Homosexuality And The Stereotypes [discussion]

[tms88]

I want to start a (polite) discussion based on this reply I posted in the Shawn Mendes thread about the toxic thing of using stereotypes to put labels on people.

Why does homosexuality to most people seem to be about so much more than it really is?

What is homosexuality?
The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex.​

That's it, that is the only thing that it should be about.

Yet, when you look at society, there is this whole lifestyle thing created around it.
There are all these stereotypes that we as the gay community have created ourselves and are actively using to distinguish ourselves from 'the rest'.

This goes from the way we talk, to body-language, to what music we like, to fashion style and so forth... There is al whole range of things nowadays that are labelled 'gay', and we all rely on it, which is absurd.

A guy wearing pink he must be gay
A guy painting his nails he must be gay
A girl having short hair she must be gay
Etc. Etc. etc. You all know the stereoypes.

Als then about music... Why is it popular for every gay to like music by Britney Spears, Lady Gaga and Beyoncé?

Why are we doing this to ourselves? Why are we creating all these boxes and put everybody including ourselves inside those boxes in order to fit in? We are limiting ourself so much for no reason. Why can't we just be ourselves. Isn't that what we all want in the end?

Why are we going to such lengths to create this 'gay community' and then try so hard to fit in without those boxes?

How many gay people don't feel welcome in the gay community, because of these stereotypes?
I am one of those people. I am not a stereotypical gay, yet I am proud to be gay. However, I would feel completely out of place at a Pride event. Ironic, right?

Isn't Pride supposed to be about being proud of who we are?
Then why is every every pride event such a massive cliche, full of all these stereotypes, all over the world. It ticks all the boxes of what is labelled gay.

Why is it always barely dressed men dryhumping eachother to loud female pop-music, trying so hard to shock and to rebel. That really isn't helping the cause. I think it is part of a very big problem in this gay community. It is trying so hard to be different.

Why don't let all these stereotypes and this whole clownery go and let homosexuality just be what it is really all about. Not about how different 'we' are, but focus on how we are actually the exact same.
Not about the way we dress, the way we talk or what music we should like. All these toxic boxes we put people in.

Simply about loving the same gender.
Nothing more, nothing less.

That's the best thing we can for acceptance and respect from other communities and would also really improve the confidence and self-love of ourselves.

 

[Industrialsize]

So, what should we be allowed to do at a Pride Parade? What should we be allowed to wear? What music should we allow to be played? Is there a certain way we are allowed to "talk"? Are there words and phrases we shouldn't say? Can we hold hands? Can we kiss in public or is that too much? I didn't realize that I lacked self-love. How do I get it? You state that we shouldn't be "different." What should we do to be "the same"? Please tell us.

 

[tms88]

So, what should we be allowed to do at a Pride Parade? What should we be allowed to wear? What music should we allow to be played? Is there a certain way we are allowed to "talk"? Are there words and phrases we shouldn't say? Can we hold hands? Can we kiss in public or is that too much? I didn't realize that I lacked self-love. How do I get it? You state that we shouldn't be "different." What should we do to be "the same"? Please tell us.

No reason to be so sarcastic, I think you are missing the point I tried to make.
Ofcourse you can hold hands, kiss and wear whatever you want and talk however you want.
I never said you can't.

The thing is that people like Shawn Mendes for example, are being labelled gay because they fit certain stereotypes.
It makes me wonder why we do that. Why this exist and why we link certain styles/interests to sexuality while it has nothing to do with it. People should be able to wear whatever they want without being labelled for it. It's got nothing to do with sexuality.

There's this saying "Don't confuse the truth with the opinion of the majority" that somewhat applies to it. Just because a lot if people in the gay community do something, doesn't mean everybody who does it, is gay and also doesn't mean that everybody who doesn't do that, is straight. These stereotypes are so toxic and can cause so much shame and anxiety.

It creates so much... stigma around things that are completely unrelated to what sexual preference someone has.
I simply don't understand why we can't see these things as two seperate things,

 

[windibundu]

In my secret heart-of-hearts I have always rolled my eyes at what could be seen as the hypersexuality, posturing and ultimately, FLAMBOYANCE of the so-called, "gay scene". I am a shy and private person and I would hope strangers meeting me for the first time would remember me more by my work, and my personality rather than any preconceptions they may have based on what they think goes on at a pride parade.

But here's the bottom line. Gays don't need to ask for my (or anyone else's) permission or input when they are being just who they are - Every human is cursed or blessed with the right/privilege/duty to find their authentic selves, and no one else can or should try to tell them exactly who or what that is. That's kind of the whole point.

 

[OKCLane]

No reason to be so sarcastic, I think you are missing the point I tried to make.
Ofcourse you can hold hands, kiss and wear whatever you want and talk however you want.
I never said you can't.

The thing is that people like Shawn Mendes for example, are being labelled gay because they fit certain stereotypes.
It makes me wonder why we do that. Why this exist and why we link certain styles/interests to sexuality while it has nothing to do with it. People should be able to wear whatever they want without being labelled for it. It's got nothing to do with sexuality.

There's this saying "Don't confuse the truth with the opinion of the majority" that somewhat applies to it. Just because a lot if people in the gay community do something, doesn't mean everybody who does it, is gay and also doesn't mean that everybody who doesn't do that, is straight. These stereotypes are so toxic and can cause so much shame and anxiety.

It creates so much... stigma around things that are completely unrelated to what sexual preference someone has.
I simply don't understand why we can't see these things as two seperate things,

It took one reply for us to see why any discussion is nearly impossible.

 

[tms88]

It took one reply for us to see why any discussion is nearly impossible.

The whole concept of a discussion is having people with different opinions and insights sharing how they think of something. There's no right or wrong here.

It's not impossible to simply share your thoughts on something. Just share.

 

[OKCLane]

The whole concept of a discussion is having people with different opinions and insights sharing how they think of something. There's no right or wrong here.

It’s the reason I stay away from the political section and typically away from these topics. They devolve into snarky name calling and are not productive.
I agree with you and wish you great success.

 

[Brodie888]

I think what you need to consider is the history of homosexuality and gay rights. There was a time when homosexuality was illegal. In some countries it still is. To be suspected of being gay was an invitation to be assaulted or even killed.

So gay pride events are still somewhat a symbol of protest against the past as well as a celebration of being able to be as loud and flamboyant as we like without feeling shame or fear.

Gay acceptance is still going through a transition phase. A lot of people still hide their homosexuality for fear or career.

I can see how it's frustrating for some people that celebrities hide their sexuality until their career is over when they could have used their platform to further gay acceptance. But I also understand that being a gay advocate shouldn't be forced upon someone simply because they are gay.

 

[tms88]

It’s the reason I stay away from the political section and typically away from these topics. They devolve into snarky name calling and are not productive.
I agree with you and wish you great success.

I hope and intent this thread to be a mature and polite discussion where opinions are welcome.

Reason for starting it was mainly the way that Shawn is pushed into this gay persona simply for his mannerisms, voice and style and it made me realize how absurd that actually us.

I kinda reflected that on myself and I realised that for me it's the same, but the other way around. I'm gay but don't fit the stereotypes. I prefer beer over wine, dress casual, do all the 'typical straight men' stuff. I'm simply not extravagant in any way, I'm rather shy.

This made me if that mDe me any less gay? The obvious answer is no, ofcourse not. However in a setting like Pride I would feel out of place and unwelcome. While that should be a place where I should feel completely myself.

It's just that whole lifestyle thing that really causes a lot of (inner) conflict. For gay people who don't feel validated. For closets people who are afraid to be outed if they 'tick too many Boxes' which causes massive social anxiety. And ofcourse for straight people, especially in the public eye.

And to me it all seems so unnecessary. It doesn't serve any purpose or validation. You just like who you like.

 

[Mushrhoom]

Why does homosexuality to most people seem to be about so much more than it really is?

What is homosexuality?
The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex.​

That's it, that is the only thing that it should be about.

Yet, when you look at society, there is this whole lifestyle thing created around it.
There are all these stereotypes that we as the gay community have created ourselves and are actively using to distinguish ourselves from 'the rest'.

This goes from the way we talk, to body-language, to what music we like, to fashion style and so forth... There is al whole range of things nowadays that are labelled 'gay', and we all rely on it, which is absurd.

A guy wearing pink he must be gay
A guy painting his nails he must be gay
A girl having short hair she must be gay
Etc. Etc. etc. You all know the stereoypes.

Als then about music... Why is it popular for every gay to like music by Britney Spears, Lady Gaga and Beyoncé?

Why are we doing this to ourselves? Why are we creating all these boxes and put everybody including ourselves inside those boxes in order to fit in? We are limiting ourself so much for no reason. Why can't we just be ourselves. Isn't that what we all want in the end?

Why are we going to such lengths to create this 'gay community' and then try so hard to fit in without those boxes?

How many gay people don't feel welcome in the gay community, because of these stereotypes?
I am one of those people. I am not a stereotypical gay, yet I am proud to be gay. However, I would feel completely out of place at a Pride event. Ironic, right?

Isn't Pride supposed to be about being proud of who we are?
Then why is every every pride event such a massive cliche, full of all these stereotypes, all over the world. It ticks all the boxes of what is labelled gay.

Why is it always barely dressed men dry humping each other to loud female pop-music, trying so hard to shock and to rebel. That really isn't helping the cause. I think it is part of a very big problem in this gay community. It is trying so hard to be different.

Why don't let all these stereotypes and this whole clownery go and let homosexuality just be what it is really all about. Not about how different 'we' are, but focus on how we are actually the exact same.
Not about the way we dress, the way we talk or what music we should like. All these toxic boxes we put people in.

Simply about loving the same gender.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks to tms88. This really says it all. I just want to add that prior to my own coming out, over 40 years ago, it was the stereotypes laid out above that primarily kept me in the closet. I didn't have any problem admitting to myself that I was attracted to men, I had a supportive family who I was confident would be supportive, but I simply wasn't "like them". I felt I was an anomaly who simply liked men, but wasn't into all the demonstrative flamery. So I stayed in the closet longer than I should have.

I've always thought that Gay Pride parades are vulgar and counterproductive. To make an analogy, how would a a Women's Pride parade go down if it featured topless women flaunting their bodies. Sure it would get a lot of attention, but it certainly doesn't send the right message to the general public.


Our sexuality is only a part of who we are; and if we allow it to become the dominant centerpiece of our lives, something is out of balance.

 

[Brodie888]

In shows like Call Me By Your Name, Love Simon, Ozark, Game of Thrones etc. there seems to be more representation of gay men without the stereotypical flamboyance.

So hopefully that will lead to people being aware that there is more to being gay than what they've known.

 

[Industrialsize]

I'm in my 60's we fought FOR the right to be as flamboyant as we want in public. Who started the modern gay rights movement? Drag queens....... the OP talks about being offended for being mistaken as straight. Some of us go through life and it is obvious that we are gay. I've been obviously gay since childhood. You could probably tell I'm gay from space. Would you prefer that I hide so that you're more comfortable with your heteronormative appearance?

 

[headbang8]

I'm like you, @tms88. I'm not flamboyant. I drink beer. I dress like a slob. I can be found on couch, mostly. I have been an automotive professional for much of my working life. I have been known to change my own oil, and I built a lot of my own house. You wouldn't pick me on the street from my behaviour.

Unless I choose to kiss my husband in public, just like a straight guy would kiss his wife. Unless I put a rainbow sticker on my car, or wore a red ribbon badge in memory of the friends I lost. Or was out with a group of gay friends, who were so immoderate as to wear the dreaded pink. Or if those friends were so exuberant that they burst out into show tunes, simply because they wanted to do so, whether it was a gay thing or not.

Because it's not like straight guys ram their sexuality down other people's throats, is it? Unless it's spring break in Florida. Or they're on a bachelor party weekend in Prague or Munich (that's where I live). Or have a Halloween costume that's a sexy this or slutty that. Or go to Hooters. Or moon the police. Or ogle cheerleaders at a football game. Or soup up their car so it makes more noise. Or anything.

If I were a straight guy, should I feel embarrassed at the number of straight men whom I can find on a golf course? Or can find at Nascar? Or who pick up a game of basketball and fail miserably? They're all stereotypes, too.

No, I say good for the golfers and the drunks and the beer pong and the dad jokes and the guys watching their team in a sports bar—I might be there with them. Let them slobber over attractive women respectfully and from a safe distance. Let them manspread, if there's nobody else who needs a seat. Let them scratch their balls while they're at it.

I'll smile at them, and I'll chuckle at human nature. That's part of enjoying the diversity of sexual/gender/whatever expression. May a thousand flowers bloom.

Including the pink ones.

 

[tms88]

I'm in my 60's we fought FOR the right to be as flamboyant as we want in public. Who started the modern gay rights movement? Drag queens.......

I applaud you for fighting for the way to express yourself as you want! That's an incredible effort that has opened up so many eyes and also oppurtunities for likeminded people. Nothing but respect!

I am simply saying that being flamboyant in my opinion has nothing to do with sexual preference. You can be introverted and gay, just like you can be flamboyant and colorful when you are straight. I don't understand why people link those two things together. Live and let live! Be whatever want and what makes you happy.

the OP talks about being offended for being mistaken as straight.

Being offended by it is a bit of an exaggeration. Ofcourse I am not really hurt by something like that. The point I was trying to make, is that stereotypes created these labels, that go both ways. It's not just straight people who wrongly get the label 'gay' for simply being more colorful, so to say. It's also gay people who don't 'look gay enough' by these standards, which is just absurd to me. It shouldn't be like that.

Some of us go through life and it is obvious that we are gay. I've been obviously gay since childhood. You could probably tell I'm gay from space. Would you prefer that I hide so that you're more comfortable with your heteronormative appearance?

I have been gay as well, with the occasional girl crush. I guess that makes me bi, technically, but in general I am attracted to men.

The issue I have is that sexual preference shouldn't be visible. It is literally just the gender you are attracted to. That is completely unrelated to everything else. What you refer to as 'heteronormative appearance' is something I don't think exists. Why are you putting labels on an appearance? That's so counterproductive in so many ways.

Any person should be able to wear whatever they please without the fear of being labeled.

 

[Industrialsize]

I applaud you for fighting for the way to express yourself as you want! That's an incredible effort that has opened up so many eyes and also oppurtunities for likeminded people. Nothing but respect!

I am simply saying that being flamboyant in my opinion has nothing to do with sexual preference. You can be introverted and gay, just like you can be flamboyant and colorful when you are straight. I don't understand why people link those two things together. Live and let live! Be whatever want and what makes you happy.


Being offended by it is a bit of an exaggeration. Ofcourse I am not really hurt by something like that. The point I was trying to make, is that stereotypes created these labels, that go both ways. It's not just straight people who wrongly get the label 'gay' for simply being more colorful, so to say. It's also gay people who don't 'look gay enough' by these standards, which is just absurd to me. It shouldn't be like that.


I have been gay as well, with the occasional girl crush. I guess that makes me bi, technically, but in general I am attracted to men.

The issue I have is that sexual preference shouldn't be visible. It is literally just the gender you are attracted to. That is completely unrelated to everything else. What you refer to as 'heteronormative appearance' is something I don't think exists. Why are you putting labels on an appearance? That's so counterproductive in so many ways.

Any person should be able to wear whatever they please without the fear of being labeled.

Why should sexual preference be "invisible?" It's as much a part of me as my blue eyes.

 

[tms88]

I'm like you, @tms88. I'm not flamboyant. I drink beer. I dress like a slob. I can be found on couch, mostly. I have been an automotive professional for much of my working life. I have been known to change my own oil, and I built a lot of my own house. You wouldn't pick me on the street from my behaviour.

Unless I choose to kiss my husband in public, just like a straight guy would kiss his wife. Unless I put a rainbow sticker on my car, or wore a red ribbon badge in memory of the friends I lost. Or was out with a group of gay friends, who were so immoderate as to wear the dreaded pink. Or if those friends were so exuberant that they burst out into show tunes, simply because they wanted to do so, whether it was a gay thing or not.

Because it's not like straight guys ram their sexuality down other people's throats, is it? Unless it's spring break in Florida. Or they're on a bachelor party weekend in Prague or Munich (that's where I live). Or have a Halloween costume that's a sexy this or slutty that. Or go to Hooters. Or moon the police. Or ogle cheerleaders at a football game. Or soup up their car so it makes more noise. Or anything.

If I were a straight guy, should I feel embarrassed at the number of straight men whom I can find on a golf course? Or can find at Nascar? Or who pick up a game of basketball and fail miserably? They're all stereotypes, too.

No, I say good for the golfers and the drunks and the beer pong and the dad jokes and the guys watching their team in a sports bar—I might be there with them. Let them slobber over attractive women respectfully and from a safe distance. Let them manspread, if there's nobody else who needs a seat. Let them scratch their balls while they're at it.

I'll smile at them, and I'll chuckle at human nature. That's part of enjoying the diversity of sexual/gender/whatever expression. May a thousand flowers bloom.

Including the pink ones.

I completely agree with you! Just because I posted it int he 'gay men' section of the website, this discussion can/should be wider. There are really big and toxic stereotypes about straight people as well, and they are just as problematic in my opinion.

This is why I opened this discussion, because if you take away gay stereotypes, it immediatly removes straight stereotypes. I am convinced that would be a better world

Why should sexual preference be "invisible?" It's as much a part of me as my blue eyes.

Because I simply think it shouldn't matter what someones sexual preference is.
Sexual preference doesn't define you, it's simply a part of yourself like so many things.
I don't see why that should reflect in the way you dress/style yourself.

 

[Industrialsize]

Because I simply think it shouldn't matter what someones sexual preference is.
Sexual preference doesn't define you, it's simply a part of yourself like so many things.
I don't see why that should reflect in the way you dress/style yourself.

i agree, it shouldn't matter to anyone what my sexual preference is. But, You still haven't told me why it should be invisible. You have the ability to "pass" as straight, an ability that I don't possess. So I'm to become invisible?

 

[tms88]

i agree, it shouldn't matter to anyone what my sexual preference is. But, You still haven't told me why it should be invisible.

Because I think nobody should be judged/labelled for the way they look.

 

[Industrialsize]

Because I think nobody should be judged/labelled for the way they look.

I agree, But you still haven’t told me why my sexuality should be invisible.

 

[tms88]

I agree, But you still haven’t told me why my sexuality should be invisible.

Because it shouldnt be your sexuality that you are showing, but simply your style.

Like I said before, wear anything you like, what makes you feel good and what you are comfortable.
I just don't think you should link your style to the fact that you're attracted to the same gender.
The two don't correlate and they don't depend on eachother.