How much does the bailout weigh?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mindseye, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. mindseye

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    A science-geeky observation, and I'll spare the political commentary:

    A dollar bill (or, any US bill regardless of denomination) weighs one gram (source). The largest denomination bill currently in production is the $100 note.

    7 billion $100 notes would be required to amount to 700 billion dollars.

    7 billion grams of cash = 15.4 million pounds. Four space shuttles' weight in hundred dollar bills.
     
  2. nicenycdick

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,825
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think it weighs more than that...'cause it's all gonna be on MY BACK!!!
     
  3. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    it'll all be in electrons...

    How much does it weigh as DATA?
     
  4. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Actually, with all the pork on this thing, it probably weighs closer to a ton.
     
  5. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    Pork? Are you implying that the "bi-partisan" bail out to save 'Mericuh from 8 years of the George W. Bush School of Economic Catastrophe is not kosher? Oy veys mir!
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Kinda. But its the Franklin Raines Corruption at Fannie Mae Fine bi-partison bill.
     
  7. transformer_99

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    The bailout will become a wire transfer, a few keystrokes and it's done. Nobody will actually see any money, just like the tax rebates and economic stimulus package. I logged into my account on the internet and there it was, and the Federal Government didn't even send a confirmation email for it to waste bandwidth. This website will update almost instantaneously:

    U.S. National Debt Clock
     
  8. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yeah- keep it up... It had NOTHING to do with 10 years of republican control of congress... ten years they could have Killed ANY bill they chose- six years they could have passed ANY regulation they chose.


    Bush DEREGULATED lending, energy trading , and financial instruments in 2001.

    Bush Appointed the people who were SUPPOSED to see this coming.

    And Bush FAILED to do anything at all about Fannie or Freddie.


    The bad LOANS did NOT originate with Fannie and Freddie- they BOUGHT those loans from the loan originators who INVENTED these new "products".

    It was the loan origination industry that BUSH deregulated.


    A DECADE of POWER is a DECADE of RESPONSIBILITY.

    The financial disaster is just ONE of a whole LIST of spectacular failures and illegal actions from the republican party.

    From Ignoring Bin Laden to focus attention ion a cum stain- to ignoring terrorism entirely until 9/11...
    AND then sitting is a children's classroom looking stupid for 17 full minutes...

    From the Patriot act- to treason.... from Cheny taking a 35 million dollar stock bribe to Cheney ensuring 20 BILLION in no bid contracts to the company in which he held stock.

    From invading the WRONG country to NOT capturing or killing Bin Laden, to the bullshit creation of Homeland Defense, the largest NEW bureaucracy in Washington since welfare, as nothing but a means to FUNNEL public money to his corporate friends...
    From the Gutting of FEMA's effectiveness and hiring unqualified dipshits to head critical agencies, to the passage of laws DIVERTING FEMA funds away from the residents of New Orleans to the company Cheney owns stock in...


    From Lowering taxes on the people who can AFFROD taxation, to DOUBLING spending, to BORROWING money to fund tax cuts...

    The past ten years have been an ORGY of republican fuck ups, graft and idiocy.

    The most MASSIVE transfer of public funds into private hands world history.


    And, buddy, NONE of that money went to you.


    Republicans CAN NOT EVADE responsibility.

    YOU HAVE FAILED- you had 10 years to make shit work, and have had the precisely opposite effect in EVERYTHING except stealing money.

    What the fuck does it take to get you face painting Rubes to REALIZE you have been CONNED...

    YOU didn't do this-
    The SHITHEADS you keep ROOTING FOR did this.

    At what point will you STOP excusing THEIR illegal actions?


    They hold the reins of power... and they IGNORE the law.
    Refuse to enforce the law on themsleves and anyone who can pony up the cash for a decent bribe.


    At what point to the apologists for republican excesses decide their NATION matters more than their lapel pin?

    Some asshole had the temerity to tell me yesterday the Bush has been very good to HIM. ( he's rich)

    Like, who the fuck cares about anybody else? I made out...
    Not "Nation First" but " I GOT MINE! I GOT MINE!"


    God you people are worthless as human beings.
     
  9. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Oh Phil... say it isn't so... I'm worth something. A stick of gum?
     
  10. pym

    pym New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's that stinky fart smell again....Hhmmm. ^^^^
     
  11. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Agree 110%. We've got a Democrat house now... and we'll be in for 4 more years. We're already off to a good start, the best is yet to come!!!!!

    Agree. We should deregulate BUSH.

    He failed. Miserably.

    Yep. Barney Frank and Chris Dodds are also on record calling Bush out for years. Fuck Bush.

    Bad loans originated from the poor and unsuspecting. I think Halliburton is in on it... beware the industrial complex.

    Fuck Bush, he shoulda reacted on the spot. That was no plane wreck. That was America getting what it deserved, and right on the chin. The Bush policies of the first 8 months deserved the deaths. And now Bin Laden still can't be found.

    Why is Cheney not in jail?


    Bureaucracy = bad. Speaking of... Got Rights?


    Bush should be hung for Katrina alone. He did nothing, like Nagin before, and like Nagin nothing after. This was purely race. If it was a white city... there would of been first class tickets on Air Force One to evacuate whitey.

    I'm still waiting for my check. Rumpf.

    All Republicans... politicians, and everyone registered as a voting Republican should be brought to the forefront. 2009 should be a year of trials and come uppence.

    Well put. Now we already have 2 years of Congress, with 4 years of Obama. Happy times will come. Like in Lion King, when Simba comes to power after his evil uncle is removed.

    I'm with you.

    I've written Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, and Nancy Pelosi (my reps) via registered mail. I hope you don't mind.. but I cut and pasted some of your rhetoric.

    Bush has done NOTHING for me. Obama on the other hand... I can't wait.
     
  12. transformer_99

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
  13. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Love the math kiddo...it's too simple, but I'll amuse you... and remind you given this simple equation that 1% of taxpayers will be paying ~$175,000/year on a bailout, while the bill for the bottom 50% of taxpayers is an easy $27.

    Is your portfolio "Obama proof"? There are some great instruments and loops to protect your hard-earned wealth. Your financial advisor should already be on top of this, otherwise, move your assets to someone more pro-active.
     
  14. transformer_99

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Not really/necessarily, this is never going to be paid back any way, it's like the $ 600 Billion for 5 years of the Iraq War, the $ 38 billion for the 2001 tax rebate and $ 150 billion for the 2008 economic stimulus package. Taxes have been dropping for incomes, yet as inflation goes up all taxpayers bear the burden of their consumption. Since that's where the shift has occurred is in consumption, I hardly doubt the top 1 % consume so much as to be the one's considered those that will have to eat virtually all of the bailout, not to mention the three big ticket items of "W's" administrations that have amounted to $ 788 Billion already. The USA doesn't even service the interest on the debt national debt as it is as is evidenced by it's continued daily growth. So that will grow as well.

    Even if what you say might be twisted as true, then you have to really look at the disparities of income and wealth distribution ? Do you think someone that made millions of dollars last year alone can afford $ 175K over whatever time period, whether it be a single calendar year or a decade or even a lifetime ? Over those same time periods, that also applies to the person at the lowest levels of income for the $ 27 figure that was arbitrarily determined. At any rate the wealthiest will take their cut before anyone else gets a shot at getting more money.

    The issue really comes back, full circle to equitable distribution of income and wealth here. You could drill the wealthiest 1% for the entire amount, they'd still find a way to take back all of it and be the wealthiest still ! They'd do it thru price fixing, embezzling and so on and either way we'd be back to another bailout down the road, when is going to be the concern.

    But since you made this an issue of the poor ubber wealthy being unfairly taxed. Her's an example of being low balled thruoughout your lifetime and not being able to take care of yourself, outliving what the inequities of income and wealth have become in the USA.

    FOXNews.com - 90-Year-Old Woman Shoots Herself Inside Foreclosed Ohio Home - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

    What really happened here ? An elderly citizen taken advantage of by Countrywide in a reverse mortgage ? I have these nightmares in my own situation and I'm less than 1/2 her age, of not being able to have enough to retire or even outliving waht I do set aside. Let's not bullshit ourselves and think the capitalist system is even close to solving these types of issues. And the issues happen not just at the end of the lifetimes of many Americans, but at every point of your life along the way. We all cave and have been low balled to work. I know I've been doing it all my career. But the choice is, you don't work, you don't even have what a low balled lifestyle provides. Work, you'll never get paid what it's worth anyways.

    Doesn't matter what the perspective or spin is, the results are what they are.
     
  15. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    Capitalism works well only insofar as markets GROW.

    It is a powerful engine for development, for improving standards of living... but it is STILL a pyramid scheme, utterly relying on INCREASING sales, INCREASING distribution.

    China is booming because they are, INCREASINGLY, manufacturing for the rest of the world, and ALSO because their OWN people are a steadily growing market.
    As their economy grows, Chinese companies have a reservoir of a billion people who are just starting to come online as consumers... just starting to have access to good paying jobs...



    The US, meanwhile, has fully developed all of its own markets... and MOST of the available world markets...

    Aside from getting in on the ground floor in selling products to Asia and Africa, the domestic US market is only growing at the rate that immigration exceeds the low childbirth rate of established citizens.

    And given how Other nations manage their economies to protect themselves from imports... we are in a pretty sorry state.


    However- World population will hit a peak in this century at 12 billion or so...
    and thereafter, world population will begin to decline ( right after total market saturation is achieved and world affluence hits its peak)

    Once populations start to decline- the entire world will go into permanent recession- where every year sees FEWER consumers. ( affluence always results in low birth rate- lower than replacement levels )

    At that point, the world will need a NEW economic model, if civilization is to survive long term.

    We will have to plan for a Stable population and markets that, for established goods, do not grow.
    Any NEW products will only be purchasable by no longer purchasing other products.

    Money and sales with be swapped from company to company, but there will be no net growth in wealth.

    With no real growth in available wealth- continuing a capitalist model will rapidly result in all available wealth accruing into the hands of fewer and fewer people.
    If allowed, this will crash the world economy and it will be the dark ages all over again.

    This is the future, folks- totally unavoidable and some people alive RIGHT NOW will live to see this occur.

    We need to start planning for a post-capitalist world- start experimenting and running simulations to develop a workable zero growth economic model that can support world wide middle class lifestyles.

    At the current, multiplying, rate of development... we have only about 70 years before this shit hits the fan.
     
  16. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,535
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mavs, NOR * CAL
    Zero population growth. Or we spay and neuter right-wing whackos.
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    You are NOT a douche bag.

    And you are, in my estimation, worth about as much as I am...

    --two sticks of gum...
    only flavors nobody much likes...
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,595
    Likes Received:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    I should add... that part of the reason we are in this mess is that, when markets become saturated and populations are not growing... the natural tendency of capitalistic systems is to SPUR artificial growth by enabling people to buy MORE goods than they can afford.

    Freeing credit is a move to generate market growth strictly buy getting the consumers you HAVE to increase their consumption.

    But this is imaginary growth... It is a draw on future productivity...

    But if productivity in the future does not exceed the interest on these draws... then the economy contracts--- ever more money must be borrowed just to keep up with the necessary fiction of growth....

    What we are seeing today is a SMALL version of what will happen globally when global markets mature.

    The US economy has only shown growth in GNP thru borrowing against a future growth that has not happened.

    The mortgage borrowing was NOT followed by a real rise in consumer earnings... so the net result was the consumer betting on having more money to service the debt... but the economy not providing the real growth in productivity to result in rising wages.

    In the S&L crisis, the bailout paid off because the internet boom was a genuine, significant, and lasting increase in productivity. Real growth in a genuinely new market.

    The risk we face is that there is no new technology, no new industry on the horizon that can offer us the same ability for GNP to exceed interest ion the debt.

    Had this last administration focused on pushing biotechnology, rather than suppressing it, - on pushing alternative energy technologies and infrastructure, rather than suppressing it... we might be in better shape to afford the mortgage meltdown.

    The incoming administration must yank all unnecessary spending on buying replacement parts for military equipment blown to bits...
    And focus on pressing for NEW manufacturing industries HERE in the states- developing NEW products that will have world wide markets.

    We do not make money from war with other nations- we make money from business with them.

    For today's world...
    Biotechnology is a must- the longest term new industry- it will be a much richer field than electronics has been.
    ( screw the christian extremists... let the research move forward )

    And - in the shorter term- becoming a world leader in alternative energy generation and distribution. Implementing it at home is non-offshorable jobs for US citizens... and good practice and effective demonstration for selling the technology abroad.

    Terrorism is not our real enemy...

    Religious extremism from any sector is...
    And OIL is the real enemy of all our national objectives.
     
  19. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Its off topic but I've read an interesting article or two that said a contributing factor to the ongoing US obesity epidemic was a concentrated marketing effort by the food industry to increase consumption by existing consumers rather than find new consumers.

    It seems to have worked. There may be something to it.
     
  20. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,388
    Likes Received:
    2,129
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
Draft saved Draft deleted