Housing Is A Bad Investment

Thikn2velvet1

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Case–Shiller index - Wikipedia

Housing across the US appreciates at about 1% per year when adjusted for all factors. A mortgage today costs about 4%. Using 4% money to buy 1% money is a very good way to go broke. Maybe the best and simplest. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd fucked Americans bigly by not understanding economics.

Virtually every lib poster on this site sees housing investment as a good thing. It isn’t unless you are already fairly wealthy.

The year over year gain in buying an S and P 500 index fund with an expense ratio of .02%( Vanguard Admiral fund) is 14.4%(look it up). It is absolutely liquid and reliable.

This is a public service message and you will thank me later. ( of course you won’t but that’s ok.)
 

TexanStar

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Case–Shiller index - Wikipedia

Housing across the US appreciates at about 1% per year when adjusted for all factors. A mortgage today costs about 4%. Using 4% money to buy 1% money is a very good way to go broke. Maybe the best and simplest. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd fucked Americans bigly by not understanding economics.

Virtually every lib poster on this site sees housing investment as a good thing. It isn’t unless you are already fairly wealthy.

The year over year gain in buying an S and P 500 index fund with an expense ratio of .02%( Vanguard Admiral fund) is 14.4%(look it up). It is absolutely liquid and reliable.

This is a public service message and you will thank me later. ( of course you won’t but that’s ok.)

I can only speak from anecdotal experience.

In my anecdotal experience, home ownership has been a good thing. Been in my current home 5 years and it's appreciated about 10% per year.

My house prior to that I was in for 3 years and it appreciated approx 20-25% per year.

Even the home we bought near the bursting of the housing bubble we sold for about 10% more than we bought it for.

I know this is just anecdote, but I think if you're not over extending yourself and you're buying in a reasonably safe area you can make out okay. Every home we've bought was below the median home price for the city we were moving to (there's almost always a market for starter homes, just get cozy with your fam :p)
 

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Our primary home is just outside Washington, D.C. It is worth today 14 times more than what we paid for it 40 years ago. And it's only going to continue to rise in value. Our proximity to the Nation's Capital cannot be understated.

As Indy said, it's location, location, location. Perhaps that's why I had two real estate agents in the last month stop by and ask if I would consider selling my home as each have clients who want to purchase in our neighborhood.

Our second home is in an Atlantic Ocean beach community. It has doubled in value in 17 years. We've also received unsolicited offers to sell.

Both these homes have been terrific investments. Both homes have increased more in $$ value on an average monthly basis versus our actual mortgage payments.

That's the reality I know. And this "lib" and his Hubby were NOT wealthy when we bought our homes. Nope. We simply sacrificed to make our payments. For our future. And it paid off. Both our homes have proven to be quite good investments. ;)
 

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If the mortgage payment (which should include interest, taxes, insurance, sanitation and sewage) is less than renting comparable property, and the maintenance and repair schedule does not cause annual housing cost to rise above the cost of renting, you are already winning. Such is the case with the home in which I live. I am paying additional money to the principle to lower my final cost of the loan. The mortgage should be paid off 17 years early. The interest rate is below 4%. At that point the annual cost becomes only the taxes, insurance, sanitation and sewage, (a water management fee specific to my locality) and maintenance. This Will come out to less than half renting this house most years. THAT is the main benefit. If we have to move, we would likely rent the home, rather than sell it. We can always do another mortgage. If this house is not paid off in such an event, we will refinance to pay off the VA loan (illegal to have on a home in which the servicemember does not reside), and secure a VA loan for our new residence. These loans do not require a downpayment, and we may choose not to make one.

Liberal does not mean irresponsible, or bad with math.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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Our primary home is just outside Washington, D.C. It is worth today 14 times more than what we paid for it 40 years ago. And it's only going to continue to rise in value. Our proximity to the Nation's Capital cannot be understated.

As Indy said, it's location, location, location. Perhaps that's why I had two real estate agents in the last month stop by and ask if I would consider selling my home as each have clients who want to purchase in our neighborhood.

Our second home is in an Atlantic Ocean beach community. It has doubled in value in 17 years. We've also received unsolicited offers to sell.

Both these homes have been terrific investments. Both homes have increased more in $$ value on an average monthly basis versus our actual mortgage payments.

That's the reality I know. And this "lib" and his Hubby were NOT wealthy when we bought our homes. Nope. We simply sacrificed to make our payments. For our future. And it paid off. Both our homes have proven to be quite good investments. ;)


If you do the math in both your homes, the return is dreadful. Doubling in value in 17 years
Our primary home is just outside Washington, D.C. It is worth today 14 times more than what we paid for it 40 years ago. And it's only going to continue to rise in value. Our proximity to the Nation's Capital cannot be understated.

As Indy said, it's location, location, location. Perhaps that's why I had two real estate agents in the last month stop by and ask if I would consider selling my home as each have clients who want to purchase in our neighborhood.

Our second home is in an Atlantic Ocean beach community. It has doubled in value in 17 years. We've also received unsolicited offers to sell.

Both these homes have been terrific investments. Both homes have increased more in $$ value on an average monthly basis versus our actual mortgage payments.

That's the reality I know. And this "lib" and his Hubby were NOT wealthy when we bought our homes. Nope. We simply sacrificed to make our payments. For our future. And it paid off. Both our homes have proven to be quite good investments. ;)


Your ocean house has gone up about 3% per year. That doesn’t include any improvements you may have made.

On your original house, the S and P 500 has gone up 34 times over the same time. You had to have put in at least 2 roofs, 2 kitchens, painted it 5 times, which makes your house even worse as a strict investment.

As an investment both houses have performed dreadfully. I am sure you got enjoyment out of them but they have been true money losers.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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It can be a good investment or a bad one. It depends on the situation.

Why are you trying to make this political?

Because most mortgages are underwritten by Fannie or Freddie Mac and the Dems are looking to make home ownership a government goal. Bad, bad idea.

Republicans will make the same mistake.

And your comment is informative in this way: No one knows beforehand if what they buy is good or bad. You find out after you buy it, which can be too late.
 
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phonehome

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If you do the math in both your homes, the return is dreadful. Doubling in value in 17 years



Your ocean house has gone up about 3% per year. That doesn’t include any improvements you may have made.

On your original house, the S and P 500 has gone up 34 times over the same time. You had to have put in at least 2 roofs, 2 kitchens, painted it 5 times, which makes your house even worse as a strict investment.

As an investment both houses have performed dreadfully. I am sure you got enjoyment out of them but they have been true money losers.


We will set aside the ocean house for now

As far as the house in DC, they had to love SOMEWHERE for the last 40 years.

Maybe when it is all said and done Mr. B will make nothing

But he will have also essentially lived there for free

Had he rented as you seem to think he should have he would have had to pay rent and after 40 years what would have had to show for it other than a stack of rent receipts ?

NOTHING

He also would not have had all that money to invest in the market so it could go up 34 times either

You do not know how many times if ever he has had to replace the roof and how many times if ever he has remodeled his kitchen, how many times he has painted

I bought my house in 96, I just paid it off so now I pay nothing to live here

After 2 hurricanes Katrina and the one the year prior even though it did not leak I had lost just enough shingles that I could replace my roof which my insurance (nationwide) paid for I replaced it with a metal roof which is now over 20 years old and looks as good as the day it was put up there and I am sure will outlast me. I have not felt the need to remodel my kitchen, the stove and dish washer that came with the house are still working just fine and the fridge I replaced 2 years ago with one I bought from Lowes was on sale for less than 1000 bucks. I have brick so I have not painted the exterior and painted and not even every room only twice

In addition in the early years when almost his entire mortgage payment was interest he got to write that off and almost literally live there for free as opposed to NEVER getting to write off dollar one of any rent he paid
 

Thikn2velvet1

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We will set aside the ocean house for now

As far as the house in DC, they had to love SOMEWHERE for the last 40 years.

Maybe when it is all said and done Mr. B will make nothing

But he will have also essentially lived there for free

Had he rented as you seem to think he should have he would have had to pay rent and after 40 years what would have had to show for it other than a stack of rent receipts ?

NOTHING

He also would not have had all that money to invest in the market so it could go up 34 times either

You do not know how many times if ever he has had to replace the roof and how many times if ever he has remodeled his kitchen, how many times he has painted

I bought my house in 96, I just paid it off so now I pay nothing to live here

After 2 hurricanes Katrina and the one the year prior even though it did not leak I had lost just enough shingles that I could replace my roof which my insurance (nationwide) paid for I replaced it with a metal roof which is now over 20 years old and looks as good as the day it was put up there and I am sure will outlast me. I have not felt the need to remodel my kitchen, the stove and dish washer that came with the house are still working just fine and the fridge I replaced 2 years ago with one I bought from Lowes was on sale for less than 1000 bucks. I have brick so I have not painted the exterior and painted and not even every room only twice

In addition in the early years when almost his entire mortgage payment was interest he got to write that off and almost literally live there for free as opposed to NEVER getting to write off dollar one of any rent he paid

Cool. You live in a tired dated dump, for free.

I never said he didn’t get enjoyment out of his house. I know certainly he cannot easily spend the equity he has to increase his standard of living.

If his house cost $100000 in 1979, it is now worth $1.4 million. If he had put $100k in the Vanguard fund, he would have $3.3 million today. He could buy that house AND have $1.9 million to blow on fine whisky and trips to French Polynesia.

If he wanted to access that $1.4 million equity, he has to get a mortgage or equity line of credit, meaning he has to pay to get his own money.

He would be hit with a Cap gains tax if he liquidated part of the Vanguard.

The point is, housing is a poor investment for the average citizen. It is absolutely a good way to enforce a savings plan on people but should we be pushing people into something like that.
 

TexanStar

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Cool. You live in a tired dated dump, for free.

I never said he didn’t get enjoyment out of his house. I know certainly he cannot easily spend the equity he has to increase his standard of living.

If his house cost $100000 in 1979, it is now worth $1.4 million. If he had put $100k in the Vanguard fund, he would have $3.3 million today. He could buy that house AND have $1.9 million to blow on fine whisky and trips to French Polynesia.

If he wanted to access that $1.4 million equity, he has to get a mortgage or equity line of credit, meaning he has to pay to get his own money.

He would be hit with a Cap gains tax if he liquidated part of the Vanguard.

The point is, housing is a poor investment for the average citizen. It is absolutely a good way to enforce a savings plan on people but should we be pushing people into something like that.

Where's this hypothetical person going to live during that time? In a van down by the river?

My mortgage payments are significantly less than the amount of rent I would need to pay.

Even people who own a second home often rent them out and let the rental income help offset the mortgage and maintenance costs.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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We will set aside the ocean house for now

As far as the house in DC, they had to love SOMEWHERE for the last 40 years.

Maybe when it is all said and done Mr. B will make nothing

But he will have also essentially lived there for free

Had he rented as you seem to think he should have he would have had to pay rent and after 40 years what would have had to show for it other than a stack of rent receipts ?

NOTHING

He also would not have had all that money to invest in the market so it could go up 34 times either

You do not know how many times if ever he has had to replace the roof and how many times if ever he has remodeled his kitchen, how many times he has painted

I bought my house in 96, I just paid it off so now I pay nothing to live here

After 2 hurricanes Katrina and the one the year prior even though it did not leak I had lost just enough shingles that I could replace my roof which my insurance (nationwide) paid for I replaced it with a metal roof which is now over 20 years old and looks as good as the day it was put up there and I am sure will outlast me. I have not felt the need to remodel my kitchen, the stove and dish washer that came with the house are still working just fine and the fridge I replaced 2 years ago with one I bought from Lowes was on sale for less than 1000 bucks. I have brick so I have not painted the exterior and painted and not even every room only twice

In addition in the early years when almost his entire mortgage payment was interest he got to write that off and almost literally live there for free as opposed to NEVER getting to write off dollar one of any rent he paid

BTW, without looking you must straight living by yourself. No wife would live in a dated tired house for 23 years. I absolutely know you cannot be gay, no gay man would be caught dead in house as tired as yours must be.
 

Industrialsize

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BTW, without looking you must straight living by yourself. No wife would live in a dated tired house for 23 years. I absolutely know you cannot be gay, no gay man would be caught dead in house as tired as yours must be.
Wow, you certainly told him.......
 

TexanStar

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BTW, without looking you must straight living by yourself. No wife would live in a dated tired house for 23 years. I absolutely know you cannot be gay, no gay man would be caught dead in house as tired as yours must be.

Two forms of prejudice in one post. Nice work!
 

Thikn2velvet1

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Wow, you certainly told him.......

Dusty, you might be the dullest most sour gay man alive. It is a stereotype but it is damn accurate, gay men tend to keep their homes SHARP. I mean detailed, like in cars. If you read the “ Mansions” section of the Wall Street Journal, gay men ( and lesbians) are represented way out of proportion to their actual demographic numbers. IIRC, keen commented on a dead true factoid, to make money in real estate, find out where gay men are buying and get something there.

There is a reason there is a show called “ Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” I know you libs hate stereotypes, everyone is different, blah, blah, blah, but this one is pure true.
 

Industrialsize

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Dusty, you might be the dullest most sour gay man alive. It is a stereotype but it is damn accurate, gay men tend to keep their homes SHARP. I mean detailed, like in cars. If you read the “ Mansions” section of the Wall Street Journal, gay men ( and lesbians) are represented way out of proportion to their actual demographic numbers. IIRC, keen commented on a dead true factoid, to make money in real estate, find out where gay men are buying and get something there.

There is a reason there is a show called “ Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” I know you libs hate stereotypes, everyone is different, blah, blah, blah, but this one is pure true.
You're a sad man, the whole point of you starting this thread was to prove that you are now and will always be smarter than anyone here. Big egos need stroking. You know nothing about me and never will. I'm sure you'll be very upset by it, but this will be the last time I engage with you.
 

Thikn2velvet1

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You're a sad man, the whole point of you starting this thread was to prove that you are now and will always be smarter than anyone here. Big egos need stroking. You know nothing about me and never will. I'm sure you'll be very upset by it, but this will be the last time I engage with you.

I struck a nerve, not the first time someone has found you dour, I bet. Good riddance, put me on ignore. You are way too salty and sour.