House wants to apologize for slavery, how much do u know?

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Yes, there needs to be an incentive to take care of yourself. That's why I think the welfare system should have been set up as a work/study program. If no jobs are available, and you need assistance, bring back the WPA.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Sorry Marley, I will not debate in private messages. You can keep your comments in the forum with the rest of the comments.

It's a lesson in frustration. He did the same to me all morning, and is still carrying on. His PM's make no sense at all. I feel that this issue is important, so I really don't want to abondon it. On the other hand, I am at my wit's end trying to deal with his nonsense. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells on this thread. I had no idea that I was so 'prejudice.'

He keeps mentioning relevance. I mentioned the disproportionate amount of black solderis in Iraq, the devistation that high-risk mortgages have caused black people in America, but he couldn't care less. What happened 150 years ago is far more relevant to today's America, so it seems.

 

[marleyisalegend]

At the risk of constituting spam, I'm trying to encourage more discussion about the topic, less discussion about me. Here's a third link to the answer to question #1 that hasn't been addressed in almost 2 pages of postings.

Until the answer is addressed, or the actual topic for that matter, I refuse to derail this thread addressing all the slanderous accusations and paper-thin feelings that are being hurt by the topic. Another member posted that sentiment about derailing relevant discussion more eloquently in this PM to me:

I work for a think tank in Washington and my personal belief on this is that people's views never really change that dramatically in exchanges and debate. In general I am fine writing this off as a basic flaw in human nature to avoid debates. What makes these particular sort of issues painful is that people are suffering now and no progress can be made. I really feel like this apology for slavery is a way for white liberals to assuage their guilt without making too heavy of a sacrifice. There is a new documentary on HBO about an inner city school (Roosevelt) in baltimore, and it is just heart breaking what these kids have to go through, yet nothing can be done because race is such a sensitive issue that any discussion of it devolves into people putting their fingers in their ears and giving it the old "lalala" treatment. Good luck.

The way I interpret that, 100 pages of research won't change the views of posters who will continually post that this topic is irrelevant. I've exhausted myself trying to address people who will NEVER acknowledge views outside their own.

Until further notice, this is my final address to the 2 pages of posts that have had NOTHING to do with the answer I posted. Here's the link to the answer to question #1, one more time for good measure.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Give me a break marley. YOu tried to pm me and claim the welfare system tries to get people jobs. sheesh.

rec3000, let's go get some food. I'll meet you at Casa Bella in 15 minutes, my treat. They have wonderful fresh pasta. mmmmm I want eggplant parmesan. It's a whole huge plate of food. What are you going to get?

 

[transformer_99]

1. How was Christopher Columbus introduced to slavery?

US elementary schools teach that Queen Isabella pawned her jewels to finance Columbus' trip. It was funded with Government money on the condition that Columbus repay with gold, spices, etc.. From Asia.

He failed to contact the emporer of China, Indian traders, and Japanese merchants so he repaid his debt with slaves. During his first voyage, Columbus landed on the island of Hispaniola (now San Salvador) and enslaved approx. 1200 Taino Indians. He sent some back to Spain where they were sold as slaves in 1495, 200 years before the transatlantic slave trade. Since he captured more slaves than he could fit on his ship, he put the rest to work in mines and plantations throughout the Caribbean.

It's believed that he and his men hunted the Indians for sport and profit. They beat, raped, tortured, and killed the Indians. Within 4 years of arriving on Hispaniola, Columbus and his men had killed or exported about 1/3 of the population of 300,000. It's also believed that disobedient slaves would, at his command, have their hands cut off and be left to bleed to death.

Apparently he was doing something sinister down there because, at the age of 53 in 1500, in the midst of physical (and possibly mental) sickness, Columbus was arrested when even his own men gave accounts of his practices in governing Hispaniola.



This is from his diary dated Thursday, October 11.

Here's the Wiki link (scrolls down to First Voyage) but, FWIW, they actually state the date of the diary entry as October 12.

Pretty much, all of you were correct, although his slaves weren't Native American Indians, they were Indians from a Caribbean Island. It would've been impossible for him to enslave North American Indians because he never landed in North America.

All one needs to do is watch the Mel Gibson movie, "The Bounty" to get an idea of the life and times. The Hollywood portrayal might be more or less accurate, but I can't imagine living during that time. I'm too much of a wimp to probably had lasted very long back then. How do you begin to compare a society that dealt as brutally with disobedience in the manner it did with today's methods ?

Compared to others, Columbus and that period in history, they were probably considered candy @sses ?

 

[marleyisalegend]

Moving forward, any thoughts on question #1? Click here for the answer in case you missed it.

Actually, until I did a bit of research, I was NOT aware that Columbus not only had slaves, but began an intense genocide of the Taino people, though it makes sense that, greedy as he was, he'd use human lives to pay off his debt, dispelling the fairy tale that the Queen Isabelle pawned jewelry to fund his trip.

How do you begin to compare a society that dealt as brutally with disobedience in the manner it did with today's methods ?

Unfortunately, I'm sure that in some cases, the only thing stopping genocide is the fact that we have media to alert the masses, it couldn't be "swept under the rug", and we have LOTS of citizens who would be up in arms to find out such practices, and the laws are on their side. Unfortuantely even that doesn't stop some of the behavior. :frown1:

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Yes, there needs to be an incentive to take care of yourself. That's why I think the welfare system should have been set up as a work/study program. If no jobs are available, and you need assistance, bring back the WPA.

I couldn't agree more, Hootie. I guess the post-war prosperity made the WPA irrelevant, but why not bring it back now that the prosperity has chilled? I have no doubt that many, maybe most, people on welfare/the dole want to work. If jobs aren't available, then the government can easily create them. It's been done before, I don't see why it can't be done again. Maybe I'm being overly-simplistic.

Oh, I love pasta!

Psst! Can you send me some FEMA vouchers?

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

It would not only give people a sense of pride that they are earning their own way, but they could acquire job skills, and the country could benefit. A large part of the clear cut forests were replanted with the WPA. Roads were built, bridges built, art work was commissioned. The country gave out and got something back in return. Man some of the art work was fabulous.


Marley, if you pm me with an insult anymore, I'm forwarding it to a mod. If you post something, people have the right to express their opinion. This is not YOUR classroom, and threads are open to exploration of other avenues. Post again when you are 48 and I'll see if you've learned anything.

Come on rec3000, let's go eat. Would you like Italian? TexMex? Southern cooking?

 

[deleted3782]

Marley, if you pm me with an insult anymore, I'm forwarding it to a mod.

I have had four private messages in 45 minutes from Marley. Each one gets more and more antagonistic.

Its a shame. I had no bad opinion of the man, until now.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

On a more positive note, Google America's Second Harvest. It's amazing what all they do. Plus, look at their who helps us section. The number or corporate sponsors is astounding.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

I have had four private messages in 45 minutes from Marley. Each one gets more and more antagonistic.

Its a shame. I had no bad opinion of the man, until now.

I just got another rude one and strongly worded a reply.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

rec3000, let's go have the cheese stuffed ravioli in tomato basil sauce at the Corner Bakery Cafe on Main street in Houston. We can watch all the people go past.

 

[deleted3782]

I just got another rude one and strongly worded a reply.

Ya, I just got another one too. I dont read 'em anymore.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

marley quit sending them. I'm not going to open them.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Boooh, WOooh, I am the ghost of the Answer to Question #1. Exwhysee, you complained about my non-existance, but since I was revealed, you've continued to forsake me! Boooh, WOOOO! Address me! Comment on me! You complained that I wasn't posted, but have yet to acknowledge me!!!:wink:

Just havin' a lil fun. How many pages are we gonna go before you address the answer you claimed wasn't posted?:tongue::dunno:

 

[marleyisalegend]

Answer to question #1.

 

[lucky8]

We want the rest dumbass

 

[marleyisalegend]

I apologize for the delayed response, but I DID already state that I was going to pause between answers to allow questions/comments/etc.. about each individual question. Maybe it's the OC in me, and I admit that it's slightly bossy, but my preference would've been the discussion to flow from answers to avoid question 1 being answered, then question 2 being answered, then question 3 being answered, then questions about the answe to #1, then questions, 4, 5, and 6 being answered then questions about answer #2. I also arrange my clothes by color and I never leave the house without the dishes being put up or something being out of place.

 

[deleted3782]

Boooh, WOooh, I am the ghost of the Answer to Question #1. Exwhysee, you complained about my non-existance, but since I was revealed, you've continued to forsake me! Boooh, WOOOO! Address me! Comment on me! You complained that I wasn't posted, but have yet to acknowledge me!!!:wink:

Just havin' a lil fun. How many pages are we gonna go before you address the answer you claimed wasn't posted?:tongue::dunno:

Nah, when I first contributed it was potentially fun and educational. Now the private messages have made it antagonistic and accusatory. You can enjoy this without my input.

Exwhysee backs out of the room very slowly and cautiously...

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

All one needs to do is watch the Mel Gibson movie, "The Bounty" to get an idea of the life and times. The Hollywood portrayal might be more or less accurate, but I can't imagine living during that time. I'm too much of a wimp to probably had lasted very long back then. How do you begin to compare a society that dealt as brutally with disobedience in the manner it did with today's methods ?

Compared to others, Columbus and that period in history, they were probably considered candy @sses ?

I didn't say he enslaved them, I said they were made into slaves. There were many other explorers. We were taught that often times they were made slaves around the missions. I remember learning that in elementary school.