How much longer?

D_Miranda_Wrights

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Bachmann is a special one for sure. For a president, I don't want an orater, I don't want a professional politician, I don't want someone who has never actually worked or earned an honest dollar. I want a true patriot, an Everyman, from anywhere USA. Someone who cares more about taking care of what is inside of our borders than using unnecessary fuel and funds to fly to France for a dinner. Politicians have gotten out of hand with their own spending, how can they be responsible for our nations budget?

Really? It seems to me like an Everyman would have no idea how to do leverage politics, manage an extensive bureaucracy, parse the information he was receiving, and would lack the institutional support necessary to get shit done. A pitchfork and a fiery temperament are tempting in a Mr. Smith Goes to Washington way, but what are they going to actually do?
 

Horrible

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Who is to say that it should be that complicated. I'm being naive I know, but I see no necessity that a president, by definition, has to be so well versed in bullshit in order to do the job he is hired for. The bullshit is necessary in order to be crooked sure, but to just do the damn job right, I see no reason for it.
 

B_RedDude

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When campaigning for the presidency, Jimmy Carter said, "I will never lie to you." Even his mother told him to knock it off.

Who is to say that it should be that complicated. I'm being naive I know, but I see no necessity that a president, by definition, has to be so well versed in bullshit in order to do the job he is hired for. The bullshit is necessary in order to be crooked sure, but to just do the damn job right, I see no reason for it.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Funny enough Romney's support of mandatory health insurance and his history of predatory business decisions alone should sink him in GOP circles. Mandatory health insurance is a joke.

What's really sad is that the mandatory heath insurance that some people feel is a joke is the one angle he could play to gain traction in the 2012 Presidential race... if he ran as an Independent. It may not be the perfect, but as it stands Massachusetts currently is one of the top five healthiest states in the nation, has the highest percentage of children covered by health insurance and the second highest percentage of all citizens covered by insurance. As of the top of the year, 63% of people who live in Massachusetts approved of the health care law that Romney put into place for the state despite the mandate. IMO, that's a platform worth running on.

But since Romney wants the GOP nomination (and all that campaign money that comes with it), he has to denounce the one thing that actually went well for him since in order to be viewed as a "true Republican" these days you have to be against ANY form of government sponsored health care. I do agree with you, however, about his bad business practices. Romney has a long history of buying up companies to intentionally bankrupt them and collect the money left over, which will not help him at all when it comes to discussions regarding the economy. On top of this, the par-Tea and far right factions of the GOP can't stand Romney.

He's the early conservative frontrunner and the only one that stands a fighting chance against Obama if they sparred on the issues. Ron Paul isn't going to win. Bachmann, Santorum and Cain are already dead in the water, Pawlenty & Huntsman are as invigorating as John Kerry... and that's not a compliment. :wink:
 

B_RedDude

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I agree, maybe from a different perspective, but I hope that the states that are suing the Federal government on this prevail. It's actually worse than a joke. Why the fuck should I be forced to pay money to some goddamned private insurance company,whose "administrative" costs add so much to the amount of money spent on health care in this country? And HCR legislation does not even offer a public option, even though health care finance administered by the government is much cheaper administratively.

Mandatory health insurance is a joke.
 

Horrible

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Hmmm, I've never heard of a president named zippy bush. America has had 12 years of combined bush administration, I'd say he/they must have done something right.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Hmmm, I've never heard of a president named zippy bush. America has had 12 years of combined bush administration, I'd say he/they must have done something right.

They did enough to get elected. If that's the only goal a President needs to achieve these days, then sure they did something right. But that doesn't mean that they did enough to make sure our country was on the right path when they left. IMO, that is far more important than just "winning the election" and keeping a family name in power for 12 years.
 

MercyfulFate

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What's really sad is that the mandatory heath insurance that some people feel is a joke is the one angle he could play to gain traction in the 2012 Presidential race... if he ran as an Independent. It may not be the perfect, but as it stands Massachusetts currently is one of the top five healthiest states in the nation, has the highest percentage of children covered by health insurance and the second highest percentage of all citizens covered by insurance. As of the top of the year, 63% of people who live in Massachusetts approved of the health care law that Romney put into place for the state despite the mandate. IMO, that's a platform worth running on.

But since Romney wants the GOP nomination (and all that campaign money that comes with it), he has to denounce the one thing that actually went well for him since in order to be viewed as a "true Republican" these days you have to be against ANY form of government sponsored health care. I do agree with you, however, about his bad business practices. Romney has a long history of buying up companies to intentionally bankrupt them and collect the money left over, which will not help him at all when it comes to discussions regarding the economy. On top of this, the par-Tea and far right factions of the GOP can't stand Romney.

He's the early conservative frontrunner and the only one that stands a fighting chance against Obama if they sparred on the issues. Ron Paul isn't going to win. Bachmann, Santorum and Cain are already dead in the water, Pawlenty & Huntsman are as invigorating as John Kerry... and that's not a compliment. :wink:

I live in Massachusetts, and the mandatory health insurance sucks ass. Why? Because as it stands I can't afford it, and I'll have to pay because I can't afford it. It's done nothing to lower costs, everyone's insurance has still skyrocketed same as the rest of the country.

Can you show me where it says we're healthier?
 

B_VinylBoy

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I live in Massachusetts, and the mandatory health insurance sucks ass. Why? Because as it stands I can't afford it, and I'll have to pay because I can't afford it. It's done nothing to lower costs, everyone's insurance has still skyrocketed same as the rest of the country.

Can you show me where it says we're healthier?

If I showed you the links that I used to come up with this data, will you at least try to understand the point I was trying to make or continue to assume that your own personal grievances trump the statistics? Please let me know because I don't want to waste my time getting into an argument over this. I never said the health care system in Massachusetts was perfect, alas, despite its flaws it is still a widely popular system that receives lots of support from those who live there. That cannot be argued regardless of whether or not you personally like it. The numbers don't lie.

And BTW... not only was I born & raised in Massachusetts, but I'm moving back there with my hubby in just a few weeks.
 

MercyfulFate

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If I showed you the links that I used to come up with this data, will you at least try to understand the point I was trying to make or continue to assume that your own personal grievances trump the statistics? Please let me know because I don't want to waste my time getting into an argument over this. I never said the health care system in Massachusetts was perfect, alas, despite its flaws it is still a widely popular system that receives lots of support from those who live there. That cannot be argued regardless of whether or not you personally like it. The numbers don't lie.

And BTW... not only was I born & raised in Massachusetts, but I'm moving back there with my hubby in just a few weeks.

I've just never seen anything that says we're healthier now, just that most people are covered. Oh and good luck getting MassHealth if you can't afford a private plan. I've been waiting months.
 

B_VinylBoy

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I've just never seen anything that says we're healthier now, just that most people are covered.

Well, here's a portion of the sites I searched and some of its findings:
According to this survey on WalletPop in 2009 which crunches data received from an annual list from CQ Press, Massachusetts was listed as the second most healthiest state. According to another survey from Forbes in 2010, Massachusetts is also ranked second (only behind to Vermont). And according to CNBC surveys, Massachusetts was ranked third.

20 Healthiest States for 2009 (Photos)-- WalletPop
Full Ranking: America's Healthiest And Unhealthiest States - Forbes.com
News Headlines

When we read the blurbs listed in these surveys about Massachusetts, we find that the state has the highest percentage of children & regular citizens covered by health insurance. This is also backed by a chart on Wikipedia that measures the percentage of uninsured people by state, using Census Bureau data obtained in their regular Current Population Survey. In 2007, Massachusetts had the lowest percentage of 5.4% and has been the lowest in subsequent years for 2008 (5.5%) and 2009 (4.4%).

Health insurance coverage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, here are more statistics regarding the 2006 health bill.
Despite roughly 44% of people who don't like it being mandated, the new health care law still receives 63% of support from its citizens, which breaks down to being 77% of Democrats, 60% of Independents and even 40% of Republicans. Despite a difficult financial environment in the state, 74% want the law to continue, with 51% favoring continuing it with some changes and 23% continuing it as is.

Massachusetts Support for Health Reform Rises Despite Rising Costs

Again, my point is that if Romney ran as an Independent he could use this to his advantage to sway voters. I provided just five of several independent sources showing that it does work. If I was running for president and had this as a trump card, I'd certainly be playing it. Considering the support it receives from Independent voters, it can only play to his advantage since he's getting little to no support from any of the key players in the GOP to begin with. But as a Republican candidate he has to denounce and run away from it since their litmus test requires everyone to publicly denounce anything governmentally funded.

Oh and good luck getting MassHealth if you can't afford a private plan. I've been waiting months.

Before I moved to New York permanently I was on MassHealth. Like any government program it takes a lot of time to process. But ultimately, if you're low to medium income and can't afford a private plan it's worth the wait. Better to have something than nothing at all.
 

MercyfulFate

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The fact that Vermont is healthier kinda shows mandatory healthcare doesn't have much of an impact. Being healthy doesn't mean insurance is involved for example. I can't post links from my phone sadly. The Forbes thing says New England in general is the best, Vermont has a lot of people with insurance but as far as I know it isnt mandatory.

Im just not sure theres any evidence mandatory insurance equals healthy. Plus the Forbes survey takes crime into account.

My biggest issue is being forced to pay for not being able to afford it. I got lucky last year, I didnt make enough money. This year I will probably be forced to pay.

Mind you I would be all for it if there was universal healthcare. But since there isnt, being forced to pay higher and higher premiums is absurd.
 

houtx48

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Hmmm, I've never heard of a president named zippy bush. America has had 12 years of combined bush administration, I'd say he/they must have done something right.
Perhaps you know him as Zippy W. Bush. As for getting reinstated a second time it's a mystery to me.
 

Mensch1351

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I guess to remain somewhat on topic. I truly would like to know just "who" the conservatives on this blog are intending to support for the 2012 nomination? I've asked several of my own conservative friends and I get very non-descript answers. There just doesn't seem to be a great deal of passion for any "one" person...however --- as I've read before: Democrats fall in love with their candidates -- Republicans fall in line! I strongly suspect that once the bloodletting is over you're going to find that whoever their nominee is they will be the be all and end all in the bestest Republican tradition (and very financially well backed!)
 

Horrible

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Just as in all elections since I have been of voting age, you only have the "lesser of 2 evils" choice. I'd like to see condaleeza (sp) rice run, along with Donald trump and Ralph Nader. Most of the GOP candidates I've seen thus far are a damn joke! It won't take much to make things better.