Homosexuality and Testosterone

[JoeBfstplk]

Crazy question! If you add testosterone to what a gay guy already has, you'll just get a hornier gay guy - and whether is top or bottom doesn't even enter into that equation.

 

[D_Hyacinth Harrytwat]

I think it's certainly worth the effort. Proving that it's biological would end a lot of religious debate and accusations of it being a "lifestyle" choice. I didn't choose to be gay(not that I'm saying it'd be a bad choice to make even if it was only a choice), I simply always was... and looking back throughout my life it's abundantly evident in my psycho-sexual development.

It's only biological 99% of the time; there are a few men out there who have chosen to identify themselves as gay because of some really rough experiences with women. Or maybe they are biologically gay as well but it took something harsh for them to realize it? At any rate I almost forgot that there are still people out there who believe that it's 100% a choice and that guys do it to scare others with their "queerness" so I'm glad you brought that up.

At the same time, if they ever fully figured out the reasons behind homosexuality, the possible repercussions of that are incredibly terrifying. The idea of scientists, doctors, and anyone else for that matter deciding to turn off a gay gene in-utero or even before conception is just plain scary. Especially if it was such a wide practice so as to essentially eliminate all homosexuality in subsequent generations... which would essentially equate to mass genocide, minus the violence. However that could make for a very good fictional sci-fi thriller.

::gets out paper and pen::

This is also what I fear will happen. They've figured out the hypothalamus thing, and now they're trying to find a "gay gene". A gay-less world is exactly what they're headed for. Why else would they be trying so hard to link it to something they know they can change, like DNA? I just can't get over how many programs of this kind exist and have the funding to carry on!

 

[whatireallywant]

There are studies that were done on this subject maybe 40 years ago because it was a "nagging" question. In the study a number of gay males were given injectable testosterone. Not one of them changed orientation or behavior in ANY manner when this was done. Some had increased libido, some grew body hair, none became "straight by injection". Among this test group were of course effeminite men. None of them became more masculine in mannerism because of the injections they were receiving. This is an old "war horse" that simply refuses to die and is based on ideas and theories dating back to the 1930's

True that! I don't think hormone levels have anything to do with sexual orientation (or with behavior/interests outside of sex, either... I'm a "Biology is not destiny" person - but that does NOT mean that I believe being gay is a choice. I don't think that...)

I have been told, (purely guessing on the part of the guys who told me since they weren't doctors who gave me a hormone test!), that I probably have a high testosterone level for a woman. I will not accept the reasoning because of my behavior/interests (Biology is not destiny and all that), but they also say it because I have a very high sex drive. That one I'm wondering about... They've said a couple of other reasons too, about how I'm built (not sure that's the case either - I'm basically built like a lot of the women in my family are, and most of them have low sex drives and are very traditionalist - to the point of being against tomboys like me as going "against God" and all... ugh. The exception, as I mention later, was my mom, who was cool with my interests although she wanted me to be more like the other girls once I got to school because she wanted me to fit in and not be an outcast. I coudn't sit still that long, though! I got too fidgety and bored!)

1) Yes. Even Oscar Wilde, who was tall and had a large frame, forced himself into that behavior because he thought it was the thing to do. It's less and less common as time goes on.

2) The gay guys you see that are effeminate, you know are gay. The gay guys you see that AREN'T effeminate -- police officers, fireman, construction workers, marines, truck drivers, etc. you don't realize are gay. So your sample is biased in that you are more likely to notice a man is gay if he is effeminate. If he is very masculine, you never question if he is gay. (Not just you, but society in general including, yes, many gays).

True. There are a lot of gay guys out there who you may not think are gay.

Not all effeminate guys are gay!

True! And I'm the flip side of that - a straight woman with traditionally male non-sexual interests!

I'm not a behavioral psychologist, so I don't really know how to answer that.

I was a sissy as a boy who grew into an outwardly masculine male in adolescence. I wasn't conforming to any stereotypes as a child, I was just being myself. I did revert to much more stereotypically butch mannerisms after puberty in order to try and fit in better (not that it helped that much: I was never a popular kid in school).

Effeminate boys go through life as outcasts and are seen as undesirable. I can't imagine why anyone would actively choose to behave that way, least of all a child. If there was any choice at all in how I behaved, it was trying to avoid punishment by my parents and to be more socially acceptable to my peers, and that's when I butched it up.

I'm the flip side of this too. I was a tomboy as a child and was an outcast not only with the other kids, but even with some of my teachers and was sent to a camp for "problem children" one year and one of the things on my record was that I didn't have "appropriate sex-typed behavior". I didn't become more traditionally feminine as a teenager though - I just became extremely, extremely shy. And the shyness is something I struggle with to this day. Oddly enough though, I did develop ONE traditionally female interest (in fashion and beauty) later in life, like in my forties! (I sort of liked clothes as a teenager and beyond but wasn't as interested in fashion and all, and rarely wore makup until recently, and as a kid I had no interest in clothes except for functionality - if they were comfortable and could withstand my rough-and-tumble play!)

However, I don't believe that biology is destiny (with that exception of sexual orientation). I believe that the interests that a person has comes from many different sources. I believe that I was a tomboy in most part because my parents didn't push traditionally female things on me as a preschooler, but let me do what truly interested me. It was only when I went to school that I found out that everything I liked was considered "boy stuff".

This is very true. I guess it also makes it more obvious that a man is gay if he puts on the effeminate charades. Where I live, there's lots of that going on because people are very proud of their community.



To me, all little boys are effeminate! How can a boy not look effeminate with such a soft face and a high-pitched voice?



I've also heard about this! Learned about it in biology class, that the hypothalamus is indeed different in gay males, but that it isn't always the reason. To be frank I don't think it's worth the effort of so many brilliant minds to try to understand something that's so complex and that is perfectly fine. It's not like it's a cancer and there needs to be a cure!

True. And I do think maybe that this is true. While I think the hypothalamus may be (I don't know enough about it to say for sure, but I will accept it) different in gay men and lesbians than in straight men and women, I also don't think the hypothalamus affects behavior OTHER than sexual orientation.

good point, but i would say that even non effeminate gay adolescents feel like an outcast and "dont belong". So when these guys move into the gay enclaves, where they see many others having effeminate mannerisms, of course a good proportion will try to emulate - who doesnt want to belong after all.

When they do express themselves like this, is it a bad thing? Of course not. In most cases, it is not who these guys being wtruly are, but hey, at least they are in a position, where they can start some personal growth, finally learning to love who they are?

I detest this focus on fem and masculinity becuase underlying the discussion is pure discrimination.

True... I'm cool with people being who they are, as long as they don't push for ME to change who I am. I haven't encountered this with gays/lesbians (despite what the fundies would have you believe about gays "recruiting" ). Where I HAVE encountered this is with people who are advocates of returning to strict traditional sex roles, who basically made my life miserable growing up because I was a tomboy (who happened to be straight), and who advocate discrimination against women (as well as advocating discrimination against gays, and often advocating discrimination against racial/ethnic minorities, too).

 

[Bbucko]

To me, all little boys are effeminate! How can a boy not look effeminate with such a soft face and a high-pitched voice?

Trust me: there are sissies and there are naturally butch little boys, who tend on the tough-and-athletic side. I'm sure most of it is home conditioning, but I have no idea to what extent.

I know that no amount of parental pressure and disapproval would have made me any more athletic than I was. They tried really hard to mold me into a little quarterback; it just didn't happen.

 

[gaymixedblackguy]

I think it may affect the way guy acts. I think a lot of gay guys have normal levels, not unless you act like a girl.

 

[MuscledHorse]

It's complete BS. I'm a masculine gay gym rat and a muscle bottom. I have cycled steroids (e.g. testosterone) before as part of my growth work. When I had those very high levels of test in me it didn't make me any hornier for females. But for guys, I could hadsex all day with them...and did a number of times. More testosterone does not make you more heterosexual.

 

[pitloverfl]

I don't know what the cause of homosexuality is, but I suspect it's multifaceted or at least more complicated than we try to make it out to be. I can say this: I present as fairly masculine and test extremely highly on so called "masculine" measures of intelligence that have been linked to high in utero testosterone levels such as spacial reasoning. That's far from dispositive, though, being an anecdotal report and given our incomplete understanding of the influence of hormone levels on embryonic stages of development. I have tested low on testosterone due to drug interactions and have taken testosterone replacement therapy, and variations in my hormone levels as an adult have had no effect on my libido or orientation.

 

[lokiau]

I have seen studies saying that gays actually have higher testostrone while growing up.

 

[B_henry miller]

That's what I was going to say. This article says that bisexuality in men is caused by hyper-masculinity in men.
Bisexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, other studies have found the complete opposite.

I don't think there is any definitive answer that fits all people. I think it's a case-by-case basis.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

What is truly amazing is that when homosexual males are given testosterone injections, they suddenly become straight!

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

The implicit message is that homosexuality is less masculine than heterosexuality: bullshit.

Amen to that one.

What is truly amazing is that when homosexual males are given testosterone injections, they suddenly become straight!

Suddenly? I would be interested to see the medical documentation for this.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

I have a book called The Brain: An Owners Manual that talks explicitely about high testosterone levels in gay men.

 

[dazzla]

testosterone is about being a man, not who you are attracted to! sexuality stems from the brain. not your balls!!