Hoo Rah for atheists!

DiscoBoy

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Pious: marked by sham or hypocrisy : marked by self-conscious virtue

Or

a: marked by or showing reverence for deity and devotion to divine worship b:marked by conspicuous religiosity <a hypocrite—a thing all pious words and uncharitable deeds — Charles Reade>
Like I said I am not going to show repect to a hypocrite who spends his life grovelling to some non existant sky fairy for fear of being punished, thats just pathetic.
I hope they treat you with the same amount of respect you've afforded them. To them, their views are correct and our views are wrong. You're just as much of an idiot to them as they are to you. No matter how hypocritical or delusional you or I may deem them, they have a right to believe what they want. You also can't deny that they perform a lot of good in the world.

I find it pathetic that you're unwilling to respect a large portion of the world's population based on their beliefs.
 

Mark_UK

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Oh yeah religion does a lot of good in the world like causing huge amounts of human suffering and misery, starting wars and going on crusades.Condeming unmarried mothers to life in workhouses like the sisters of mercy, supporting nazi regimes like the pope during the second world war, allowing lunatic scum like Fred Phelps to spread his insane hate filled teaching.The list goes on and on but its all good stuff.
 

dolfette

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Oh yeah religion does a lot of good in the world like causing huge amounts of human suffering and misery, starting wars and going on crusades.Condeming unmarried mothers to life in workhouses like the sisters of mercy, supporting nazi regimes like the pope during the second world war, allowing lunatic scum like Fred Phelps to spread his insane hate filled teaching.The list goes on and on but its all good stuff.
no, PEOPLE cause suffering, PEOPLE go on crusades, PEOPLE condemn unmarried mothers.
people followed hitler, people supported stalin, people did plenty without faith playing a part.
human nature is brutal and when we rally under a banner to do evil, is it the blame of the banner?
people choose.
if there is no god then the ''teachings'' are but the word of man.
and man chooses to follow. to warp all causes to his own ends.
the path of love and the path of hate are both walked under the same banner.

with or without faith, we're the angels and the demons.
 

B_Hung Jon

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"If believers could only be trusted to keep their imaginary friend to themselves, that would be one thing... but no, they try to force their belief down everyone else's throat through law, by taking over school boards, by flooding the airwaves with notions that NOT believing in their delusion make people evil...and then flying planes into buildings and shooting doctors in their OWN CHURCH...."


This is put very well. It is why I fear religion.
 
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darkbond007

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I can never understand why this is so. Every time I tell someone I'm an atheist, they immediately proceed to "enlightening" me on why my "religion" and views are wrong. Well, it isn't a religion and as such doesn't have a doctrine. You can't assume anything about an atheist's beliefs (outside of disbelieving in a deity). So don't go providing me with "scientifc" evidence as to why the Big Bang Theory is completely invalid when you're not even sure whether I believe in that or not. And I can celebrate any holiday I want for any reason I want. I don't need someone telling me I can't give/receive gifts on Christmas or even watch Christmas specials simply because I'm an atheist. Too bad, I can and will do it.

No need to put down religious people though. Essentially, they have great ideals.

I handle this differently.

First off there really is no conversation for me. I don't even go the scientific route. There is no acknowledgment. I treat it the same way as Greek mythology or fairy tale stories. This accomplishes two things:

1. It puts them on the defensive...where they should be
2. It allows me to address the situation on my terms if I chose to.

If someone came up to me and asked why I don't believe in unicorns, I don't see what good could come from a conversation like that. There are other things I'd rather be doing. I don't care if someone else likes unicorns or how much it gives their life meaning. It's nonsense.

I also don't like the fact that religious people get to ask all the questions. I always turn it back on them. They're the ones making the claim, they should support it. They should be on the defensive. The critic has no responsibility to prove that god or unicorns don't exist unless they come right out and say "god and unicorns don't exist." I don't say that. I just say that I don't believe in a God or gods or unicorns. That simple.

See, the problem is this: we're surrounded by religion in one for or another. It's in our language, our customs, and if you look for it, you'll find it. It's also respected and practiced by most people, so it seems, being in the minority, on the other side, that there's this monolithic monster that needs to be overcome and it can't ever be.

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. I used to get quite stressed about religion, but not anymore. Once you start viewing religion historically, in context, and you stop being concerned about drawing comparisons, it's much easier to deal with. Doesn't mean you have to deny the fact that the people around you believe weird things, but it helps to put those beliefs in context.

If you treat religion as any other belief, what happens? If it's no different than Greek mythology, what happens? If it's no different than beliefs in the supernatural, such as ghosts, vampires, and witches, what happens? What approach do we take with those other things?

We dismiss them, right? We might still like the person that has those beliefs, but we don't take them seriously, and we should be comfortable to say so if asked. Doesn't mean you have to attack people, but if I meet someone who is trying to convince me that I need to take what basically amounts to a herbal tea to get the toxins out of my body, am I going to sit down with him or her and explain the fundamentals of biology?

Am I going to walk down the street to the psychic fair and start going around proving that they're fakes? Am I going to argue for hours and hours in a university debate with some guy that believes he can talk to the dead?

If I am going to do that I better damn well be getting paid for it or earning some type of income from it, directly or indirectly. I'm not saying that discussing these issues with people is ALWAYS pointless, but it is MOSTLY pointless.

Imagine someone coming up to you at lunch, a co-worker, and sitting down with you. He starts to tell you that he has a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in his backyard. Once you get over your initial shock and you realize he's not joking, what do you say? He tells you about how difficult it is to excavate diamonds, how unusual this is, but that he belongs to a group that studies them. He feels it's best to leave the diamond there for now because he makes decent money and it would be hard to find someone qualified enough to break down the diamond while still maintaining its value. He also has some emotional attachment to the diamond because it's belonged to his family for hundreds of years. His grandparents are buried next to the diamond, and he has parties on top of it.

You might ask for evidence, you might call him crazy, but does it really matter what you do? It's a ridiculous example, but we're surrounded by far more silly belief systems. We may not believe them ourselves, but we don't offer much resistance.

By resistance, I don't mean arguing. Resistance, real resistance, is
much more subtle than that. Dismissing something is far more powerful than arguing about it. When you argue, the perception is that you respect the opposite position enough to attack it. I don't think there's anything worth attacking. It's not worthy my time because it means nothing to me.

Now, that's my current perspective. It might change. I'm different than other atheists (and don't mistake that for saying I think I am better, I am just different). They still find value in attacking and arguing and having bus campaigns. I support them, but that's not how I want to spend my time. I'll read the books, support the organizations, share articles and interviews that I find interesting, etc., but that's it.

Going back to the original poster and your post. I don't see anything wrong with what he did. Like I said if it was a "Praise God for my Big Penis" thread people would be ALL over it and most people would see nothing wrong with it. But at the same time I think it's less about combat and more about having more important things to think about in life. I also don't think people should be "respected" solely on them being religious. I dont think their should be an assumption that they are morally sound because they are religious. If you look at it how I outlined it above then I look at them as a person minus their beliefs and quite frankly they can be anything. They can be the nicest person in the world, a true gem of humanity, they can be a terrorist, they can be a priest who molests little boys, they can be the best doctor or lawyer you have and they can be your best friend (like my best friend who is very religious).
 
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DiscoBoy

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Hm...
I handle this differently.

First off there really is no conversation for me. I don't even go the scientific route. There is no acknowledgment. I treat it the same way as Greek mythology or fairy tale stories.

I gave up arguing a long time ago. Like I said, I went to a Catholic school so I soon learned that the arguing was pointless. For the most part anyway. I just brush them off.

Now, that's my current perspective. It might change. I'm different than other atheists (and don't mistake that for saying I think I am better, I am just different). They still find value in attacking and arguing and having bus campaigns. I support them, but that's not how I want to spend my time. I'll read the books, support the organizations, share articles and interviews that I find interesting, etc., but that's it.

I do the same. I've seen some ridiculous propositions for a "Church of Atheism" which I find would defeat the whole purpose of being an atheist. I use the word as a simple noun, not some kind of label or title. I'll start calling myself atheistic if need be.

Going back to the original poster and your post. I don't see anything wrong with what he did. Like I said if it was a "Praise God for my Big Penis" thread people would be ALL over it and most people would see nothing wrong with it. But at the same time I think it's less about combat and more about having more important things to think about in life. I also don't think people should be "respected" solely on them being religious. I dont think their should be an assumption that they are morally sound because they are religious. If you look at it how I outlined it above then I look at them as a person minus their beliefs and quite frankly they can be anything. They can be the nicest person in the world, a true gem of humanity, they can be a terrorist, they can be a priest who molests little boys, they can be the best doctor or lawyer you have and they can be your best friend (like my best friend who is very religious).

Oh, I don't have any problem with what the original poster did. Every person's got a right to express their opinion. And I'm not trying to say that people should be respected solely on them being religious, but that they shouldn't be DISrespected solely on them being religious. The other poster pointed out the flaws in religious people and I was trying to point out the positives. I may have exaggerated a bit, but it was for the sake of the argument. That last sentence is exactly what I've been trying to point out. You can't and shouldn't generalize a group of people based on their religiosity.
 

Mark_UK

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We need to have a society where religious people are treated as the fruitloops that they are. its not good beating round the bush and saying 'Oh I think you views are complete and utter crap but I respect you for holding them' some of these fundamentalists are deeply dangerous people who do a great deal of harm. This is where American society with its free speech and free guns for any raving psyco has gone very wrong.
 

6inchirishmexican

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Not ALL religious people are, as you say, "fruitloops." There definitely are some dangerous people in various religious communities, but like with every group, there are good and bad people. We're ALL sharing the same world, whether anyone likes it or not.
 

StormyB

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We need to have a society where religious people are treated as the fruitloops that they are. its not good beating round the bush and saying 'Oh I think you views are complete and utter crap but I respect you for holding them' some of these fundamentalists are deeply dangerous people who do a great deal of harm. This is where American society with its free speech and free guns for any raving psyco has gone very wrong.

No thank you, I don't want to live in a society that discrimminates against anyone or group of individuals, Is that not what the everyone's fighting to remove from society now? Not to be rude, but you calling all religious people "fruitloops" makes you sound very ignorant, yeah there are a few "deeply rooted" religious people out there, but for you to call them names just because you don't understand or believe in their ways shows that you are no better than a bigot. Grow up.
 

Snozzle

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I prefer to be called a Freethinker. The A-word is too provocative. Remember Madalyn Murray O'Hair!
The US is very odd: it seems that for decades in the whole country there was only one atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair. In the rest of the western world, it's nothing like such a big deal. The Prime Minister of New Zealand for the last nine years was non-religious. I'm pretty sure if you'd asked, she'd have said she was an atheist, or at least that "I don't believe in a God." She took an affirmation instead of an oath of office. And the present PM, though he's further to the right, says much the same, so it was never an election issue. About 1/3 of the population say they have no religion.

You don't have to assert that there is/are no god/dess/es to be an atheist, just deny believing in any. What's provocative about that?
 

dolfette

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No thank you, I don't want to live in a society that discrimminates against anyone or group of individuals, Is that not what the everyone's fighting to remove from society now? Not to be rude, but you calling all religious people "fruitloops" makes you sound very ignorant, yeah there are a few "deeply rooted" religious people out there, but for you to call them names just because you don't understand or believe in their ways shows that you are no better than a bigot. Grow up.
i saw a bumper sticker once...

''hire a teenager while they still know everything''

i laughed.
 

dolfette

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i have a friend who is as much an athiest as i am.

about 20 years ago her baby daughter was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer...we're talking maybe 10% chance of survival.
sitting in that hospital, week after week, watching her child, she started praying. she talked to 'god', made a deal, promised and begged and cried.

looking back she thinks it was silly...but in that moment, for the sake of her sanity, to give her the strength to keep going, she believed in god.
and she got through it.

is that a shitty, ignorant, bigotted thing for her to have done?
or is it a shitty, ignorant, bigotted preson who would judge her for that?

it's a tough world and if people need something to get through {be it antidepressants, therapy, good friends, a loving family or prayer} then i'm not going to piss on them for it.

i'll reserve my condemnation for the individuals who are shitty people
 

darkbond007

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There are dangerous people around the world. Whether they be religious or not. Don't think for a second a stranger can shout across the street to me that they are atheist and I promptly walk over to them and hug them.

I think we need to put religion in the right context and treat it as an entity the same way we would treat other nonsensical things.
 

Phil Ayesho

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i'm an athiest.
i know a lot of athiests.
and being an athiest never stopped anyone being a narrow minded, judgemental, death fearing, disrespectful arsehole with no appreciation of the wonder of life.

i'll savbe my hoo rahs for individuals who deserve them.

A good and important point.

Being rational doesn't make you a better person.
And it doesn't make you enlightened.
 

SovietMEAT

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Hoo Rah for those who live free!
Hoo Rah for those who live without fear!
Hoo Rah for those who respect others always!
Hoo Rah for those who do not buy into manipulative lies!
Hoo Rah for those who can appreciate the beauty in all things of life!

Hoo Rah for ATHEISTS!

and Agnostics. You get Hoo Rahs too.

Bible Thumpers: Don't be hatin' on me. I never bashed you here. I merely pointed out the benifits of not following a religion.
not taking sides but i just like to point out that i have noticed most homosexuals are non religious and some are in-your-face anti-religion.
i guess it is because of religions position against them,
just putting that out there.
 

Phil Ayesho

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We need to have a society where religious people are treated as the fruitloops that they are. its not good beating round the bush and saying 'Oh I think you views are complete and utter crap but I respect you for holding them' some of these fundamentalists are deeply dangerous people who do a great deal of harm. This is where American society with its free speech and free guns for any raving psyco has gone very wrong.


Religious people should be treated no differently than any other people.
All I would ask for is that religious CLAIMS be subjected to the same standards of proof as any other kind of claims.

This goes for new age crystal aroma-therapeutic healing touch malarky, as well.

You invoke God or 'spirituality' and everybody has to just nod their head mindlessly over the ensuing series of absolutist statements without foundation.


The idea that MOST americans would vote for a Muslim rather than for an atheist bespeaks a profound bias against the rational. And a technologically dependent civilization can not long survive with an anti-rational zeitgeist.

People are free to believe whatever they wish... but that does not mean their beliefs automatically deserve respect.

I am not proposing treating "religious" ideas skeptically... I am proposing treating ALL IDEAS equally skeptically.

Right now in this society, if I make a claim about diet plan, I have to pony up proof... but religious pronouncements get a free pass.
Hell, Fantasy football leagues get examined more rigorously than do notions about the Almighty.


BTW- I have similarly low respect for people's belief in "dark matter"... even rational scientists are prone to self delusion and believing in things because it would support the world view they wish were true.


I don't want the religious treated differently. I want their ideas, for once, treated the same. Subject to the same refutation, the same critique, the same testing as any other idea.


ETA- and when they can't explain, verify, nor prove their claims, they should step back and be embarrassed about forwarding baseless ideas.
 
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B_bi_mmf

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not taking sides but i just like to point out that i have noticed most homosexuals are non religious and some are in-your-face anti-religion.
i guess it is because of religions position against them,
just putting that out there.

Certainly, the hatred that many religions heap upon gays and bisexuals ought to be expected to help turn many away from religion. But there are also many other excellent reasons for thinking, caring people to reject religion.

Fortunately, non-belief is becoming increasingly accepted in the U.S.

Obama even talked positively about "non-believers" in his inaugural address.

I find it gratifying to see that religion is viewed as totally irrelevant by so many of the 20-somethings I have met.
 
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javyn

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I don't treat religious people any differently, as they do me for not believing. But I do silently think they are idiots. I mean, to claim that the existence of the banana disproves evolution? Come on!

Maybe after World War 3 and the Muslims, Christians, and Jews all eradicate each other, science and logic will rule the human mind and there can be peace perhaps.

That being said, I do find the militant atheists to be just as ignorant as the fundamentalist Christians I deal with. I don't believe in God, but I will change my mind if I was offered proof. I don't think many militant atheists would change their thinking in the face of scientific evidence, just like Christians don't.
 
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