invisibleman
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How do Mormons view Gays
- Thread starter MovingForward
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invisibleman
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I think that it is complete torture being a Mormon. You can't drink any caffeinated beverages--no Starbucks. No Coke/Pepsi. No tea. Not EVEN green tea. That is fucked up. You can't have any form of sex outside marriage. Not EVEN :wank: or :boobies: or:069: or:bukkaker EVEN possibly :3some: . That is SOOOO fuckt.
No alcohol. No smoking. If I were in a Mormon life situation...I would be sleepfucking some"dang"body. That is fucked up what they do. Truly is.
Understandable. I just told them how I felt. I am not the Mormon kind of guy. Left it at that. They (the Elders) didn't tell me that I was an abomination. They didn't do that to me. I found that out on my own doing my own research on Mormonism: Mormon.org . It is a family-based, marriage oriented heterosexual type religion. I am not the family man or the marrying type. Having the life experiences I have had so far, Mormonism (other than some of those cute Elders) doesn't appeal to me at all anyway.
invisibleman
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My father liked it. Hehehe. :smile: I could play it for those Mormons if they show up at my door again.
I can't rightly critisize anybody's religion or lifestyle if I don't really know much about it. I have been to SLC and found their headquarters to be a bit strange for my taste. I even went on the proselytizing tour. They split up the tour into two - one for families and one for singles and other non-family oriented type folks and they show you the Tabernackle, Cathedral and other church buildings and then give you the sales pitch.
Not everyone in SLC is Mormon. I think it is about 40% but some towns in rural Idaho and Utah are 99% LDS and they exert their influence with a heavy hand. It is odd that the Utah state capital complex is eclipsed by the LDS headquarters in size and grandeur however. That being said LDS must work for a vast majority of their membership. They are a very wealthy organization and their practices and existence revolve around money like all large organized religions. I'm sure their church acts as a support and great social welfare net to most of it's members. They are ostensibly very nice and helpful. I have nothing against that as a visitor. I was caught up in a snow storm in SLC and my car stalled in the middle of the road and no sooner that I could say "John Smith" some Mormons hopped out of a truck and were pushing my car to the nearest gas station.
I do know a handful of "jack" Mormons (those that have left the church or non-practicing members) so it is not like a cult where you can't leave. But most Mormons I do know have no ill will towards their church. There are probably pressures inside the church for change but I don't know all the dynamics there.
Not everyone in SLC is Mormon. I think it is about 40% but some towns in rural Idaho and Utah are 99% LDS and they exert their influence with a heavy hand. It is odd that the Utah state capital complex is eclipsed by the LDS headquarters in size and grandeur however. That being said LDS must work for a vast majority of their membership. They are a very wealthy organization and their practices and existence revolve around money like all large organized religions. I'm sure their church acts as a support and great social welfare net to most of it's members. They are ostensibly very nice and helpful. I have nothing against that as a visitor. I was caught up in a snow storm in SLC and my car stalled in the middle of the road and no sooner that I could say "John Smith" some Mormons hopped out of a truck and were pushing my car to the nearest gas station.
I do know a handful of "jack" Mormons (those that have left the church or non-practicing members) so it is not like a cult where you can't leave. But most Mormons I do know have no ill will towards their church. There are probably pressures inside the church for change but I don't know all the dynamics there.
Nor I. I can, however, criticize the proselytizing. I don't knock on their doors and try to persuade them to abandon their religion.
Salt Lake City is beautiful, and southern Utah is even better!
Proselytizing - that's how they keep money in their coffers. It is a business if anything else - expand or die. If you see it from a money perspective it all makes sense. I think Marriot Corporation is Mormon. They are very business oriented folks judging from their practices and headquarters. They are a very wealthy church indeed, it is the basis of their power - not so much their teachings. The Book of Mormon is a bit hard to swallow as truth for most thinking people.
Yes. Have you been to Zion National Park? That is exquisite.
I understand why they do it, I just don't appreciate them doing it. Their religion is no concern of mine, as long as they don't want to involve me in it.
And no, I have not been to Zion, but I spent two days in Bryce Canyon (had to camp in the Panguitch mountains, no camping in the canyon park) and it was a transcendent experience.
Right on. I have no interest in a religion that considers anyone to be an abomination for something that couldn't be controlled.
kalipygian
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And would that be the same (Apocalypse 14:3,4,5) 'hundred and forty and four thousand men which were redeemed from the earth'
'These are they which were not defiled with women . . . '
'These were redeemed from among men being the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.'
'And in their mouth was found no guile; for they were without fault before the throne of God'.
Seems like this would best fit gay men, and breeders are quite clearly disqualified. (Sorry, but that is what it says) We should call ourselves 'the firstfruits'.:biggrin1: Eternity is going to consist of a perpetual gay men's chorus.
Hmmm. Since I've already mastered the tough stuff, I must be halfway there already.
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It was mentioned earlier about the status of the Mormon church in traditinal Christianity.
The Mormon beliefs about Jesus are different than traditional Christianity. The United Methodist Church accepts baptisms and professions of faith from all traditional churches. The United Methodist Church does not recognize a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness baptism. People who join the United Methodist Church from either of these two religious groups must be baptised again. United Methoidst Church recognizes all other baptisms.
The point of explaining this is to state that while Mormons say they are part of Christianity. Most of traditional Christianity does not accept Mormonism as being Christian instead viewing it as another religion just like Hindu or Islam.
The Mormon beliefs about Jesus are different than traditional Christianity. The United Methodist Church accepts baptisms and professions of faith from all traditional churches. The United Methodist Church does not recognize a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness baptism. People who join the United Methodist Church from either of these two religious groups must be baptised again. United Methoidst Church recognizes all other baptisms.
The point of explaining this is to state that while Mormons say they are part of Christianity. Most of traditional Christianity does not accept Mormonism as being Christian instead viewing it as another religion just like Hindu or Islam.
fortiesfun
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I am far from an unbiased source, since I was raised in one of those 80%+ Mormon small towns out West (and am still working through the residual effects), but PBS's Frontline recently did a two night series that manages to give a fairly balanced view of the church, its teachings and its history. (The link gets you to the internet versions for your viewing pleasure.)
In the second night, when they tackled some of the tougher issues, they boiled it all down to this: Mormonism is extremely dedicated to the idea of the nuclear family. If you fall easily within that traditional model they can be tremendously empowering and supportive.
If you fall outside it, as do not just gay men but also much more morally neutral (from their point of view) creatures as women who don't want to get married or even are married and just don't want to have children, it can be very, very hard on you simply because you fall outside the values of the community.
It is often hard to correlate any church's practices to its beliefs, since (for example) being family friendly can mean everything from welcoming small children to the service to condemning the use of birth control. Mormons do condemn gays as persons having non-procreative sex outside of marriage. Interestingly, however, they equally frown upon anyone who is in that position. In this way I find them less hypocritical than most fundamentalist religions whose policies would seem to say the same thing, but who have little problem with hetero fucking around, divorce, and abandonment of wives and children but feel the need to preach against homosexuality virtually every Sunday. Mormon families can be close, and therefore supportive, of their gay children albeit in a rather condescending way of offering love to a sinner.
Sorry if this rambled a bit, but one final thought for the OP. My best guess is that the young man you are playing basketball with already strongly suspects you are gay. Young men tortured over their sexuality make particularly good conversion targets. (Not saying you are tortured, but if he thinks there is a chance you are his training is to go after you.)
In the second night, when they tackled some of the tougher issues, they boiled it all down to this: Mormonism is extremely dedicated to the idea of the nuclear family. If you fall easily within that traditional model they can be tremendously empowering and supportive.
If you fall outside it, as do not just gay men but also much more morally neutral (from their point of view) creatures as women who don't want to get married or even are married and just don't want to have children, it can be very, very hard on you simply because you fall outside the values of the community.
It is often hard to correlate any church's practices to its beliefs, since (for example) being family friendly can mean everything from welcoming small children to the service to condemning the use of birth control. Mormons do condemn gays as persons having non-procreative sex outside of marriage. Interestingly, however, they equally frown upon anyone who is in that position. In this way I find them less hypocritical than most fundamentalist religions whose policies would seem to say the same thing, but who have little problem with hetero fucking around, divorce, and abandonment of wives and children but feel the need to preach against homosexuality virtually every Sunday. Mormon families can be close, and therefore supportive, of their gay children albeit in a rather condescending way of offering love to a sinner.
Sorry if this rambled a bit, but one final thought for the OP. My best guess is that the young man you are playing basketball with already strongly suspects you are gay. Young men tortured over their sexuality make particularly good conversion targets. (Not saying you are tortured, but if he thinks there is a chance you are his training is to go after you.)
SLC is located in a very beautiful area but the city itself is more or less soulless. I can't imagine living in such a large city with a downtown that is so bland.
oralhijinks
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There was some discussion of the business aspects of the LDS church. They were on the cover of time magazine and listed as a fortune 500 company. That's a lot of money. There are some inconsistencies however that create hypocrisy in the church. The church buys things (mainly investments). They do not spend money to help people in any manner close to their income. In salt lake city the LDS church does not provide any support for the homeless. They do, however, contract the Catholic church to combat the problem. The sense in the church is: out of sight out of mind. Basically keep the homeless away from downtown and we're good. They operate Deseret Industries which is like goodwill. They don't spend money on the service since all products are donated by members. They will refuse to help their own members if there is any indication of a religious transgression. A divorce, for example, if initiated by the wife will pretty much leave her out in the cold from a church perspective. Women in the church are second class citizens.
Here's a good example: The goal of every good mormon couple is to be married in the temple. They are given secret names to use in the afterlife to be able to contact each other since they are still married in the afterlife. But it is the decision of the man to call for his wife or not in the afterlife. The wife has no say in the matter.
The business of the church is business. There was a time when caffeinated beverages were outlawed. Well apparently, God spoke to Hinkley (the president of the church) and issued a revelation. Cold caffeinated beverages were ok, but not hot such as tea or coffee. This coincided with the purchase of the coca cola bottling plant in Draper UT. How convenient that God thought it was OK to change doctrine to accomodate coca cola. Give me a break!
I lived there for 10 years. I loved the mountains, the desert, and the close proximity to Las Vegas but the culture drove me absolutely nuts.
Here's a good example: The goal of every good mormon couple is to be married in the temple. They are given secret names to use in the afterlife to be able to contact each other since they are still married in the afterlife. But it is the decision of the man to call for his wife or not in the afterlife. The wife has no say in the matter.
The business of the church is business. There was a time when caffeinated beverages were outlawed. Well apparently, God spoke to Hinkley (the president of the church) and issued a revelation. Cold caffeinated beverages were ok, but not hot such as tea or coffee. This coincided with the purchase of the coca cola bottling plant in Draper UT. How convenient that God thought it was OK to change doctrine to accomodate coca cola. Give me a break!
I lived there for 10 years. I loved the mountains, the desert, and the close proximity to Las Vegas but the culture drove me absolutely nuts.
Don't many of them have more than one wife and usually they are much younger?
I don't know much about their religion but I did make the mistake of calling a toll-free number to receive a free DVD with the late James Stewart.
A few days after I received it, I was called from some of the members in a town closest to me, wanting to come over and talk. I started making excuses that I was going out of town but they kept calling. I finally had to tell them that I really wasn't interested and hung up.
BTW, the DVD was very good and also included Christmas music performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I'd just as soon now to have paid something for it to avoid all the calling.
I don't know much about their religion but I did make the mistake of calling a toll-free number to receive a free DVD with the late James Stewart.
A few days after I received it, I was called from some of the members in a town closest to me, wanting to come over and talk. I started making excuses that I was going out of town but they kept calling. I finally had to tell them that I really wasn't interested and hung up.
BTW, the DVD was very good and also included Christmas music performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I'd just as soon now to have paid something for it to avoid all the calling.
B_RedDude
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Back to the original topic.
Mormons are VEHEMENTLY anti-gay. If they suspect a gay person in their midst, much like the Church of Scientology, the person is subjected to all kinds of counseling and "deprogramming" to become a wholesome straight person again. They can be torturous in their methods. If the child continues along the lines of having a gay life, they will not only be excommunicated, they will likely be disowned by the family.
Supposedly, they are not against homosexuality, per se. But, against homosexual acts.
I have known friends who are from Mormon households... a very sad, lonely existence, as the family will treat them as though they don't exist.
Although the life they lead can be quite refreshing and I find the Book of Mormon to be quite interesting, I will never abide a people who so ernestly condemn another individual.
Mormons are VEHEMENTLY anti-gay. If they suspect a gay person in their midst, much like the Church of Scientology, the person is subjected to all kinds of counseling and "deprogramming" to become a wholesome straight person again. They can be torturous in their methods. If the child continues along the lines of having a gay life, they will not only be excommunicated, they will likely be disowned by the family.
Supposedly, they are not against homosexuality, per se. But, against homosexual acts.
I have known friends who are from Mormon households... a very sad, lonely existence, as the family will treat them as though they don't exist.
Although the life they lead can be quite refreshing and I find the Book of Mormon to be quite interesting, I will never abide a people who so ernestly condemn another individual.
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