homosexuality and promiscuity

dolfette

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Posts
11,303
Media
0
Likes
109
Points
193
Sexuality
No Response
i'm curious here...

at any point does the bible spell out that it's wrong?
it says very clearly that theft, murder, adultery etc are sins.

the only think i could find was a description of a bad place where men lay with men...but that's pretty vague. i couldn't find the bit where it says it's a sin. i'm genuinely curious.

adultery is in the ten commandments. that's how bad it's meant to be. right up in the top ten!
if that sex act gets a mention in the big ten, but gay sex doesn't, that says to me that god's not as freaked as you all make out.
 

hypolimnas

Superior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Posts
2,035
Media
0
Likes
3,043
Points
343
Location
Penisland
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
The idea that the Catholic Church is any authority on human sexuality (apart from historical cases of pedophilia and its legal consequences) is utterly insane.

Not only has it made itself irrelevant to the spiritual and emotional needs of the people, in my view its conservative views are dangerous and cause a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Catholic priests are not competant to provide leadership in any area of human sexuality. Furthermore its propaganda is immoral and harmful.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
97
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
if that sex act gets a mention in the big ten, but gay sex doesn't, that says to me that god's not as freaked as you all make out.
Catholic priests are not competant to provide leadership in any area of human sexuality. Furthermore its propaganda is immoral and harmful.
I'm not sure if either of you checked the link I posted just above (about pocket change)... if not, please be sure you do. It isn't very long, but it's QUITE informative.
 

SpoiledPrincess

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Posts
7,868
Media
0
Likes
121
Points
193
Location
england
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Here you go Dolfette:-

Leviticus 18:22 thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is an abomination
Leviticus 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people
Leviticus 21:If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death

The Bible also gives us the following guidance

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death
Leviticus 20:10 And the man that commiteth adultery with another mans wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbours wife the adulterer and the adultress shall be put to death
Leviticus 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman during her sickness and shall uncover her nakedness he hath discovered her fountain and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood and both of them shall be cut off among their people
Leviticus 20:27 a man also or a woman that hath a familiar spirit, or is a wizard shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stone; their blood shall be upon them

Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband and a man find her in the city and lie with her
Deuteronomy 22:24 then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city and ye shall stone them with stones that they die because she cried not being in the city

Isn't it about time people stopped using the Bible as a justification for their hatred, it's a book written for a time that was totally different and you can't just pick and choose which bits you want to use, if you're going to hate on gay guys you should be just as hard on some kid who cusses out his parents, on adulterers, on wiccans on innocent women who got raped at knifepoint and didn't scream for help. If people are going to use the Bible for moral guidance why does it always seem to be the parts justifying their unwarranted bias instead of the bit where Jesus says 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone.'
 

dolfette

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Posts
11,303
Media
0
Likes
109
Points
193
Sexuality
No Response
woah...

gay sex is as bad as sex on the rag!

but...why have i never seen "god hates period sex" t-shirts?

so we're picking & choosing which bits in the same book are real & shit.

i'm so happy i asked!
 

SpoiledPrincess

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Posts
7,868
Media
0
Likes
121
Points
193
Location
england
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Not that part DC, there's a whole section about what priests can and can't do or be like they can't be crosseyed for instance and they can't marry a divorced woman, but those parts were general prohibitions.
 

grandunification

Legendary Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Posts
968
Media
13
Likes
1,918
Points
423
Location
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Ok, I don't think that I have ever expressed myself properly. I don't think it's wrong if two guys want to love each other. What I fear is that their lifestyle dramatically increases their chances to contract dangerous diseases. For example, anal sex causes cancer, it just does. Please don't try to deny this unless you want to argue with the entire medical world. If gay men never tried anal sex then that would be one less thing I worry about in their style. Honestly, how many of you gay men can say you've never tried anal sex? And yes, I think anal sex is just as dangerous for straight women too. However, they have another option for intercourse.
It is also shown that for whatever reason, gay men do meth at high rates, every unbiased study ever done shows it. You give me an article from an unbiased source that claims otherwise and I'll consider changing my view on that. Here's another link I found linking anal sex to HPV GAY.COM UK & Ireland - News - Headlines - US: 1 in 3 Gay Men Have Incurable STD

If medical technology is so amazing someday that they can reverse the effects of meth and every std including HIV then I say live as gay as you want.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
97
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Ok, I don't think that I have ever expressed myself properly. I don't think it's wrong if two guys want to love each other. What I fear is that their lifestyle dramatically increases their chances to contract dangerous diseases. For example, anal sex causes cancer, it just does. Please don't try to deny this unless you want to argue with the entire medical world. If gay men never tried anal sex then that would be one less thing I worry about in their style. Honestly, how many of you gay men can say you've never tried anal sex? And yes, I think anal sex is just as dangerous for straight women too. However, they have another option for intercourse.
It is also shown that for whatever reason, gay men do meth at high rates, every unbiased study ever done shows it. You give me an article from an unbiased source that claims otherwise and I'll consider changing my view on that. Here's another link I found linking anal sex to HPV GAY.COM UK & Ireland - News - Headlines - US: 1 in 3 Gay Men Have Incurable STD

If medical technology is so amazing someday that they can reverse the effects of meth and every std including HIV then I say live as gay as you want.
I understand your concerns, but it seems to me to be misguided altruism. First, being gay is not a lifestyle. You have bought into the propaganda. Here's an example of my lifestyle (and that of most of my gay friends): we (my partner of 6 years and myself) get up at 5:30 in the morning, shower, have breakfast and skim the newspaper. Leave for work at 6:15. Work all day. Come home, have dinner, talk about whether or not to cut down the holly tree in the front yard and plant something else in that spot... maybe watch a little TV. Go to bed. Get up the next morning and do it all again.

Second, point me in the direction of a medical study that proves anal sex with a condom causes cancer. Or that non-STD anal sex causes cancer. If you are talking about HPV, you need to be better informed. Here's the link to the Centers for Disease Control. They most likely have the most complete and unbiased factual and statistical information. Disregard any of the information or links you got from FRC. It's all horribly biased.

Third, addictive behaviors (as mentioned before) have more to do with societal/familial issues than with gender attractions. If you work harder to reduce the "stigma of being gay," that would reduce substance abuse triggers more than whatever else you might propose. Any marginalized group has a higher incidence of substance abuse and dysfunctional behaviors. It has been true for ethnic minorities just as it is for sexual minorities. If well-meaning christians didn't constantly tell us what's wrong with us, we just possibly might have less reason to seek out alternate realities.

Again, I'm not castigating you. I'm just saying that it's your type of thinking that makes the higher incidence of meth abuse among gay men a reality. When you repress someone, they are exceptionally likely to compensate in other areas.
 

LouisVauban

Sexy Member
Joined
May 7, 2007
Posts
447
Media
6
Likes
26
Points
163
Location
Montreal, QC
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Leviticus 18:22 thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is an abomination
Leviticus 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people
Leviticus 21:If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death

A friend of mine who went through the whole Jesuit training process told me that it is very well-known within the church that this passage is NOT a condemnation of homosexuality, rather:

At the time of the writing, it was a common practice within war that whomever was the victorious army would quite literally FUCK the losing side to prove domination... the army would 'take' the other army.

The church found this an abominable practice and wanted it stopped... hence, the passage.

My friend went on to tell me that the Church continues to quietly use this passage as anti-homosexual... although they know there is no relevence.
 

grandunification

Legendary Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Posts
968
Media
13
Likes
1,918
Points
423
Location
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Again, I'm not castigating you. I'm just saying that it's your type of thinking that makes the higher incidence of meth abuse among gay men a reality. When you repress someone, they are exceptionally likely to compensate in other areas.[/quote]

America has definitely become more accepting of gays in the last twenty years. We have gay pride parades and I see organizations at my school for accepting gays. More and more gays have come out of the closet in recent years because they feel less repressed than they used to.

You claim repression=compensation in other areas.
Then I claim less repression should= less compensation in other areas, but that's not what's been happening.

And by the way, I'm proud you have found a way to live well.
 

dolfette

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Posts
11,303
Media
0
Likes
109
Points
193
Sexuality
No Response
grand, hetro sex causes cancer. my mother had cervical cancer, caused by hpv that she caught from her HUSBAND!

not to mention that many women enjoy anal sex too.
 

rstrnt

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Posts
61
Media
4
Likes
0
Points
151
Location
Chicago
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Another theory on the male/male sex was they needed more children (males) to help in Gods war. They needed soldiers. Wasting the seed, was forbidden, when it could produce another killing machine.
 

rstrnt

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Posts
61
Media
4
Likes
0
Points
151
Location
Chicago
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
I could go on for hours on the bible. My partners Father is a retired minister, and obviously we don't see eye to eye an many things. I have done extensive research on th bible vs. homosexuals. It would take days to explain it all.
 

rstrnt

Just Browsing
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Posts
61
Media
4
Likes
0
Points
151
Location
Chicago
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Homosexuality did not make God's top ten list ... it is mentioned like 7 times in the whole bible, whereas, heterosesxual stuff is mentioned something like 1100 times. I don't really think it is the gay people he is worried about.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
97
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
America has definitely become more accepting of gays in the last twenty years. We have gay pride parades and I see organizations at my school for accepting gays. More and more gays have come out of the closet in recent years because they feel less repressed than they used to.

You claim repression=compensation in other areas.
Then I claim less repression should= less compensation in other areas, but that's not what's been happening.

And by the way, I'm proud you have found a way to live well.
Having the threat of being murdered is a step in the right direction, but I certainly wouldn't call it "less repression." You have probably been told that we have all the legal protections of everyone else, but that is just not true.

"For a number of years researchers have known that one-third of all teenagers who commit suicide are gay. In one sense, this statistic is incredibly shocking because, according to the Kinsey Report, gay teens only comprise one-tenth of the teen population. This means that they are 300 percent more likely to kill themselves than heterosexual youth. In another sense, it is predictable that gay teens kill themselves more often than other young people simply because their life chances are so limited by social and legal discrimination. Only when this discrimination is eliminated will these shocking statistics change.

Examples of discrimination are ubiquitous. In 42 states, gays have no legal protection from employment or housing discrimination. Worse, laws put on the books during colonial times still criminalize homosexual acts in 25 states. These laws were upheld in 1986 by the Supreme Court in the Bowers v. Hardwick case. (reversed by Lawrence v. Texas).
Thus young gay individuals realize that they must hide their identity for fear of social and legal consequences which can destroy their lives. Homosexuals can be fired, evicted, kept from their own biological children, restricted from adopting children, and imprisoned for sodomy. The homosexuality of historical figures has been systematically left out of education in the public schools, giving gay youth the false impression that gays have never affected history in a positive way.
Also, on a purely social level, many gay teens run the risk of losing their friends or being thrown out of their homes if they either come out or are inadvertently outed. Admittedly, there is a direct relation between the social perception of gays and the rights accorded to gays. Many Christians and Jews [and muslims] believe that God considers homosexual acts sinful. Others believe homosexuality goes against nature. These beliefs continue to fuel legal discrimination against gays. Many just don't realize that these legal loopholes leave gays completely vulnerable to homophobes. But laws should not be based on public prejudice. Our country has a long history of discriminating legally against groups that were stigmatized socially; the Chinese, the Irish, and Blacks are examples. Both the social front and the legal front must be addressed. It is more important to have the legal protections in place first. To compare this to African-American history, one reason that de facto segregation could be fought was that de jure segregation was found illegal in 1954. The legal protections enable the social discourse to continue peacefully.
(from a Harvard.edu publication)

If you read it correctly, 42 states (that's 84%) legalize discrimination and persecution based solely upon sexual orientation. That's kind of a shitty track record. The article does not mention that the federal government not only provides no anti-discrimination for gays and lesbians; it specifically has legislation aimed at withholding legal and fiscal protections for homosexuals. If you don't understand how that makes us feel marginalized, I'm not sure you will understand the rest of this... and thanks for being proud of my success in life...
I'll be honest, I know someone who is a lesbian and suicidal. All of her friends are lesbians and do drugs/alcohol on a massive scale. This girl is important to me so I decided to do research to find out what was going on, and it turns out that all the data, from religious groups or not, say that gays are more likely to do drugs and have huge numbers of partners. I'm not claiming to understand why this is true, but appearantly it is. When I say that I support gays fully, I mean that if they are being self destructive, and they probably are, then I want to help them any way that I can.
Some are self-destructive, true enough. But it's because of the daunting idea of having to go through life as a persecuted second-class citizen. And those suicidal tendencies are more in the teen-age gay population, not the gay population at large.
I'm Catholic and believe in their ideas about homosexuality. That being said, I agree with a lot of what the FRC has to say. So no, I'm not going to challenge a group that's on my side.
I'm not mad at you, but you asked for comments and information, then you tell us you aren't too willing to see information that contradicts what your church has already taught you. It must be a difficult dichotomy, being catholic and believing their ideas about homosexuality, and at the same time, wanting to love and help homosexuals. First, though, you have to be able to seperate out fact from propaganda.

Time for a little quid pro quo. I read and commented on the two links you provided. Now, please read and comment on the three links I provided.
 

kalipygian

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Posts
1,948
Media
31
Likes
139
Points
193
Age
68
Location
alaska
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
The rule that the ancient jews made up for themselves are of as much academic interest as any other historic culture, no more or less.
The hebrew word that has been translated as abomination is the same as the one that prohibits, for example, eating shrimp, it could as well be translated
as ritually impure.
Modern Catholicism has more been formed by the writings of Augustine (whose most important relationship was with another man) and Aquinas, than ancient judaism, whose tradition was retroactively adopted, but not followed.
The practice of using the OT to bludgeon people is a development of the protestant reformation.

Lesbians are among the lowest groups in likelyhood of AIDS tramissions.

Gay people are the only group to have had here in Alaska a constitutional amendment passed specifically to deny them equal rights. This has recently been done in several other states as well.
 

hypolimnas

Superior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Posts
2,035
Media
0
Likes
3,043
Points
343
Location
Penisland
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Time for a little quid pro quo. I read and commented on the two links you provided. Now, please read and comment on the three links I provided.


Hey DC, I did read the link that you suggested. Here is my comment:

Igorance, evil and hypocrisy must always be condenmed.

I was very moved yesterday when I saw a woman talking on television saying: "this was the church that I loved", and it has treated me so badly.

The responsibility of the Church to love and care for the vulnerable, in a spiritual and physical sense, following the teachings of Christ (who brought peace of mind to those who were rejected and judged by the powerful) is something that it apears many Christians need to be reminded of regularly.
 

Matthew

Legendary Member
Gold
Platinum Gold
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Posts
7,296
Media
0
Likes
1,625
Points
583
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
For example, anal sex causes cancer, it just does. Please don't try to deny this unless you want to argue with the entire medical world.
This statement is as out of touch with reality as saying the earth is flat. Any doctor can tell you that anal sex does not cause cancer. Obviously, anal AND vaginal sex without protection can transmit a variety of diseases.

You claim repression=compensation in other areas.
Then I claim less repression should= less compensation in other areas, but that's not what's been happening.
Actaully, in the late 80s and early 90s, there was a dramatic drop in the incidence of HIV transmission among gay men in the U.S. This was largely due to gay community education and action, both in the nationwide fight against AIDS and also in the promotion of safe sex inside our community.

That incidence has increased once again because younger gay men believe that the epidemic is over and that their young partners couldn't be HIV+, and so they fail to play safely. So despite yourself, GU, you actually have a point: it's not just the easing of outside repression that leads to more positive self-image and its resultant behaviors, it's how our community organizes itself to fight back and educate younger gay folks.

Lesbians are among the lowest groups in likelyhood of AIDS tramissions.

Good point - that fact is so inconvenient for the gaybashers who SO wish that being queer were the cause of AIDS. Instead, their analysis is objectively exposed for the fraud it is.