how many men here are feminists???

buffaloboy

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If only they really were outdated stereotypes.

Here is a feminist article I stumbled across yesterday, written earlier this year. It ends by saying : -

"My own personal vision is that women will cure the sickness that ails men and that men will stay around, hunkered in their man-caves playing the ukelele, leaving us in peace at last. As to what that cure may be, my best bet is that what’s wrong with men is that their androgens need genetic modification."

In other words, genetically rid the world of all men.

Radical Feminism Enters the 21st Century | Radfem Hub

Then look at the comments section. One responder says : -

"Women need to stop raising male children. Women who raise male children are digging the graves of other females. Nobody wants to bite that bullet (except lesbian separatists) but it must be done."

And other posters agree with her!

Billigerent man-hating is still very much alive and well in modern feminism, despite what some claim. All that stuff didn't go away in the 70s, and it has found a new voice, via the internet.

Although I believe in gender equality, and take it as a given that nobody should be descrinimated against because of their gender, I would still never call myself a feminist, because I do not in any way want to be associated with the hatred that some feminist promote, and others turn a blind eye to.

I actually laughed out loud at your post because, well, it's laughable! There's always going to be extremists, that's a fact of life. Some men kill women, or beat them to a bloody pulp - does that stop you from calling yourself a man?
 

aninnymouse

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You CANNOT equate what one group of radical feminists have to say with the entire feminist movement.

That's like judging the entire Christian religion based on what rabid Jesus Freaks like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have to say.

In any movement, you're going to get radical, reactionary, militant, and foolish factions.

There are many fields and movements within feminism. Some of them are quite valid, and have a lot of worthwhile things to say. Some of them, IMO, are full of absolute drivel. The key is to educate yourself, find the theory that resonates with YOU, and discard the rest.

Various Fields Within Feminism

/I don't deny that there is the Bra burning, lesbian communism element/movement in feminism, but that is NOT the totality of feminism.

//educate yourself.
 

B_quiet_man

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You CANNOT equate what one group of radical feminists have to say with the entire feminist movement. educate yourself.

I'm very well educated regarding feminism. That's why I don't call myself a feminist.

The original 2nd wave Feminists were very brazen about their hatred of men. It's only in more recent times that this flavour has become less at the fore-front of the movement. However, the core-members still very much advocate the hatred and demonization of men.

Feminists have lied an contorted informtation about Domestic Violence in order to demonize men in the eyes of society, and further their ideological cause. See the video below to educate yourself : -

Christina Hoff Sommers on Violence Against Women - YouTube

I can still state that I am in favour of gender equality, without being a feminist. Why then, the need to call myself a feminist, and be put in a group with a bunch of man hating militants? I don't want to be associated with that movement.
 

Phil Ayesho

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I don't think it's necessarily about missed opportunity and lack of treatment, though.



Read the whole article in Time here

Depending on lifestyle, some women are showing declining longevity.
The women who are dying younger are those who have chosen to pursue careers.

basically, women who chose to take advantage of the "benefits" that used to be reserved for men, are, like men, dying off younger of stress related illnesses.

This essentially proves that women have traditionally lived longer because being the stay at home mom is not nearly as stressful or wearing as being a primary earner.


While I have always championed equal treatment for everyone... I do not believe that women and men are the same. Each has evolved to be specifically optimized for different things.

Women, for example, can keep track of far more things at once than men...the kind of skill that would make them gifted diagnosticians...
while men are far better at the kind of singular focus that makes for brilliant engineering.

Male executives are most effective when they have female secretaries whose job it is to keep track of all the projects and make sure the executive has the most pertinent one in front of him at any time.
Whereas female executives seem to operate best with a group of male underlings, each of whom will take one project to focus on exclusively, while the female executive manages the efforts of all of them.


But, just the same... the feminists copped the attitude than men were "denying" women access to some great and wonderful world full of excitement and fun.

In fact, a career is a killer. It is not 'good old boys' it is massively antlered Elk, slamming into each other in a field, trying to determine who gets to mate.
It is relentless competition, fear for your job, ass kissing and politicking, enemies and allies...
And doing it well means letting everything else of value in life slide.

Now that women have more equality... they are beginning to learn that its not all that fun, after all.

And I find that many women end up making other choices than the career, if they have the opportunity.

Even today. Women earn an average of 73 cents to each dollar a man earns, not because they are not treated equally, but because analysis by personnel departments shows that women are that much more likely to interrupt their careers, quit, or refuse promotions that will make more demands on their families.

There is a big difference between Equality, and Equal Treatment.
Demanding the same money for the same work SOUNDS fair... but I don't see female bartenders and waitresses willing to split the difference between their tips and those made by their male colleagues.
( men tip women higher than they do men- and it has nothing to do with service )

When women demanded in a class action suit that dry cleaners charge the same for a woman's blouse as they do for a man's shirt- they are ignoring the proven fact that it costs dry cleaners more to clean women's clothing because women are far more demanding about their clothing. And the result was that dry cleaners simply charged men MORE... not women less... so the average dry cleaning cost for a Couple went UP.

Thanks, gals... great way to make things "equal"... to less money in your pocket.

Women are women and men are men.
Women will always pay less for dining, drinking, and driving over the speed limit.

And, by and large, men are okay with that apparent inequity... its created by our evolved drive to care for you, impress you, pursue you.

I think women could become a little more relaxed about the other minor inequities twixt the sexes, simply by taking the long view and realizing that it all works out in the end, pretty much in their favor.

Sure, women will earn $0.73 to each $1... but most women exercise control over spending $1.25 of the total a couple brings in.

And when I am out in the world, in the middle of the day... what do I see behind the wheel of 4 out of 5 cars.... who's not at a job and has the leisure to be out shopping?

women.

For women in the rest of the world, the Ugliest of ugly Americans are the women who complain about not having it good enough.
 

LuciferChild

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Why would someone not believe in gender equality?

because people are tired of watching and witness the opposite everyday in their routine....its very pretty and beautiful talking about equality, that everyone should have the same rights and treatments bla bla bla but that doesnt go beyond of just speaking about it.

Dont forget about gays and lesbians equalities too
 
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L_egit

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saying man hating is part of feminism is like saying that blowing up abortion clinics is part of christianity.

people who label all members of a group with the behaviour nutcase few...

and thatcher? being a woman does not automatically make her a feminist icon. pardon me if i judge her on her policies, same as any other politician, instead of just giving her browny points for having tits.

I can only offer my personal ancedotes, but Domination theory is still taught as a fundamental backbone to feminist thought in law, and it is a very overtly anti-male doctrine.

This notion that feminism is equalism isn't quite true. Feminism aspires to be equalism, but the content of this thread should be proof that not everyone believes that it has hit the nail on the head.

For me, personally, I sit very far to the left on many social matters, but I prefer to subscribe to the label of progressive for a number of reasons. The largest being that those in society who are not given a fair shake should not be segmented into their respective minority groups and be given multiple identities stemming out of those groups, because in doing so there's a fragmentation of empathy and a self contradictory schizophrenia created when two 'selfs' fall into conflict.

I basically ascribe to Kropotkin over Hegel, not for analytic purposes, but for methodological ones.

The empirical data on the matter seems to indicate that progressive movements towards equal rights have done better than narrow identity based movements because identity based movements create counter-identities which fight back, whereas progressive movements make their gains based upon the notion of social advancement for all. There are, however, limits to both of these techniques, but I've spoken enough on the matter.

Either way, interesting topic.
 

AlphaMale

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Just to be clear, the connotative meaning of the word "feminist" is negative and means "a female chauvinist".

I've actually never heard the term used by anyone to mean anything but a "female chauvinist". Granted, I wasn't around in the 70s.

I realize the denotative meaning is different and positive. However, since the connotative meaning is so widely used I think that would explain my and other users confusion over the thread title. :wink:
 
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Willifred

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If only they really were outdated stereotypes.

Here is a feminist article I stumbled across yesterday, written earlier this year. It ends by saying : -

"My own personal vision is that women will cure the sickness that ails men and that men will stay around, hunkered in their man-caves playing the ukelele, leaving us in peace at last. As to what that cure may be, my best bet is that what’s wrong with men is that their androgens need genetic modification."

In other words, genetically rid the world of all men.

Radical Feminism Enters the 21st Century | Radfem Hub

Then look at the comments section. One responder says : -

"Women need to stop raising male children. Women who raise male children are digging the graves of other females. Nobody wants to bite that bullet (except lesbian separatists) but it must be done."

And other posters agree with her!

Billigerent man-hating is still very much alive and well in modern feminism, despite what some claim. All that stuff didn't go away in the 70s, and it has found a new voice, via the internet.

Although I believe in gender equality, and take it as a given that nobody should be descrinimated against because of their gender, I would still never call myself a feminist, because I do not in any way want to be associated with the hatred that some feminist promote, and others turn a blind eye to.

That's not man hating as such, that's finding something online to make a certain point with. Everyone can do that.

It has little to do with real feminism at all (if anything).
 

Willifred

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because people are tired of watching and witness the opposite everyday in their routine....its very pretty and beautiful talking about equality, that everyone should have the same rights and treatments bla bla bla but that doesnt go beyond of just speaking about it.

Dont forget about gays and lesbians equalities too

I don't understand what point you're making.
 

dude_007

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Just to be clear, the connotative meaning of the word "feminist" is negative and means "a female chauvinist".

I've actually never heard the term used by anyone to mean anything but a "female chauvinist". Granted, I wasn't around in the 70s.

I realize the denotative meaning is different and positive. However, since the connotative meaning is so widely used I think that would explain my and other users confusion over the thread title. :wink:

Weird. I have never associated the meaning of the word feminist with a female chauvinist. I have always understood a feminist to be one who supports feminism.

And I am for sure a male feminist. The women's movement has come a long way (in the West, at least) but there is still devaluation of women and women's work.

Just take a profession that is mostly women: nursing. Nurses have traditionally been subservient to doctors and basically get no respect and have little power. Nurses are the hardest working people in the hospital. Nursing is a tough job, and one that is still today very under-appreciated. Nurses have just as much clinical knowledge as doctors, just a different focus. Yet, because of society's devaluation of women's work, they are the jello-fetchers and the person to whom patients complain.
 
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dude_007

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^ agreed.

And if you think feminism is about man-haters, that is a patriarchial stereotype and you would benefit from a course on the history of gender and power.
 

B_Bjen2848

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I hate calling the women 'bitches' but the 'bitches' love it

nice drake reference lol

i wouldn't call myself a feminist because ever since i stepped onto my campus everyone who calls themselves a feminist had a few loose screws and were usually the type of person who was only a feminist when it benefited them (in a womens studies class for example) yet when it came to pay $5 to get into a party they were very quick to pull the "but im a girl, i shouldn't pay!" card (all while tightening their wonder bra to make their boobs stick out more to look hotter)

i do believe in equal opportunity for all, and i honestly believe society is pretty much even now

and anyone who says men and women are the same are just ignorant

yeah women might make a little bit less money on average, but you have to factor everything in

feminism was needed in the 60's and 70's because women were treated like shit, they had hardly any rights and were treated like second rate citizens and that is never right for any group of people, but now a days they just seem like bitter people who haven't gotten laid in a long time so they blame all their problems on men

once women start paying for dates, stop taking advantage of the divorce system and actually care about gender equality, not trying to get over on men, then i'll take feminists seriously again
 

B_debonair87

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i believe in equality for all but I will say that women are irrational and like to pick and choose when to be equal.........

and feminism is such a waste of time because all women secretly hate each other
 

B_quiet_man

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"I will believe that feminists want equality, not when I see the first woman president, but when I see the first woman garbage collector."

A quote I saw somewhere.

It raises the point that there are many instances where males are distinctly less "equal" than women in society, but feminists generally show no desire or interest in addressing imbalances which negatively effect men, rather than women. In many cases, they claim no such imbalances even exist. This is one of the reasons I say that feminism is NOT synonymous with equality.
 

L_egit

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"I will believe that feminists want equality, not when I see the first woman president, but when I see the first woman garbage collector."

A quote I saw somewhere.

It raises the point that there are many instances where males are distinctly less "equal" than women in society, but feminists generally show no desire or interest in addressing imbalances which negatively effect men, rather than women. In many cases, they claim no such imbalances even exist. This is one of the reasons I say that feminism is NOT synonymous with equality.

The term for this is female privilege. There are feminists who argue against it, but it is one of the reasons why people have begun to adopt alternate labels for their views on gender and sexuality. That said there are very serious feminist scholars who adopt the label feminist who are very adamant that they wish to see the downfall of female AND male privilege. I think they have a very admirably intellectual consistency.

I don't think feminism implies an acceptance of female privilege, but there is a substantial amount of feminist literature that addresses it. I recall a the best counter-argument about feminism's position with respect to Islam being critiqued by a feminist on the ground that the author's privilege as a white woman had led to her feeling comfortable imposing a belief and power structure on others.

There are reasons for that embedded in what type of movement feminism is, and why it needed to be the type of movement it is (revolutionary, gender power dynamics respectively), so do your best to be understanding.