How does one git one of them fancy titles in Britain - Sir, Lord, Lady, Earl?
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D_Gunther Snotpole
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goodwood
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Knights (the Sirs) and Dames and baronets are not peers. Getting knighted does not make you Lord or Lady anything. Only those of the rank of baron or higher are peers though baronages do not confer a title of peerage. The ranking (from lowest to highest):
Baron and Baroness
Viscount and Vicountess
Earl and Countess
Marquess and Marchioness
Duke and Duchess
Royal Duke and Royal Duchess
Prince and Princess
King and Queen
Now there are even subranks all within this. Everyone is ranked by the type of title, if it is a title of England, Scotland, Ireland, or of the United Kingdom, date it was conferred, and if there is special remainder to allow for daughters to carry the title when no sons are left (otherwise the title goes extinct). Rules about how children are titled are included as well.
It's ridiculously confusing.
The queen can, and has, create anyone anything she likes on her own prerogative and this she has done. She can also strip titles at will though this usually only happens when someone is convicted of a serious crime or wages war against the UK (Hirohito was stripped of his titles at the start of WWII but then later they were reinstated). She can create peers by writ of summons to parliament or by letters patent.
Today they have what are called, "life peerages," which means that while you get a title, your children do not inherit it. It's a one-time, one person deal. Former prime ministers are usually given life peerages so they can sit in Lords. To get a real hereditary peerage requires a great deal of work. You'd better be a war hero or someone the queen likes. Only five hereditary peerages have been created since 1964.
Well said Jason! Very thorough and accurate!
Baron and Baroness
Viscount and Vicountess
Earl and Countess
Marquess and Marchioness
Duke and Duchess
Royal Duke and Royal Duchess
Prince and Princess
King and Queen
Now there are even subranks all within this. Everyone is ranked by the type of title, if it is a title of England, Scotland, Ireland, or of the United Kingdom, date it was conferred, and if there is special remainder to allow for daughters to carry the title when no sons are left (otherwise the title goes extinct). Rules about how children are titled are included as well.
It's ridiculously confusing.
The queen can, and has, create anyone anything she likes on her own prerogative and this she has done. She can also strip titles at will though this usually only happens when someone is convicted of a serious crime or wages war against the UK (Hirohito was stripped of his titles at the start of WWII but then later they were reinstated). She can create peers by writ of summons to parliament or by letters patent.
Today they have what are called, "life peerages," which means that while you get a title, your children do not inherit it. It's a one-time, one person deal. Former prime ministers are usually given life peerages so they can sit in Lords. To get a real hereditary peerage requires a great deal of work. You'd better be a war hero or someone the queen likes. Only five hereditary peerages have been created since 1964.
Well said Jason! Very thorough and accurate!
DaveyR
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Goes to show, you shouldn't argue with a queen.
No, it means I shouldn't argue with someone smarter than I am. :smile:
Why does the image of Sebastian running up that hill in "Suddenly Last Summer " keep popping into my head when I read your post Rubi?
Snake bite??
This we've got to hear...
Being the only lily white ass in the entire city, it seemed I was easy target to be lasso'ed by a snake charmer in the chaos they call Djena el Fna. Needless to say I wasn't charming enough for the snake.
So once again you proved less charming than you thought?
Well, charmless as I might be I was lucky to catch some snakes there, incredibly exquisite snakes indeed, and the biting was enjoyable.
D_Gunther Snotpole
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No, you shouldn't, jace ... but I haven't seen that happen yet.
Because Sebastian had blown the lottery too?
I can only assume, earl, that your exquisite taste has tipped you irretrievably into euphemism.
Way to go, bro.:tongue:
A small correction to one of the previous posts.
If a titled woman marries a commoner she retains her title but her husband usually gets nothing. ie Princesses Margaret and Anne
When you meet a prince/princess or above, the first time you speak to him/her you call him/her "Your Majesty" or "Your Royal Highness" (not sure which) after that its either 'Sir' or 'Ma'am'
There are a number of "Ladies", "Lords" and an "Earl" or two in my English ancestry. I would have preferred the money or the house . Instead we got nothing. I mentioned in an earlier thread, one of my great, great grandfathers was born on the wrong side of the blanket. Polite term for saying he was a bastard.
One of my relatives was given the title of Lord for his work to abolish slavery in The British empire (Lord Buxton). Another, Lady Elizabeth Frye worked to improve conditions in English jails for women. Her brother Somethingorother Guerny did the same for men. I don't know if he got a title. Anyone in the north east of the US that knows Earlham College, he named it after his home in Norfolk.
A great grand aunt, Lady Bishop, very Victorian, had a wonderful saying I loved. "Although all Ladies are women not all women are Ladies". I don't think she originated it. She used to use it when ever one of my female relatives (sister included) behaved in an inappropriate manner. She made my sister walk around with books on her head to teach her to stand straight and keep her head held high. Very funny when we were kids.
If a titled woman marries a commoner she retains her title but her husband usually gets nothing. ie Princesses Margaret and Anne
When you meet a prince/princess or above, the first time you speak to him/her you call him/her "Your Majesty" or "Your Royal Highness" (not sure which) after that its either 'Sir' or 'Ma'am'
There are a number of "Ladies", "Lords" and an "Earl" or two in my English ancestry. I would have preferred the money or the house . Instead we got nothing. I mentioned in an earlier thread, one of my great, great grandfathers was born on the wrong side of the blanket. Polite term for saying he was a bastard.
One of my relatives was given the title of Lord for his work to abolish slavery in The British empire (Lord Buxton). Another, Lady Elizabeth Frye worked to improve conditions in English jails for women. Her brother Somethingorother Guerny did the same for men. I don't know if he got a title. Anyone in the north east of the US that knows Earlham College, he named it after his home in Norfolk.
A great grand aunt, Lady Bishop, very Victorian, had a wonderful saying I loved. "Although all Ladies are women not all women are Ladies". I don't think she originated it. She used to use it when ever one of my female relatives (sister included) behaved in an inappropriate manner. She made my sister walk around with books on her head to teach her to stand straight and keep her head held high. Very funny when we were kids.
goodwood
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Shit!
Dear God, not on the dining room table again. No, no, you stay there, let me get the shop vac and the Hefty bags.
Uh, a poisonous snake bit you on the neck and you survived??
Because Sebastian had blown the lottery too?
Oh he blew alright, just not the lottery. More like the orphanage.
Only the monarch is honored as, "Your Majesty."
A prince or princess of royal blood or marriage is addressed as, "Your Royal Highness."
A prince or princess not of royal blood or marriage is addressed as, "Your Highness."
When a prince or monarch or peer also has multiple other titles, the honorific used is always that of the highest rank. Therefore, His Royal Highness the Duke of York is always referred to as, "Your Royal Highness," not, "Your Grace."
Thereafter, as you stated, it is, "ma'am" or "sir."
Now.
If you really want to become a lord or lady you can.
Separate from titles of peerage, you can attain a feudal title by purchasing a landed barony. A true barony, and pay attention here, doesn't necessarily confer land, but the rights to the land. Should someone be selling and you purchasing a true baronial manor, you have the legal right to be, "Earl Logjam of Rocky Wastes, Baron Rocky Wastes." If you're feeling full of yourself, you may also use the honorific, "Much Honoured." Usually baronies come with a musty old house and some particular rights to the area that the legal barony incorporates. That could mean you have rights of way, right to permit markets, right of tolls, and mineral rights. Or you may simply have the right to three geese and ten bushels of rich manure from the townspeople at Christmas or the right to slay dragons in the town square without permit. Privileges, if any, vary widely. You even have the right to hold a baronial court complete with the issuing of fines and yes you can hire a constable to enforce your rights. Scottish baronies were of much interest during the North Sea oil boom because baronies which included shoreline had mineral rights up to Scotland's territorial waters. Scottish baronies also entitle you to a gold helm, robes, unique flags, and two, yes TWO, pipers displaying your armorial banner when you feel like being piped at (just be aware that you have to foot the bill for it all).
Feudal barons are different from barons who are peers, or as they are called in Scotland, Barons of Parliament. Both get called Lord and Lady however you are NOT of the same rank. Guess which one outranks the other? You can, however, take some pride in that your feudal barony is likely far older than the title of most all peers.
Baronies are not cheap, frequently costing upwards of ￡10,000 and sometimes much higher if the baronies have a good income. Some do! Some will make you quite well-off because of the rights they confer however those baronies are the ones people don't sell. There are also plenty of scams selling fake titles and fake baronies. In the UK, anybody who owns land can style themselves a baron but it won't be a true barony unless a person also holds a royal warrant conferring baronial privileges. Acquiring a true barony requires a solicitor who knows what he or she is doing and a fat wallet, but it can be done.
If you really want to rack-up the brownie points buy one for your sister for Christmas.
I think it was a boa. But I wasn't sure with it wrapped around my head as I ran around frantic, chicken soon to loose it's head. It bit me as the charmer pulled it off my head. Fun.
I would have paid good money to see that. Schadenfreude's a bitch:biggrin1:.
Boas can have nasty temperaments. Pythons are, on the whole, much more docile.
dong20
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I remember this was all the rage a few years back when people would do this to extort money (and other things) out of estate tenants, enforce ancient restrictions on land use and generally be an obnoxious twerp.
The Land Registration Act (2003) still considers Manorial rights overriding interests, although being incoporeal hereditments they are incapable of substantive registration. However, such rights can no longer be created (since 1925) and they will lose their status as overriding interests in 2013 and must thereafter be mentioned on the register to be binding. That can be done at any time but requires evidence of their existence to be presented which may be tricky. So I suggest petty despots (real and purchased) enjoy them while you can.
For those with titular aspirations:
Royal Titles: Become a Lord or Lady today.
Become a Lord and Lady of the Glen - Become a Laird or Lady - Buy Title - Buy TitlesLord and Lady of the Glen - Become a Laird or Lady - Buy Title - Buy Titles
English Titles - Buy your Nobility online. Noble titles for sale - Lord, Lady, Sir, Duke, Duchess and more
and '00s more.
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It is true that you can buy a feudal title (say Lord of the Manor of wherever). Where these titles are linked with real rights (ie lots of land) they do still mean something, but where the title is just an empty title it becomes pretty much meaningless.
There have recently been suggestions that you can become a Lord by giving lots of money to the Labour Party. Tony Blair and other prominent figures were interviewed by the police over this, but no case went to court, so we must assume that giving lots of money to the Labour Party and being nominated by Tony Blair as a Lord are just coincidences.
These purchase routes aside, the vast majority of British titles reflect something far more substantial.
You can get a life peerage as recognition for an achievement, and there are new life peers created every year. In theory hereditaries can still be created, but Mrs Thatcher was the last prime minister to recommend one of these.
In Scotland the title laird is subject to different laws to the English lord. Laird is effectively a courtesy title given by people to the local landlord - it is not in itself hereditary (though there are some laird titles attached to land) and gives no particular rights. In England "squire" is used in a similar way, and esquire (esq) is a formal, old-fashioned but still extant form of address.
In Britain today titles do still matter. They give political power to those who sit in the House of Lords. Many of them reflect a network of money and educational privledge, and this is where there value lies. It is not being a Lord that matters, but being part of the elite that means you will have a good sprinkling of titles in your family. David Cameron (leader of the opposition) has no title but is related to most of the titled families of Britain. From his days at Eton and Oxford he knows scions of most titled families. Assuming he wins the next election (and on present polls that looks likely) we will once again have a member of the traditional ruling class governing Britain - which has been the norm in Britain just about for ever, though recently departed from.
Of course the US has its own hereditary system - as two generations of the Bush family as presidents. You might as well call Bush senior "Prince of Texas". At least we are open about it in the UK.
There have recently been suggestions that you can become a Lord by giving lots of money to the Labour Party. Tony Blair and other prominent figures were interviewed by the police over this, but no case went to court, so we must assume that giving lots of money to the Labour Party and being nominated by Tony Blair as a Lord are just coincidences.
These purchase routes aside, the vast majority of British titles reflect something far more substantial.
You can get a life peerage as recognition for an achievement, and there are new life peers created every year. In theory hereditaries can still be created, but Mrs Thatcher was the last prime minister to recommend one of these.
In Scotland the title laird is subject to different laws to the English lord. Laird is effectively a courtesy title given by people to the local landlord - it is not in itself hereditary (though there are some laird titles attached to land) and gives no particular rights. In England "squire" is used in a similar way, and esquire (esq) is a formal, old-fashioned but still extant form of address.
In Britain today titles do still matter. They give political power to those who sit in the House of Lords. Many of them reflect a network of money and educational privledge, and this is where there value lies. It is not being a Lord that matters, but being part of the elite that means you will have a good sprinkling of titles in your family. David Cameron (leader of the opposition) has no title but is related to most of the titled families of Britain. From his days at Eton and Oxford he knows scions of most titled families. Assuming he wins the next election (and on present polls that looks likely) we will once again have a member of the traditional ruling class governing Britain - which has been the norm in Britain just about for ever, though recently departed from.
Of course the US has its own hereditary system - as two generations of the Bush family as presidents. You might as well call Bush senior "Prince of Texas". At least we are open about it in the UK.
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