
     
  17. Dr Rock

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    dunno where you picked up THAT idea, chief
     
  18. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    And while I'm at it, what do you think public reaction would be if a group of women (armed with some serious weapons, say stun guns and nightsticks) attacked and tortured a guy, then strung him up on a fence to die? Her claim? "He touched my breast when we were at the bar, and I panicked."
     
  19. Lex

    Lex
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    9,536
    Likes Received:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    If crimes were just crimes, people would receive the same sentence for the same crimes, regardless of the victim's or perpetrator's sex, race, or orientation. This has never been the case. Thus, the idea of "Hate Crimes" was established to, in effect, level a field that is woefully unbalanced. To drive home the fact that committing a crime for no other reason than someone's being different from you, is especially unaccpeptable in a country we purport to be a melting pot.
     
  20. jeff black

    jeff black <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    11,866
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    CANADA
    I agree, it is a problem DC.

    Specific mental illness? Nah, not gonna go that far. Anger, Rage..... they are all passionate emotions.We have all heard of the father, who beat the piss out of a guy who raped his daughter. One can lose control of them just as easy as you can lose control of your Lust during sex.

    Am I using that comment as an excuse to Ok Violence? Not a chance, I just know for a fact that some people have better control over themselves in situations.

    You know what, I don't think they want to go out and kill him. A gang of arrogant assholes, possibly closeted, just want to exude their manliness to their "friends". (NOT AN EXCUSE)
    They want to put a hurtin' on all things they dont' agree with...I just don't think they INTEND to kill anyone.. beat them yes... but not kill. People know murder is bad, and honestly.... I think it was an accident 6 times out of 10.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted