Homosexuality and hypermasculinity: the vague connection

[marleyisalegend]

I always get very annoyed by the so-called "connection" between muscularity and homosexuality, that if a guy works out, lifts weights, and takes care of his body then he is gay or less manly than a guy who doesn't. I really hate mainstream popular culture's insistence that to be a "real man" you have to have a pot belly or beer gut! It is ridiculous nonsense.

I am a gay male who does a lot of traveling and knows gays literally all over the world. The VAST MAJORITY of gays are NOT muscular and do NOT work out or lift weights. Most gay men are not even sexually attracted to big muscle-types. It is a stereotype, and is very damaging to the self-esteem of typical, normal, average gay men.

While at the same time, the stereotype boosts the self-image of many straight, conservative, often homophobic men by telling them that it is ok to be flabby and out of shape, because otherwise their masculinity/heterosexuality would be questionable.

I personally know or know of many many guys who workout and lift weights a lot. They are almost all straight. Only a very small few of them are gay. It is a distorted myth that most guys with muscles are gay, and vice versa.

I think the so-called "connection" is all just a cheeky sales gimick by the media and advertisers to appeal to the common everyday man, who does not work out, so that he will buy their product. And women buy into it as well. Just look at all the t.v. commercials, shows, and movies where the common-looking guy, who obviously doesn't lift weights or eat right, always gets the hot girl by the end! This is very true for the United States, but even more so for most other places in the world, like Britain and China. It is a contributing factor to the sharp rise in obesity among men... the unhealthy lifestyle that leads to obesity is actively encouraged by the media, especially in the U.S. and U.K.

One more thing: for most of human history, society has always put tremendous stress on women to have beautiful physically attractive bodies and to take care of their appearance. But for the past 20 years or so, men have only just begun to be encouraged to take care of their bodies and appearance. This new trend spawned a backlash by resentful men, which says that guys who put any effort into their appearance are less manly or are gay than men who don't. It is a form of resistance by men to the pressure to be attractive that women have faced since time immemorial.

The so-called "connection" between muscularity and homosexuality is a myth and is insulting to gay men because it puts enormous pressure on them to aspire to attain a hugely unrealistic body-image. It is insulting to straight men who exercise because it labels them as unmanly (not that gays are unmanly, but unfortunately the "connection" is meant to be an insult to heterosexuals, not a compliment of gays.) And it is insulting to women because it says that the hurtful pressure to have a "nice body" is only for women and gays, and straight males are exempt from that burden.

AMEN AMEN AMEN. this country has an obsessionwith fitting people into categories for instance

gay=flamboyant
black=inarticulate
skinny=anorexic

and the list can go on all day. i think the behavior of stereotyping is rooted in a couple of things

A)fear of things different or things we don't understand
B)the racism and sexism that ran this country for so many years

i think that once a person realizes that being gay has cast them into a minority, the sort of freak out, they're in a position they don't understand because, well, being a straight man (and white if it applies) can be a blessing in this country. once they're cast into this roll of minority which they don't understand, the fear factor comes in and they immediately feel the need to start attaching those labels and applying those stereotypes. this could explain why there are so many threads "why do black guys..." why do muscular men....", "do all....". it's silly to think that knowing what happens in a majority can somehow be beneficial. many stereotypes are based on fact but what use are these facts?? what good does it do you to know how many percent of gay men behave this way or that way?? what good does it do you to know that most black guys have big penises?? the only answer i can think of is that people find security when they understand things that are different from them, mostly by placing labels on them

 

[B_henry miller]

Yes, I'm interested in masculine psychology and the ambiguous connection between the various labels we give ourselves. Yes, I identify as 100% straight. Yes, I'm interested in masculine psychology and have started a lot of threads on that topic. Yes, you seem to have researched and compiled many threads I've started on this topic.

What exactly is your point?

Hmm...Speaking of overly focused:

(all from you by the way)
Are gay men often fatherless sons?


I'm very jealous (that no one comments on my cock!)

The penis and male identity

Hey, straight guys -- do you feel weird coming here too?

Question for gay men regarding str8 men

What's it like to be a jock?

It's beautiful to be a man

Question for women about str8 male gayness

Male empathy
And yet your profile says you're 100% straight: (not that there's anything wrong with that)



Biography: Tanya, where now is that warm cunt of yours?
Location: Big Sur, California Occupation: Gangster-author Gender: Male Sexual Orientation: 100% Straight, 0% Gay Languages Spoken: English, Spanish

 

[Northland]

Yes, I'm interested in masculine psychology and the ambiguous connection between the various labels we give ourselves. Yes, I identify as 100% straight. Yes, I'm interested in masculine psychology and have started a lot of threads on that topic. Yes, you seem to have researched and compiled many threads I've started on this topic.

What exactly is your point?

I was supposed to have a point?

Since you insist-I get a sense that your own sexuality is in question at least at a deeper underlying root level to yourself (this is nothing against you, society indoctrinates men to behave and see things a particular way, thus the vast number of men who go through the perils and farce of heterosexuality and marriage before emerging from the manmade closet to declare their homosexuality-or bisexuality [of course I may be wrong-it happens occasionally]). Yes, yes, you can dress it up in the mumbo jumbo of 'interested in masculine psychology'; however it still holds itself in a particular light to many of those who will view your seeming obsession on the matter. If I am wrong (do a full self-examination before responding on this ) then I extend to you my deepest, most meaningful apologies.

If you have this interest, then take yourself over to the local University or Community College, ask about courses on human sexuality and enroll. Learn from there and from the thousands of studies which you can find documented both on the Internet and at the library on the subjects. I understand your curiosity and desire to learn, I wish only the best for you on this; but, as you can well see, the answers found in a forum such as this are (at times) going to be rather tilted. Beyond that, I appreciate your ongoing quest to absorb the information which the universe holds for all of us.

 

[Fire Stick]

People have contributed some excellent thoughts to this thread, but I believe this is one an issue one can over-think. I am not saying that gay male culture is without complexities and without non-sexual aspects, but basically, the unifying and dominant element – obviously – is sexual attraction to men. Gay men are not all attracted to the same types of men, of course, but it should be no surprise to anyone that the “hyper-masculine” image – desirable male characteristics carried to the extreme – is a very strong ideal reinforced both openly and subliminally by our culture. Certainly, on this site, with so many of us having one key “hyper-masculine” characteristic in common (yep, I'm referring to our big dicks), we understand the effect that single characteristic alone typically wields, not only on most gay men directly, but also in a broad sense throughout our sex-focused culture.

 

[Jovial]

Are hyper-feminine women more likely to be lesbians?

 

[Hellboy0]

Just to throw a possible hypothesis out there. I'm neither gay nor male so feel free to rip apart or dismiss as you like.

Due to the violence homophobic people have been willing to inflict on gay men building muscle mass seems like a natural defence strategy. Fewer bullies will harass you for your orientation if they expect you'll twist them into a pretzel.

Having an impressive build can also make them attractive to other males for various reasons including the look/feel of a well developed body and even a feeling of safety being with them for the rationalization above.

Hmmm...possibly got a point there. I grew up as a pretty skinny kid and know I went through phase where I wanted to be bigger/ more muscley. As I got older, worked out, etc and the size packed on, people did seem to treat me different.

But I've learned bullies will do their thing to you despite your size. It's all about attitude. So I've fixed that and voila... I felt better, more masculine and the bullies don't seem to be anywhere in sight.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Are hyper-feminine women more likely to be lesbians?

I don't think so, Jovial.

About the topic: I think most guys already have enough masculine stuff in us so we're more interested in how to access the feminine. Like most guys i find women really interesting and somewhat mysterious as well as attractive. I don't necessarily find most guys as attractive generally. However there are guys who I'm drawn to for other reasons, and that's usually because they're NOT hyper-masculine but rather are more comfortable with themselves. I guess the ultimate ideal would be that each person would be able to find our balanced masculine/feminine qualities within ourselves but things don't seem to work that way. Men and women seem to need each other to fulfill something in each of us.

 

[B_henry miller]

What surprises me is that this isn't even the question at hand. I didn't ask for help with the labeling of my sexual orientation. I asked if people have any insight into the phenomenon of hypermasculine straight men being similar to the muscle fetishism that goes on in the gay community.

I was supposed to have a point?

Since you insist-I get a sense that your own sexuality is in question at least at a deeper underlying root level to yourself (this is nothing against you, society indoctrinates men to behave and see things a particular way, thus the vast number of men who go through the perils and farce of heterosexuality and marriage before emerging from the manmade closet to declare their homosexuality-or bisexuality [of course I may be wrong-it happens occasionally]). Yes, yes, you can dress it up in the mumbo jumbo of 'interested in masculine psychology'; however it still holds itself in a particular light to many of those who will view your seeming obsession on the matter. If I am wrong (do a full self-examination before responding on this ) then I extend to you my deepest, most meaningful apologies.

If you have this interest, then take yourself over to the local University or Community College, ask about courses on human sexuality and enroll. Learn from there and from the thousands of studies which you can find documented both on the Internet and at the library on the subjects. I understand your curiosity and desire to learn, I wish only the best for you on this; but, as you can well see, the answers found in a forum such as this are (at times) going to be rather tilted. Beyond that, I appreciate your ongoing quest to absorb the information which the universe holds for all of us.