Hostage in the closet

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Gisella, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. Gisella

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    :confused:

    Why people hostage themselves in the closet?

    Males or females that already know they have a preference for same sex relationships do not allow themselves to be what they are or think they are ? Why?

    I have an ideia about the suffer and pressure on expectations of others on them but how can a person are affraid to be just themselves? How can a person live without being true to themselves? How? And some insist in play what others dictate or find its easier to please or just being a coward and at least admit they are unsure of who they really are ?

    Why?

    I do ask that because when a person decide to hostage themselves in the closet and they insist in play a part that is not theirs they may involve others in make believe relationships that the one who are with them does not know that they are just "playing" a part...And were not honest and true...
     
  2. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    because most people are spineless, self-conscious opinion whores. this holds true regardless of their sexual orientation.
     
  3. DC_DEEP

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    Gisella, mil gracias for bringing this up. As a heterosexual woman, you just cannot understand what sexually "non-traditional" boys and girls go through, beginning at birth. Most parents are just clueless; some are downright abusive in teaching those children that what they feel is wrong. Forward 6 years: the teachers and other students pick up where the parents left off. Harrassment, ridicule. Forward another 6 years, in high school. Now is when it really starts setting in that every day you live in fear for your life. Yes, we gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgendered folks are told from the time we are teenage that there are lots and lots of folks out there who would be more than happy to kill us, simply because of our homosexuality - and many who would have us believe that killing us would be justified, because we make them uncomfortable.

    You probably missed some of my posts about discrimination against gays, in another thread. You probably think that we have legal protections in housing and employment. Unfortunately, that just is not the case. An overwhelming majority of states in the US went out of their way in crafting anti-discrimination laws, to ensure that "sexual orientation" is NOT protected.

    I hope that clears up some of your confusion.
     
  4. Wonderboy

    Wonderboy New Member

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    There's a lot of social prejudice. More about gay guys than gay girls. Can't type more because the insides of my finger is spilling out :(

    Yes its a deep cut.
     
  5. Gisella

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    Thank u guys...

    I do feel anguish in imagine myself when young and my first love for a boy...the one u first love and desire...at a young age...soo pure and inocent...and imagining that we can express this beautiful feeling but try to express and senses or being told that is not allowed or ok...to feel the way ones fell...

    This situation will mess up a little person for a long time..i think...because if i felt the feeling that i felt for a girl i may would not have the wonderful memories i have and was encouraged and understood but my parents and etc because they felt it was "normal" because once they felt the same...but still parents that love their child would notice that despite their child is going to the "other/same" gender it still love, still true and real...even if was not the way was "suppose" to in their eyes...

    I do feel anguish for any kid that feel their inocent love for someone is not allowed because many already know who they like very early in life at least i did although play doctor with girls i knew i like boys :tongue: ...but as they grow and get stronger voice in them how can still insist to see their expression of love to someone be dictate by others?

    For sure its no easy...but at least dont run from it and hide - face it. And i dont think is just about sexuality at all - is love, the object of our love.

    I'm a romantic and sex is most nice when u like them for sure.
     
  6. Gisella

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    Whats happened Wonderboy? Hope u recuperate soon!:wink:
     
  7. Wonderboy

    Wonderboy New Member

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    I was clearing out my flat, and the 'vanity shelf' I tried to clean fell...broke, and sliced my little/pinky finger. My French Friend bandaged it up though and applied alcohol etc. She'd make a good hot nurse ;)

    Merci beaucoup Gisella :)
     
  8. Riven650

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    There is still a trememdous amount of homophobia in our society. This is just a gut feeling G, but I'd suspect it would be easier to 'come out' if your parents are/were liberal and open minded than if they are/were bigoted conservatives. Can you imagine facing the shame, scorn, derision, etc. that would ensue?

    I can't really talk about how it feels for gays, because I'm straight, but:
    I have a bit of a foot fetish plus something of a piercing (etc.) fetish. Neither of these are things I couled easily talk to my family about. For their generation, my parents (RIP)were very with-it arty types. My sisters are similar. My friends include fetishists and gays with whom I can speak about almost anything, but I also have friends who are more conservative types whom I have reason to love just as much. I try to gently help them to understand fetishism, but I don't want to upset or repel them by confronting them with something they might be scared by. Perhaps that's spineless of me, Dr Rock, or perhaps I simply don't want to 'cut off my nose to spite my face' (if you understand that saying). I also was brought up to respect other people's space and not be confrontational and antagonistic unless it's absolutely necessary. I have some admiration for piercing fans who go the whole hog and display their body and facial piercings to all, but I'm aware that by nailing their colours to the mast like that they put themselves slightly at odds with society. I always felt that was a bit too much like martyrdom for me. Perhaps it takes a few risk takers to pioneer for us like that though, and get ordinary folk desensitised to our fetish (or sexual orientation, or whatever). I took a different kind of risk and plunged all my resources (and borrowed heavily!) into starting a magazine about body decoration which ended up on coffee tables all around the world - where it did some good I think. I still don't walk down the high street displaying my nipple ring though. :smile:
     
  9. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    Every society, in every time, has peculiarities which it thinks are perfectly normal. Society of 50 years ago seems bizarrely primitive to us today. The society of 50 years from now will consider us unlightened, even troglodytic. "Normal" is a moving target. And it is the nature of men in every age to forget this; thus they can consider themselves uniquely sensible, progressive, enlightened, etc. I suppose a good number of lpsg members fancy themselves to be quite sensible, progressive, and enlightened, too. You can be fairly sure that they won't seem that way to our successor generations.

    When I was young it was not "normal" to be left-handed, and society went to ridiculous lengths to "convert" me to right-handedness. I didn't have to endure any sort of social stigma, but I had to struggle with inappropriate hardware, such as right-handed scissors (they didn't make left-handers back then), and those little folding desks in college lecture halls which can only be used by righties (even though about 30% of my fellow students there were lefties). Baseball gloves, rifles, computer mice - all are still designed with righties in mind. And what's with those pens in the post office, chained over on the right? So I use the right-handed ones, albeit with some difficulty.

    When my mother was young, all the local Brooklyn corrupt politics, patronage, bribery, etc. was firmly in the hands of Democrats. She decided to register Republican, as she noticed that prominent Republicans of the Rockefeller mold were Mr Clean by comparison. Her father, an Irish lawyer with some knowledge of the workings of the NY Democratic cesspool, told her (doubtless correctly) that if she registered as a Republican, she would never be able to get a job in the New York teaching system. Since at the time she was considering a teaching career, she followed his advice.

    In the 1970s, one of the local attorneys grew a beard. A judge in the local courthouse - there were only two judges there - was an old fossil, and was overheard saying that that lawyer would never win a case in that judge's court (I have no idea why he was so down on beards). It's almost impossible to remove a judge, no matter how old and reactionary he might be.

    "Do your own thing" is a fine philosophy, so long as you don't have to interact with anyone else while doing it. One can resist the "normal" of any particular time or place, but there are penalties for doing so. They have little to do with internal conceptions of the "self", but everything to do with those one must live and work with - ie, society. So the "closet" is not to keep you in, so much as to keep them out.

    The specific cases I mentioned, while symptomatic, were relatively trivial, involving at worst perpetual poverty, and nothing so dramatic as, say, assaults, tarring & feathering, or lynching.

    In the case of sexual orientation problems, I'm not qualified to offer any useful insights.
     
  10. DC_DEEP

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    And Gisella, you are right, it isn't easy. Not only do sexual minorities have to deal first with family (and usually church), then school, then the local community... there are groups and organizations (some very large and wealthy ones), who are VERY actively working to ensure that homosexuals will never have a place in our society. Just a short list of those include: American Family Association; Alliance Defense Fund; Accuracy in Media; American Daily; Stand to Reason; Focus on Family (one of the largest, richest, and most active - they pour thousands and thousands of dollars into lobbying congress against me); Traditional Values Coalition; The Eagle Forum (founded by Phyllis Schlafly); Free Congress Foundation; Howard Center for Family, Religion, and Society; and Leadership University (a division of Telling the Truth Project). Just a few I could come up with on short notice. These groups and countless others are soliciting, receiving, and spending millions of dollars for one simple purpose: waging a war against homosexuality. Churches are sometimes completely without shame in attacking gays.
     
  11. taven

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    Thanks for such a well explained insight. Each one of us has his or her own specific story, but this is a good basic description of what we went through and young people today still experience.
     
  12. Gisella

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    Thanks everybody!!! :kiss: Very much!!!:smile:
     
  13. DC_DEEP

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    And don't forget, the majority of people here in USA think that gays are protected by anti-discrimination laws. The federal government, and most states do NOT have discrimination protection for gays. Which means that if you rent a home or apartment from someone who hates gays, they can LEGALLY evict you. Or if you are harrassed at work by homophobic coworkers or superiors, you have no legal recourse, you can even be fired.
     
  14. findfirefox

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    Yep it sadly true, for me I live in Oregon so I have a few things on my side.-

    "If you are a state, municipal or other local public employee, your employer may not discriminate against you because of sexual orientation or because you are not married to your same-sex partner. Federal law does not provide such protections to federal employees.

    In addition, case law and some local ordinances establish that private employers may not treat you differently from other employees based on sexual orientation. If you believe that you have been sexually harassed or discriminated against by a private employer, you may have a legal claim against that employer. The Bureau of Labor and Industries can also help enforce state non-discrimination law and some local ordinances. The phone number for the Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries is 503-673-0761."

    Sadly-
    " State law does not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation in housing or places of public accommodation, such as hotels, restaurants, or other businesses. Unless the law is changed, landlords and businesses in many communities may refuse to serve you because of your sexual orientation. If you have a question about such discrimination, you should ask a lawyer about the current laws. In other communities, you may be protected by local ordinance. Among communities with such laws are Ashland, Corvallis, Eugene, Lincoln City, and Portland, and Multnomah and Benton counties. The City of Ashland, for example, has a Fair Housing ordinance that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation in housing. The Corvallis and Portland ordinances prohibit discrimination in places of public accommodation and housing. The Bureau of Labor and Industries and the Fair Housing Council can help enforce these ordinances. The civil rights division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries can be reached at 503-673 0761 and the Fair Housing Council of Oregon may be reached at 503-223-8197 from Portland, and at 800-424-3247 from outside Portland."


    I live in Portland so I have the Fair Housing thing. (Though my landlord could care less)

    I really do think that it should be federal law that people can not discriminate against anybody for anything.
     
  15. D_Coyne Toss

    D_Coyne Toss New Member

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    Our culture forces everybody to play a part, not only homosexual persons.

    If you are not the exact standard, you might not be welcome in groups, or, generally, in the society. Take clothing: Italy is terribly conformist, everybody has the same jacket, with the same colours, young ladies have all the same haircut and so on. If you are different, you are automatically "uno sfigato" - approximately a looser.

    I dress the way i like and keep always my mind open.

    The recipt is: send them to hell and be yourself, it is worth it!
     
  16. DC_DEEP

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    Yes, PI, but you must admit... being snubbed by the "popular crowd" because you don't have the latest in fashion is not nearly the same thing as being dismissed from your job or evicted from your apartment simply because you are gay. I have never really cared about peer pressure, so being called uno sfigato would not bother me in the least. I would be a bit more unhappy if my employer said "we found out you are living with your gay lover. You no longer work here."

    And for those of you in the United States, do a little Google reading about Scott Bloch, the guy who is supposed to be the watchdog over "prohibited personnel practices" in the federal government. He has decided, with the blessing of the bush administration, that he will no longer abide by Pres. Clinton's executive order banning orientation discrimination, and will go strictly by US discrimination LAW, meaning that gays have no employment protections in the federal government.
     
  17. D_Coyne Toss

    D_Coyne Toss New Member

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    You are totally right Deep. Mine was just a general consideration, but what you and others described is discrimination.

    I would like to know why homophobic forces are so stron in your country: i mean, most Italians are at least perplexed about gay marriage BUT the social condamn for who discriminates homosexuals, in the workplace or somewhere else, is quite strong. Additionaly discrimination is a crime here.

    You know, people don't learn from history: slight discriminations many times turned slowly to massacres. And we still go on that way.
     
  18. findfirefox

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    The US is very against being progressive, people don't like change or things that "go against the bible". Some people also seem to believe that if gays can marry and get the same rights and things as everyone else the space time continuum would fall apart.

    Its going to be a long up hill battle for gay rights....
     
  19. Wave

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    regarding FindFireFox's comment that he thinks it should be illegal for anyone to discriminate against anything...whew, what a slippery slop THAT would be!
    of course, "discriminate" is a loaded word begging to be defined to begin with. but, all that said, i guess the only people being discriminated upon then would be those who weren't allowed to discriminate, eh?

    if you built a home and needed to move so you decided to rent it out....or if you built an apartment complex, etc......what you're then saying is that any one should be allowed to live in the residences you bought and paid for or paid for and built, regardless of whether you agree with the things they may or may not do in that place you have provided them?

    hmmnnnn......:confused:
     
  20. findfirefox

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    As long as they don't destroy the building or damage the property, yes, anyone should be able to live there. Its only fair and equal.
     
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