Homosexuality and hypermasculinity: the vague connection

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by B_henry miller, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. B_henry miller

    B_henry miller New Member

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    I was just looking at the Jon Cena thread, and this occurred to me. I'm not saying he's gay, but it struck me as odd that here you have an example of the hyper-masculine man that would be embraced by middle America. But also, that body on him looks just like the body on many men in gay porn.

    I've always been intrigued by this. It's so weird, but a lot of times there is this connection between very masculine/macho men and gayness. It seems that any man who is pushing his masculinity to that extreme, who spends that much time focused on his own masculinity, seems a little gay. ("Not that there's anything wrong with it.")
     
  2. marleyisalegend

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    me personally i don't like those big muscle types with the veins popping out everywhere, it reminds me of MTV true life i'm a bodybuilder where the guy said he wasn't gonna stop workin out until he had striations on his ass. gross lol
     
  3. B_enter today

    B_enter today New Member

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    I've noticed the same thing. To me, it's like, if you're trying really hard to push how "manly" you are, you're either really into yourself, you're compensating for something (see my sig below) you want to be able to defend yourself from someone like The Rock, or you want to impress your significant other. If it's not one of the above, its cuz you're trying to win money in bodybuilding contest.
    IMO
     
  4. Northland

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    Hmm...Speaking of overly focused:

    (all from you by the way)
    Are gay men often fatherless sons?


    I'm very jealous (that no one comments on my cock!)

    The penis and male identity

    Hey, straight guys -- do you feel weird coming here too?

    Question for gay men regarding str8 men

    What's it like to be a jock?

    It's beautiful to be a man

    Question for women about str8 male gayness

    Male empathy
    And yet your profile says you're 100% straight: (not that there's anything wrong with that)



    Biography: Tanya, where now is that warm cunt of yours?
    Location: Big Sur, California Occupation: Gangster-author Gender: Male Sexual Orientation: 100% Straight, 0% Gay Languages Spoken: English, Spanish
     
  5. Hellboy0

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    There does seem to be a bit of a connection. But maybe it's more that Gay men are kinda forced to consider what being 'male' means, whereas the average Straight man doesn't really think about it because he already 'fits in'. That consideration can mean a bit of experimentation to find where we fit in that spectrum...usually ending up with some of us loving our sexuality, our maleness which is not unique to Gay men but is in fact the legacy of all men.

    I have loved my journey and have settled into a place where I love being a man, part of which is sexually active, equally dominate and aggressive, and submissive. Funny thing is, my lady friends are seeing this recent 'remembering' as well as my male ones. And I get some pretty interesting offers from both because of it. I just take the back-and-forth flirting in the vein it's given (I am married after all) but it's great to have this one sort of power.

    So, not sure I AM hypermasculine (nah...definitely don't fit that definition) but definitely masculine.
     
  6. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    the only connection is the maleness

    the straight fellow indulging without the sexual connotation

    the gay fellow enjoying the sexuality of it


    [BTW, Northland, I was thinking along the same lines]
     
  7. B_becominghorse

    B_becominghorse New Member

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    A macho look becoming very popular goes back to the 70s clones, although there were always bodybuilders who were worshipped by the more effeminate. The 'hypermasculine' look is definitely got a gay mutation, though. I don't care that much for it, the muscles too big with all sorts of guys looking like old Mr. Americas. Sure, it's over-compensation, and it only works within certain limited contexts.

    Main thing--it is a look for the most part. Some of the same guys could also really BE macho, but macho does not have anything to do with what you look like. Their are many homely guys who are very macho and pay no attention to their looks. This kind of extreme gymming is a form of grooming, because it goes well beyond what is necessary for muscle tone and good health (ballet dancers have much more beautiful bodies than super-muscled guys IMO). When that is the case, it is like women primping. I do versions of grooming myself, and don't worry about it, because what's important is to feel comfortable with your own body. I like being a homosexual man and identifiably so if it's a butch look, although I tend to feature my crotch more than super-muscles, which don't interest me to have nor get in bed with somebody else's. But there is a good book called 'The Adonis Complex', I forget the writer's name but is a Jungian therapist--and many surprising things in it, things like guys who get huge gym-muscles, but never think they are big enough. They will literally often think they are still 'skinny'! I couldn't believe it at first when I read it. Also, some have bulimia and other eating disorders.
     
  8. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    I think it works that way with a really big penis too. So many guys are curious about it. Other males stare, make offers, want to touch or suck your dick. Hell, suck my dick then. Wank me.

    I'm nowhere near big enough to be speaking from experience mind you.
     
  9. BiItalianBro

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    I agree with you Henry that there is an element of obvious overcompensation going on here and the knife cuts both ways. We are all aware of the stereotypical "femmie" guys so the hyper-manly men become their archtype.
    The lines of sexual identity and behavior are becoming blurrier with (1) western societies acceptance of homosexuality in mainstream culture and (2) the assertion of female ideals in business, marketing and society as a whole.

    The posts from heterosexual men talking about shaving and waxing their junk is anecdotal evidence of that. I have 100% hetero male friends who primp, shave/wax and work out religiously to keep their women happy. These influences are making the stereotype of the 35 year old married guy who is ungroomed with a beer-gut becoming more and more outdated.
     
  10. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    Playing to stereotypes - most of the women probably don't care much as long as the checking account is full and the car has gas in it. They are doing it as much to compete with their mates who are doing it. And anyway, it's better to be fit.
     
  11. BiItalianBro

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    LMAO...I am with ya on that Dx!!!
     
  12. spunkyboy2008

    spunkyboy2008 New Member

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    Well I think there are "hypermasculine" gay subcultures such as the so-called "muscle maries". Then there are the "bears" - older, very hairy guys who are usually a combination of muscly and overweight. But really I think that's a minority, the more "normal" and even camp/fem seem to be more common, at least in my experience.
     
  13. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I went to Camp Mattatuck.......who knew i could have gone to camp Fem?
     
  14. Gillette

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    Just to throw a possible hypothesis out there. I'm neither gay nor male so feel free to rip apart or dismiss as you like.

    Due to the violence homophobic people have been willing to inflict on gay men building muscle mass seems like a natural defence strategy. Fewer bullies will harass you for your orientation if they expect you'll twist them into a pretzel.

    Having an impressive build can also make them attractive to other males for various reasons including the look/feel of a well developed body and even a feeling of safety being with them for the rationalization above.
     
  15. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    Never spoken more truly Gillette. When I started getting a little more meat on me after high school, harassment drops off. Maybe it was just growing older too. Guys are less likely to try to punk each other after high school.

    Bullies are wimps. The last thing they want is to be caught out picking on someone they can't easily beat.
     
  16. epress

    epress New Member

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    I always get very annoyed by the so-called "connection" between muscularity and homosexuality, that if a guy works out, lifts weights, and takes care of his body then he is gay or less manly than a guy who doesn't. I really hate mainstream popular culture's insistence that to be a "real man" you have to have a pot belly or beer gut! It is ridiculous nonsense.

    I am a gay male who does a lot of traveling and knows gays literally all over the world. The VAST MAJORITY of gays are NOT muscular and do NOT work out or lift weights. Most gay men are not even sexually attracted to big muscle-types. It is a stereotype, and is very damaging to the self-esteem of typical, normal, average gay men.

    While at the same time, the stereotype boosts the self-image of many straight, conservative, often homophobic men by telling them that it is ok to be flabby and out of shape, because otherwise their masculinity/heterosexuality would be questionable.

    I personally know or know of many many guys who workout and lift weights a lot. They are almost all straight. Only a very small few of them are gay. It is a distorted myth that most guys with muscles are gay, and vice versa.

    I think the so-called "connection" is all just a cheeky sales gimick by the media and advertisers to appeal to the common everyday man, who does not work out, so that he will buy their product. And women buy into it as well. Just look at all the t.v. commercials, shows, and movies where the common-looking guy, who obviously doesn't lift weights or eat right, always gets the hot girl by the end! This is very true for the United States, but even more so for most other places in the world, like Britain and China. It is a contributing factor to the sharp rise in obesity among men... the unhealthy lifestyle that leads to obesity is actively encouraged by the media, especially in the U.S. and U.K.

    One more thing: for most of human history, society has always put tremendous stress on women to have beautiful physically attractive bodies and to take care of their appearance. But for the past 20 years or so, men have only just begun to be encouraged to take care of their bodies and appearance. This new trend spawned a backlash by resentful men, which says that guys who put any effort into their appearance are less manly or are gay than men who don't. It is a form of resistance by men to the pressure to be attractive that women have faced since time immemorial.

    The so-called "connection" between muscularity and homosexuality is a myth and is insulting to gay men because it puts enormous pressure on them to aspire to attain a hugely unrealistic body-image. It is insulting to straight men who exercise because it labels them as unmanly (not that gays are unmanly, but unfortunately the "connection" is meant to be an insult to heterosexuals, not a compliment of gays.) And it is insulting to women because it says that the hurtful pressure to have a "nice body" is only for women and gays, and straight males are exempt from that burden.
     
  17. hb2

    hb2 New Member

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    Interesting points, epress!
     
  18. spunkyboy2008

    spunkyboy2008 New Member

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    What's Camp Mattatuck?
     
  19. hb2

    hb2 New Member

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    Hmmm, sure makes me think.
     
  20. skttst

    skttst New Member

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    Just outta curiousity: Why does society only label muscular white men as gay or less manly?

    However, no such connection is made for non-white men? I am just pointing out an obvious observation that I and many others have noticed, and my boyfriend who is black jokes about it all the time. He said that a black man who is muscular is seen as less likely to be gay, and that the "muscles equals gay" thing is only a "white stereotype".

    I just want to know why only muscular white men are labeled as gay or unmanly in our society. What makes white men so different from others?

    But then again, my boyfriend pointed out that white men (and many women) are far more likely than men of other races to make the connection between muscles and gayness. Is it because Americans are so much more obsessed with rooting out homosexuality and homophobia than many other cultures (and maybe that obsession rubbed off somewhat on the English or vice versa)? Just wondering.
     
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