Hong Kong And The People's Republic Of China

tripod

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Hong Kong is part of China. Britain had NO FUCKING RIGHT to seize it as a colonial possession.

ENGLAND WAS SMUGGLING OPIUM INTO CHINA ILLEGALLY. When China objected... we got the Opium Wars.

England INVADED & OCCUPIED China so that the roughly 1,400 tons of opium a year they were selling inside China could continue unabated.

Hong Kong was a part of China since 243 BCE, and it remained almost constantly under Chinese control for the next 2,000 years...

... until Britain decided it wanted to become the drug dealer to the world. England used it's Royal Navy and Marines to invade and occupy China. Ceding Hong Kong was the blood soaked prize with which England walked away with (along with five Chinese ports which allowed England to offload it's OPIUM DRUGS)

and now the Western world wants to criticize China for their efforts to TAKE BACK WHAT IS THEIRS.

FUCK ENGLAND and their colonialism. Colonialism is BAD people.

When you criticize China for doing what is WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS, you support the visages of Colonialism while simultaneously feeding it's hungry ghost.
 
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Hong Kong is part of China. Britain had NO FUCKING RIGHT to seize it as a colonial possession.

ENGLAND WAS SMUGGLING OPIUM INTO CHINA ILLEGALLY. When China objected... we got the Opium Wars.

England INVADED & OCCUPIED China so that the roughly 1,400 tons of opium a year they were selling inside China could continue unabated.

Hong Kong was a part of China since 243 BCE, and it remained almost constantly under Chinese control for the next 2,000 years...

... until Britain decided it wanted to become the drug dealer to the world. England used it's Royal Navy and Marines to invade and occupy China. Ceding Hong Kong was the blood soaked prize with which England walked away with (along with five Chinese ports which allowed England to offload it's OPIUM DRUGS)

and now the Western world wants to criticize China for their efforts to TAKE BACK WHAT IS THEIRS.

FUCK ENGLAND and their colonialism. Colonialism is BAD people.

When you criticize China for doing what is WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS, you support the visages of Colonialism while simultaneously feeding it's hungry ghost.
Wrong.

War broke out between England and China, because - as with now - China was insisting on unfair trade advantages.

England had pretty much tariff free trade - and established it throughout the Empire - whereas China put enormous restrictions on imported goods - not just against England.

In order to gain a toe-hold, and balance trade between China and the rest of the world more fairly, Britain sought to establish trading posts - Hong Kong being one of these.

China impounded a load of British goods (Opium mainly) and refused to reimburse Britain - hence war broke out, with Britain emerging victorious.

It was NOT just about opium, it was about free trade.

Hong Kong Island was ceded to us - whereas the New Territories were a 99 year lease. We decided to hand it all back - including Hong Kong island, which was legally ours - in order to protect Hong Kong's future and integrity.
 

tripod

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War broke out between England and China, because - as with now - China was insisting on unfair trade advantages.

England had pretty much tariff free trade - and established it throughout the Empire - whereas China put enormous restrictions on imported goods - not just against England.

So in your mind, the Opium Wars weren't about opium and Britain's colonialism was merely England fighting for fair trade advantages... right... okay.

This is your opinion, an opinion not based on facts.

In order to gain a toe-hold, and balance trade between China and the rest of the world more fairly, Britain sought to establish trading posts - Hong Kong being one of these.

I don't even now what to say to this... it's just far removed from reality in some sort of historical revisionism.

Is this the sort of lies they teach school children in the UK? Where do you get this bullshit?

China impounded a load of British goods (Opium mainly) and refused to reimburse Britain - hence war broke out, with Britain emerging victorious.

The opium trade resulted in 10–12 million Chinese addicts and devastated the large coastal Chinese cities.

Britain would sail the opium into Canton and it was ILLEGALLY smuggled into China. China had EVERY FUCKING RIGHT to seize the CONTRABAND that was entering into their country

The British East India Company was interested in becoming rich by sending as many Chinese citizens into crippling addiction as they could via smuggling drugs into China.

Your historical revisionism is as lacking in facts as it is tone deaf.

It's ridiculous and disgusting actually.
 

Drifterwood

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Do the opinions of the Hong Kong people matter at all?

Not really to the Mainland.

Hong Kong people are generally Hong Kongers first and Chinese second. They are well educated, very well informed, prosperous through their own endeavour have a unique and independent culture.

Some, mainly older people, would rather avoid confrontation, but most do not wish a future under the politically totalitarian system of now life President Xi.
 

Klingsor

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Not really to the Mainland.

Hong Kong people are generally Hong Kongers first and Chinese second. They are well educated, very well informed, prosperous through their own endeavour have a unique and independent culture.

Some, mainly older people, would rather avoid confrontation, but most do not wish a future under the politically totalitarian system of now life President Xi.

All of which, to my mind, is more important than what happened decades or centuries ago.
 

tripod

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I appreciate the dueling history lessons.

They weren't "dueling" history lessons. One was actual history, the other was colonial apologia disguised as historical revisionism.

Do the opinions of the Hong Kong people matter at all?

Did England consider the opinions of the Chinese people before they seized Hong Kong?

Their opinions didn't matter then, yet somehow their opinions matter now?

Have you looked at a map lately? Is Hong Kong near the West or is it in China?

The Chinese citizens of Hong Kong weren't given a choice whether or not to become a colony of England... they ultimately GOT USED TO IT AND MANAGED TO CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES.

Which is precisely what they currently must do... get used to the new lifestyle of being Chinese again. being Chinese isn't a fucking torture sentence. Considering being Chinese as being horrible and being Western as being great is simply Western exceptionalism at work.

Being Chinese is just fine and isn't at all worse than being Western.

The chance of protests and unrest having an ounce of an effect on the Chinese attitude about Hong Kong's sovereignty is nil.

All of which, to my mind, is more important than what happened decades or centuries ago.

Hilarious how the citizens, governments & media of the West (whom acted like pure murderous barbarians during their colonial periods) just want everyone to stop focusing on the past... stop focusing on their misdeeds and sins while let's all focus on how the feel "right now".

How about you consider what CHINA FEELS OR WHAT CHINA THINKS?

China's needs are never a consideration to the West.

China's great sin has always been the fact that they are not capitalist... a sin that is unforgivable and without redemption. The only redemption is to adopt capitalism. Until they do, the West will constantly demonize, criticize & interfere in the policies of China.
 
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Drifterwood

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They weren't "dueling" history lessons. One was actual history, the other was colonial apologia disguised as historical revisionism.



Did England consider the opinions of the Chinese people before they seized Hong Kong?

Their opinions didn't matter then, yet somehow their opinions matter now?

Have you looked at a map lately? Is Hong Kong near the West or is it in China?

The Chinese citizens of Hong Kong weren't given a choice whether or not to become a colony of England... they ultimately GOT USED TO IT AND MANAGED TO CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES.

Which is precisely what they currently must do... get used to the new lifestyle of being Chinese again. being Chinese isn't a fucking torture sentence. Considering being Chinese as being horrible and being Western as being great is simply Western exceptionalism at work.

Being Chinese is just fine and isn't at all worse than being Western.

The chance of protests and unrest having an ounce of an effect on the Chinese attitude about Hong Kong's sovereignty is nil.



Hilarious how the citizens, governments & media of the West (whom acted like pure murderous barbarians during their colonial periods) just want everyone to stop focusing on the past... stop focusing on their misdeeds and sins while let's all focus on how the feel "right now".

How about you consider what CHINA FEELS OR WHAT CHINA THINKS?

China's needs are never a consideration to the West.

China's great sin has always been the fact that they are not capitalist... a sin that is unforgivable and without redemption. The only redemption is to adopt capitalism. Until they do, the West will constantly demonize, criticize & interfere in the policies of China.

Your passion is misplaced. China is itself an Empire of hundreds of cultures, now mainly subsumed by authoritarian Han Chinese domination.

China is nominally communist or socialist in politics, but in reality it is an autocratic bureaucracy. People who aren't involved with the one party management of the country are left in no doubt that they should not get involved. Politics is for the party, not the people. The people face an increasingly rigid set of "good citizen" rules. These are monitored and failure to comply leads to the loss of many human rights.

Economically, China is not communist, (the Chinese people are at least as entrepreneurial as anyone else) however they have achieved a remarkable sharing of wealth that by itself has lifted more people out of poverty than any other country.

The history is for manipulation of the present by those with another agenda (like you perhaps), modern China is rooted in the life and work of Deng Xiaoping, a remarkable man. Well, it was until Xi came to power and put a vice like grip on the country.
 
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Perados

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Hong Kong is part of China. Britain had NO FUCKING RIGHT to seize it as a colonial possession.

ENGLAND WAS SMUGGLING OPIUM INTO CHINA ILLEGALLY. When China objected... we got the Opium Wars.

England INVADED & OCCUPIED China so that the roughly 1,400 tons of opium a year they were selling inside China could continue unabated.

Hong Kong was a part of China since 243 BCE, and it remained almost constantly under Chinese control for the next 2,000 years...

... until Britain decided it wanted to become the drug dealer to the world. England used it's Royal Navy and Marines to invade and occupy China. Ceding Hong Kong was the blood soaked prize with which England walked away with (along with five Chinese ports which allowed England to offload it's OPIUM DRUGS)

and now the Western world wants to criticize China for their efforts to TAKE BACK WHAT IS THEIRS.

FUCK ENGLAND and their colonialism. Colonialism is BAD people.

When you criticize China for doing what is WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS, you support the visages of Colonialism while simultaneously feeding it's hungry ghost.
You mix two things that have barely anything to do with each other.

Yes, 150 years ago Britain was a drug dealer...
But today we have a democratically Hong Kong, with citizens fighting for their freedom and their rights.
Do you argue, these people have to accept what ever Beijing says, because Britain was a thug once?
 

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They weren't "dueling" history lessons. One was actual history, the other was colonial apologia disguised as historical revisionism.

Did England consider the opinions of the Chinese people before they seized Hong Kong?

Their opinions didn't matter then, yet somehow their opinions matter now?

Have you looked at a map lately? Is Hong Kong near the West or is it in China?

The Chinese citizens of Hong Kong weren't given a choice whether or not to become a colony of England... they ultimately GOT USED TO IT AND MANAGED TO CHANGE THEIR LIFESTYLES.

Which is precisely what they currently must do... get used to the new lifestyle of being Chinese again. being Chinese isn't a fucking torture sentence. Considering being Chinese as being horrible and being Western as being great is simply Western exceptionalism at work.

Being Chinese is just fine and isn't at all worse than being Western.

The chance of protests and unrest having an ounce of an effect on the Chinese attitude about Hong Kong's sovereignty is nil.



Hilarious how the citizens, governments & media of the West (whom acted like pure murderous barbarians during their colonial periods) just want everyone to stop focusing on the past... stop focusing on their misdeeds and sins while let's all focus on how the feel "right now".

How about you consider what CHINA FEELS OR WHAT CHINA THINKS?

China's needs are never a consideration to the West.

China's great sin has always been the fact that they are not capitalist... a sin that is unforgivable and without redemption. The only redemption is to adopt capitalism. Until they do, the West will constantly demonize, criticize & interfere in the policies of China.

I'm sorry, but all of that seems beside the point. The people of Hong Kong should have a say in determining their fate.
 

tripod

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I'm sorry, but all of that seems beside the point. The people of Hong Kong should have a say in determining their fate.

Do you argue, these people have to accept what ever Beijing says, because Britain was a thug once?

I argue that Hong Kong residents are now CHINESE. The Chinese already have a political system in place and the residents of Hong Kong must adopt this system.

There is no way around this... to think that there IS a way around this, is magical thinking.
 

Industrialsize

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I argue that Hong Kong residents are now CHINESE. The Chinese already have a political system in place and the residents of Hong Kong must adopt this system.

There is no way around this... to think that there IS a way around this, is magical thinking.
Are all the people of Crimea Russian?
 
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Perados

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I argue that Hong Kong residents are now CHINESE. The Chinese already have a political system in place and the residents of Hong Kong must adopt this system.
they have to... why?
The people of Hong Kong made very clear what they want and what not.
It sounds like you say people have to accept dictatorship and no right to be against it, as long as its exist.
There is no way around this... to think that there IS a way around this, is magical thinking.
China signed a contract that they will respect democratic freedoms of Hong Kong.

I understand that the single party system of China will try everything to get Hong Kong in line.
The question is, do I, or everyone will have to share this position?
My clear answer is no. I don't have to share this point of view, nore does anyone in Hong Kong.

Beijing fears what a democratic city inside a totalitarian system could mean.