How Obama's tax assault will wreck the economy

[houtx48]

More drive by shitting? Still sorry you have a black president .

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Gee, it's like "the entity" never left us.

 

[deleted15807]

Gee, it's like "the entity" never left us.

You do recall the last time 'the entity' was banished, it's understudy quickly stepped in to fill the void.

Recall the celebratory thread of the entity's return by StarryEyed Investor.

Trinity's back. Everything makes sense now

I fear the thread will be reused again someday.

 

[Satsfakshun]

The tax rates go back to the Clinton-era rate, a.k.a. the longest economic expansion in our nation's history.

 

[justasimpleguy]

Star, complaining about taxes when they're at historical lows and while Bush's unfunded tax cuts are still the biggest contributor to the deficit is just dumb as a bag of rocks. Are you dumb as a bag of rocks or just playing at it?

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

On Jan. 1, 2011, federal, state and local taxes are scheduled to rise sharply.

W. Bush's tax cuts expire on that date, meaning the highest federal personal income tax rate will go from 35% to 39.6%, capital gains will rise from 15% to 20%, highest dividend rate will go from 15% to 39.6% and the estate tax will go from zero to 55%.

Taxes that don't affect 90% of us are going up to rational levels? Here I thought you didn't like deficits....

And oh by the way, ALL of the stimulus money will have been spent by the end of 2010.

Inaccurate. That's allocated.

The result will be that spending will dry up like a prune, tax reciepts will actually fall despite all the tax hikes, simply because personal income will be way down -- and as the economy is coming to a halt, we have absolutely no more weapons to stimulate the economy. No more stimulus money. Cannot cut interest rates any more.

I'm glad to see that you can literally predict the future, but somehow I think you can't.

Anyhow, the reason that there will be no more stimulus is that conservative Dems and all the Republicans will not vote for one. The first one should have been bigger for that reason, but somehow I remember you being against that.

Prepare for horrendous increases in unemployment, a double-dip recession which will be worse than the initial in 2008, and national debt that is skyrocketing by the minute.

Wait, now you're complaining about the debt? I thought you didn't want increased taxes and wanted a stimulus? You can't have it both ways.

Look what happened to auto sales after the cash for clunkers program ended. Look what happened to home sales after the homebuyer tax credit expired.

Yes, they moved demand forward, but didn't actually create new demand.

If you tax people to work, and pay people not to work, you are doomed.

Who's paying people not to work? The problem is there are not enough jobs.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Gonna go ahead and post this here.

 

[Satsfakshun]

Taxes that don't affect 90% of us are going up to rational levels? Here I thought you didn't like deficits....



Inaccurate. That's allocated.



I'm glad to see that you can literally predict the future, but somehow I think you can't.

Anyhow, the reason that there will be no more stimulus is that conservative Dems and all the Republicans will not vote for one. The first one should have been bigger for that reason, but somehow I remember you being against that.



Wait, now you're complaining about the debt? I thought you didn't want increased taxes and wanted a stimulus? You can't have it both ways.



Yes, they moved demand forward, but didn't actually create new demand.



Who's paying people not to work? The problem is there are not enough jobs.

But... but... but Rush says ...

 

[B_starinvestor]

Taxes that don't affect 90% of us are going up to rational levels? Here I thought you didn't like deficits....

Tax rates are going up in every bracket - so everyone who actually pays taxes will experience an increase.

Inaccurate. That's allocated.

Not inaccurate. The stimulus money is gone at the end of 2010.

I'm glad to see that you can literally predict the future, but somehow I think you can't.

Anyhow, the reason that there will be no more stimulus is that conservative Dems and all the Republicans will not vote for one. The first one should have been bigger for that reason, but somehow I remember you being against that.

I'm not asking for more stimulus. I'm merely indicating that we will have no more weapons to save the economy come January 2011.

Wait, now you're complaining about the debt? I thought you didn't want increased taxes and wanted a stimulus? You can't have it both ways.

I do not want more stimulus. Raising taxes will impede the progress of economic expansion.

Yes, they moved demand forward, but didn't actually create new demand.

Point being - when you take things away, everything dries up. Similar to what will happen when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Who's paying people not to work? The problem is there are not enough jobs.

The U.S. Government.

 

[B_New End]

I do not want more stimulus. Raising taxes will impede the progress of economic expansion.

Nothing is going to stop the inevitable collapse of the American economy. You all made your bed, now lie in it.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Tax rates are going up in every bracket - so everyone who actually pays taxes will experience an increase.

Would you challenge the figures in the tax table on this page?

That looks like barely a change outside of the high end for me. And since we are close to deflation, or at least in disinflation, inflationary bracket creep seems to not be an issue. And let's not forget, at the high end incomes are enormously sensitive to asset prices and asset prices have been propped up by government support, so those people SHOULD be paying higher taxes.

Not inaccurate. The stimulus money is gone at the end of 2010.


I'm not asking for more stimulus. I'm merely indicating that we will have no more weapons to save the economy come January 2011.


I do not want more stimulus. Raising taxes will impede the progress of economic expansion.

Point being - when you take things away, everything dries up. Similar to what will happen when the Bush tax cuts expire.

We do have more weapons, including more stimulus. If you doubt we can manage more stimulus, please check bond yields...Also, Helicopter Ben could up his inflation target, that would help a lot.

Don't assume there is an axiomatic relationship between taxes and growth. A lot of what matters is who/what is taxed and where it goes. For the last few decades labor, that is people who work, has been viciously taxed while their money has been used to support the interests of the narrow few. And when I say "narrow few", I don't just mean my billionaire neighbors. I also mean the way a bloated Defense Department, agriculture subsidies, and roads to nowhere buy off Red State voters.

Economic expansion happens though successful investment. At present with nominal interests close to zero and real interests at or close to negative territory, the private sector still has no good places to invest. Stimulus is helpful in that in can find projects that have positive return for society (e.g. education, fighting Nazi in WWII, limiting our vulnerability to oil shocks, cleaning our air, etc.) but wouldn't have a positive return for any one participant.

I think you might kind of have a point about the U.S. Government causing some of the current mess. The issue is the government has spent at least years, if not a few decades or perhaps a bit more than a century supporting a lot of unsustainable ideas. We are now stuck in a cul-de-sac of our making, just at the Communists of the Warsaw Pact were in the late 80s/early 90s. We have to face up to many policies having failed. In addition to stimulus, we need serious reforms to many institutions so productive economic activity isn't hampered by rent-seeking. What I think you totally miss is that there is a very good argument for those bad policies being the result of Republican initiatives (e.g. who bloated DoD? who pushes ag subsidies? who fights consumption and resource taxes while taxing labor and capital creation who makes sure our dependence on foreign oil is so high?).

 

[bananaclubcock]

Nothing is going to stop the inevitable collapse of the American economy. You all made your bed, now lie in it.

In an absolute sense, everything human made is destined to collapse. In the short or medium term, collapse is a function of our ability to address our mistakes.

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

"Thread titles should be as bias-free as possible - if they are considered to be out of line with this rule then titles will be edited by a moderator to a more neutral stance."

Moderators, where are you?

 

[B_starinvestor]

"Thread titles should be as bias-free as possible - if they are considered to be out of line with this rule then titles will be edited by a moderator to a more neutral stance."

Moderators, where are you?

Forum communism, anybody?

Should posts be censored and deleted if a bias exists too?

this thread, for example, has nothing neutral about it. The current administration's tax policy will have a devastatingly negative affect on our economy.

Is there a neutral way to say that?

 

[B_starinvestor]

In an absolute sense, everything human made is destined to collapse. In the short or medium term, collapse is a function of our ability to address our mistakes.

i disagree wholeheartedly.

Has there been a collapse in medical technology? In transportation? In genetic research? In medical treatment? In technological innovation? In vaccines? In astronomy?

How about treatment for vision impairments? Physical rehabilitation? Has education collapsed?

I've not seen a collapse in charities, in nutrition, fuel efficiency, internet bandwidth, cellphone capability or broadcast communication.

 

[TomCat84]

Forum communism, anybody?

Should posts be censored and deleted if a bias exists too?

this thread, for example, has nothing neutral about it. The current administration's tax policy will have a devastatingly negative affect on our economy.

Is there a neutral way to say that?

Forum communism? I'm confused. Do you mean authoritarianism?

 

[bananaclubcock]

Forum communism? I'm confused. Do you mean authoritarianism?

STARINVESTOR don't like you use no big WERDS!

 

[bananaclubcock]

i disagree wholeheartedly.

Has there been a collapse in medical technology? In transportation? In genetic research? In medical treatment? In technological innovation? In vaccines? In astronomy?

How about treatment for vision impairments? Physical rehabilitation? Has education collapsed?

I've not seen a collapse in charities, in nutrition, fuel efficiency, internet bandwidth, cellphone capability or broadcast communication.

I might add collapse to communism on my list of words that confuse you. If you think something human made lasts forever...well there is some bridge I want to sell you. Just because it hasn't happened in your little lifetime doesn't mean much.

BTW, this strikes me as the list of someone in the medical devices or drugs industries. Not to be snide, but those fields are ridiculously rent-seeking, which makes them strangely popular with Republicans...

Also, when are you going to man up and address my casual refutation of your economic 'arguments'? I know I am sucker for feeding your desire for attention, but after trying to reason with the bozos on foxnation.com, I found your ability to string together at least a couple of sentences heartening. But your misuse of the word "Communism" has me wondering if you are so different from those folks. Please disabuse me of the idea that you are like them!

 

[bananaclubcock]

Starinvestor, if you are still out there, I thought you might be interested in this interview with David Stockman, a Reagan budget official and supply sider. He is all for letting the Bush tax cuts expire. He also talks about ending these ridiculous wars. Understand the biggest of big government is the DoD and that is a Republican constituency.

 

[joseph_hung]

i disagree wholeheartedly.

Has there been a collapse in medical technology? In transportation? In genetic research? In medical treatment? In technological innovation? In vaccines? In astronomy?

How about treatment for vision impairments? Physical rehabilitation? Has education collapsed?

I've not seen a collapse in charities, in nutrition, fuel efficiency, internet bandwidth, cellphone capability or broadcast communication.

Lol, there have absolutely been collapses in technology over time. The Romans invented concrete and it wasn't rediscovered for another 1500 years. They had their own anesthetics, surgical tools, and medicines that were also lost until modern history. They had indoor plumbing systems, advanced cross-country irrigation, and multiple-story apartment buildings. The library of Alexandria had pretty much every scholarly book ever written until it was burned down (3 times). In ancient Greece, Archimedes is believed to have worked on clockwork designs and unified field theory among various other advanced forms of mathematics (physicists today STILL haven't completely worked out unified field theory).

Let's see.. Democracy was prettn much lost for a while after Rome went imperial; east/west world knowledge from the libraries of Baghdad was destroyed by the mongols; Mayan mathematical formulas were temporarily lost when European powers overran the Americas; yeah, tons of man-made innovations have been lost just over the course of a few millenia.

Oh, and like half the stimulus package was tax cuts. And any minute tax increases since have been more than negated by various tax exemptions implemented under various legislation. And even if our taxes went up 2 or 3% to pay off the debts you guys simultaneously complain about, something tells me you aren't going to be forced into poverty.