How to come-out as bi to the wife ?

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by jack_again, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Well, here's the situation. I'm married, bi and in the closet. As you may have read on my other posts, I've had loads (heheh) of experience with guys but my wife knows nothing about it! I crave cock so much sometimes that I wish I could just go out and get it. I've been entertaining the idea of getting my wife involved, mmf three-ways for example, but don't know how to delicately broach the subject nor if she would be into it. Maybe begin by watching some mmf/bi/gay porn together then let her draw conclusions by observing my giant hard-on? Eventually I think it would be fun to go to a gay bar together and have her pick out a guy I could hit on in hopes that he would join us. Does anyone have any experience or advice in this area to share? Thanks much!
     
  2. fantasychick

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    Well, I don't know your wife personally ( ie her beliefs, background, reaction to bi men in general) so I can't judge what her exact reaction will be. But probably one of the most important things you need to stress is that the fact you crave cock now and again doesn't make her any less of a woman or any less desireable in your eyes. For me, when my bf told me he liked some guys( and I told him I liked some women), we both sat down together, when we weren't tired from work, and just talked. About how we liked the same sex as ourselves sometimes, and took pleasure in it, but we didn't love each other less and wanted the other to be happy with it... Needless to say it's led to some interesting experiences for us both ;)
     
  3. curiouscam

    curiouscam New Member

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    It really is a tough situation. Unless she knew from the beginning that you were also sexually attracted to men it may be difficult to talk to her about it now. The fact that she doesn't know your past experiences with men is a BIG issue. That for a lot of couples can be a deal breaker, married or not. All the Bi couples I know told eachother up front about their attraction to both sexes. I think expecting to ease her into it with bi porn would be a huge mistake. The most important thing before even thinking about 2 of you picking out a guy is to tell her that you even have these feelings in the first place. If you are honest with her and tell her EVERYTHING at least you will have it all out in the open. Then you two can go from there. If she is understanding then great, but even if she is not you will have been transparent with her. She deserves at least that. If you find yourself really craving men lately, you really should talk to her about it soon. Don't fall into the "double life" so many men do. There is nothing but shame and guilt there. I do wish you the best of luck and hope that things work out for the best.:biggrin1:
     
  4. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    GREAT advice FantasyChick - thanks so much! For what it's worth, to adress your questions about my wife's personality: she is liberal, comes from a good, supportive, loving and generous family, and she has many gay friends, and often speculates about people's sexuality (i.e.: " I think he's gay... or bi" in reference to a co-worker or whomever). Would you mind elaborating on how your boyfriend came out to you? What was the circumstance, the context, etc, etc, ? Thanks again
     
  5. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Thank you Curious Cam! Yes, you're correct... this is a subject that should have been explored long ago. Maybe it just comes down to the fact that I don't want to be defined by my sexuality and am too shy to slide down that slope that becomes coming-out to friends and family, etc, etc. This is really a tough situation but I appreciate your advice greatly. Thanks so much :)
     
  6. curiouscam

    curiouscam New Member

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    No prob. Hoping it does all work out in your favor. Then your posts will be about all the adventures you and your wife get into together:tongue: I totally get what you mean about having it turn into a whole coming out event. As long as she knows everything and is supportive of what you are feeling the only people that need to know anything are you 2.
     
  7. D_Anton_Pavlovich_Jerkhov

    D_Anton_Pavlovich_Jerkhov Account Disabled

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    I can agree with Curiouscam: it is a tough situation.

    I am much in the same boat as you, the difference being that I have never had any real experiences with the same sex yet, it is just on my mind, or my fantasies, if you prefer.

    If I were you, I would only come out to my wife if I knew I was ready to give up on my own marriage. I am not ready for that at this point of my life. I know I am living a double life to a certain extent, but that is about all I can do for the moment.

    I am afraid I can't give you the best advice. Actually, who can? All that I seem to know (although I can be totally off) is that a life based only lust and sex rather than meaningful relationships can be disastrous.

    But if you are ready to sacrifice your marriage, if needed be, then go for it. Tell your wife about your secret desires, don't propose anything yet, but just wait for her response.
     
  8. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Thanks Joca - very considerate response. I'm so grateful to everyone who's weighing in on this topic and giving such nourishing food for thought. Thank you
     
  9. horneyoldguy

    horneyoldguy New Member

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    Check out this site for bi / gay guys in the closet, many are married and, like me, want to stay that way- Yahoo! Groups
     
    #9 horneyoldguy, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  10. Silvertip

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    I don't have any personal experience with this problem as I only explored my bi side as a single man, after my last divorce. But I would think it has to be a highly individual thing as to whether or not you feel guilt and/or shame by not telling your wife of your male/male activities. Since your wife has no problem accepting others as gay or bi I would think the ideal thing would be to find a bi male who is out and develop a friendship with him. Once your wife knows him, and knows that he is bi, that would make it easier to bring the subject up for discussion. Last summer I spent a wonderful week of bisexual fun with a married couple the wife of which wasn't initially bi or into group sex. Her husband coaxed her into the lifestyle over a period of time and now she absolutely loves it. So it can obviously be done but the potential perils are equally obvious. All I can say is good luck in whatever actions you take.
     
  11. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Great advice SilverTip. Another approach to take to broach the subject of bisexuality with my wife. Great. Thanks a LOT
     
  12. BigBulgeMan

    BigBulgeMan Active Member

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    Well, I'm a bi married man. But I told it to my wife at the very beginning of our relationship. It's a part of me… I asked her not to try changing me in that domain. After 12 marriage years, I could say that she loves me as I am. But I didn't lie about that men attraction.
    Perhaps a solution for you is to have some threesome with your wife and another guy (if she love that kind of experience)… so she could experiment the fact that you like to play with the other guy too :wink:
     
  13. pwrdick

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    Great that you are open to ideas.

    I lost my virginity to the woman I married 25 years ago, but after we started living together I started to fool around with men. We got married and I kept things in the closet. I ended up having quite a few hook-ups with other married guys in the small town we lived in at the time. We'd even go out as foursomes and while the wives were in the kitchen, we were in the office, fooling around.......

    Anyway I started feeling pretty bad about it and decided it was better to end the relationship for a vague reason. She frankly did not accept that approach and insisted on knowing if there was someone else. When I told her I was far more attracted to men than women, she actually told me that she was fine with that and she felt FAR less threatened with that than if I had been seeing another woman. She knew we could work something out, and I am certain that she would have tried....

    But this was the early days of the AIDS crisis and I could not bear the thought that what I did with guys could affect her (this was before the etiology was discovered). So we ended the marriage amicably (and I gave her away at her second marriage).

    Looking back now, it would have been cool to have lived that life openly with her and other men. But I know that I am less of a bi man than you sound like and that would not have been a long-lasting marriage even with her accomodations.

    A good heart-to-heart talk is exactly what both of you need and deserve. But do it with sensitivity and listen to not only what she says but what her body language transmits.

    Marc
     
  14. biguy2738

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    I need to warn you that this post is going to be long and that I may touch on things that could come as a surprise to you. What I need to point out is that apart from my own experience of coming out to my wife (after being together for 7 years...of which, we were married for four), I've worked with a lot of partners trying to come to terms with their recent discovery of their partner's bisexuality. I can tell you that what happens in fantasy (where you express your desire to have an MMF and your wife embraces your bisexuality) is oftentimes very different to how things play out in reality. You have no idea just how loaded the topic of coming out to one's wife is, but there are a lot of things to consider and it involves a lot of preparation. Added to which, you cannot take your wife's liberal approach towards sexuality for granted...I've crossed paths with many bisexual women that are completely grossed out by and against m2m sex etc. and subsequently insisted that their husbands continued to be monogamous in their marriages. A lot of it has to do with social conditioning - it's hawt for two women to be together but it's disgusting if two men get it on.

    The harshest truths that you need to be aware of, is that once you cross that threshold, there is absolutely no turning back; your marriage will be altered forever. The information that you'd like to impart to her will forever alter the way that she sees you. It doesn't imply that it will be negative, because your courage etc could lead to her respecting you even more...but there's no guarantee that this will be the case. Your marriage can end up being strengthened through being able to relate with each other with greater authenticity, but your marriage can also end up falling apart. My advice would be that you paint the bleakest picture in your mind and to spend time reflecting on how you will deal with things if they come to that because it will help ensure that you are fully prepared for this kind of undertaking.

    The second harshest truth is that you'll be opening yourself up for scrutiny. Coming out to your wife stands to create a level of insecurity and disempowerment in your wife. She's may wonder if you aren't perhaps gay. She's going to have questions about how your revelation stands to impact her and your marriage. She's going to monitor your comings and goings while paying extra attention to your interpersonal relationships with other guys. If you decide to tell her that you're bisexual, you're going to have to bring yourself to a place where you're willing to accept and accommodate the scrutiny of your wife. It may be helpful to remind yourself where this is coming from and who brought it on, not from a place of trying to affix blame etc., but rather, in order to take responsibility for where she is finding herself to be so that you are able to meet her scrutiny with patience and understanding.

    As I've mentioned, I've worked with quite a number of partners of bisexual men. Much as this revelation about the men in their lives pulled the proverbial rug out from under them, in 99% of the cases that I bore witness to, the husband or boyfriend was the problem and not his sexuality.

    Here's a classic example of what I'm on about. Most of the situations weren't experienced to this kind of degree, but I'm opting to use it because it very clearly illustrates what I'm on about.

    Wife:
    I met (let's call her) Mary just over two years ago. Mary was married for five years and found out that her husband is bisexual and that he was hooking up with men for sex behind her back, after he infected her with an STD. It served as a triple whammy for her: He is bi. He cheated on her. He put her health at risk in the process. She came to terms with what took place and decided to do some research about bisexuality so that she could better understand her hubby and his needs. It was at this juncture that I crossed paths with her. Sharing about my own journey, answering her questions and offering her information about bisexuality eventually led to her decision to open up their marriage. The only condition that she had, was that she wanted it to take place in the form of MMF's purely because it meant that she'd also have a say in who her husband hooked up with i.e. if she was at risk of getting infected in the future, then she wanted to have a say in the matter. However, the biggest reason for this decision came from a place where she didn't want her husband to lead an unfulfilled and miserable life.

    Husband:
    Let's call her husband, John. In the midst of all of this, John became an absolute narcissistic asshole (in my opinion). He refused to talk to her about what took place, to answer any of her questions or to help her to better understand bisexuality. When she told him that we'd met and that I was helping her to better understand the situation, his response was, "good luck". Her attempts to use my discussions with her as a means of opening up channels of communication between them were unsuccessful. When she told him that she was willing to open up their marriage, he responded by telling her that the whole STD infection had "scared him straight" however, every night he'd come in from work, sit in front of the computer and watch gay porn in front of her.

    Outcome:
    After three months of dealing with this kind of approach, Mary filed for divorce. I silently supported her decision. She was busting her balls for him and attempting to offer him her best, while he didn't give a damn about anybody other than himself.

    There are some common denominators that tend to play out when the husband/bf either reveals his bisexuality to his wife/gf, or when she finds out about it by looking on the PC, checking his phone for messages etc., and they are:

    - Narcissistic approach of husband or boyfriend
    - Too much information, too soon
    - Agendas
    - Insecurity/Disempowerment

    Narcissistic approach
    Whenever we're feeling insecure, afraid, vulnerable or we're faced with situations that cause strong and uncomfortable emotions to surface, we tend to become rather narcissistic...in terms of we become so wrapped up with the situation and our emotions that we don't take the time to make ourselves aware of what the other person is going through. There's nothing malicious about this because it's human nature. However, as men, we tend to lack empathy and sensitivity in our approach with those around us. To a large degree, this is how we are conditioned from birth. Being raised in environments that echo "Cowboys don't cry" etc. conditions us to push away our emotions, most especially the ones that cause a lot of discomfort. This means that we're ill-equipped with dealing with our feelings and as a result, the walls go up, we're unable to display empathy, we tend to be aggressive in our approach and it eventually leads to a disconnect between ourselves and those around us.

    There are two ways that enable us to have a good handle on this, and thus prevent it from being the cause of the deterioration of our relationships. The first thing would be emotional preparation. The only way of being less narcissistic in the situation, would be to take some time to prepare ourselves for it. One of the best ways would be to create worst case scenarios in your mind and to invest time in them while approaching them on an emotional instead of an intellectual level i.e. you need to try to force yourself to sit with your own uncomfortable emotions and only once you are able to do so with ease, would it be wise to take the plunge and talk to your wife about your sexuality. The second thing would be, after you've initiated discussions with her, to then constantly put yourself in your wife's shoes and ask yourself how you think that she must be feeling etc. and to attempt to maintain some kind of emotional connect with her.

    Too much information, too soon
    As I've mentioned, in situations like this, we tend to lack empathy and sensitivity towards our partners. We're feeling vulnerable, insecure and possibly afraid of what the repercussions will be and we tend to respond to these feelings aggressively because aggression creates a superficial sense of empowerment and being in control. Sometimes we'll respond with anger and snap at our partners, but in instances like this, most of the time we respond by throwing every last bit of information at our partner, all at once. Another classic example to illustrate what I'm on about:

    I can't remember when I met Simon, but he came from a place where he was married for a couple of years, he is bisexual and he'd been hooking up with men behind his wife's back from when they started to date. He obvious set off warning bells in his wife's head because she'd ask him if he wasn't perhaps gay or bi from time to time and her questions were constantly met with denial and anger. However, he eventually came to a place where he decided to come clean to her and his approach literally led to his whole life imploding in a 24 hour period.
     
  15. biguy2738

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    He opted to come clean to her one evening but he hadn't taken the time to emotionally prepare himself for it and to carefully consider how he wanted to approach things with her. It led to him getting the discussion going by bursting into laughter and telling her that he'd been fucking guys behind her back for the duration of their relationship. Need I say that she was completely floored. Her reaction led to him spewing out every last bit of information, involuntarily. He didn't only confirm that he is bi, nor did he throw out information about his infidelity, but he told her how many guys he'd had sex with, what sex acts he participated in, where they took place...you name it, he said it to her. By the time that he'd finished, she was completely devastated. When he saw how she'd reacted, he responded by self protecting so the walls came up and he refused to talk to her about it and he opted to spend the night in the spare bedroom.

    They woke up the following morning and he opted to pretend as if nothing took place, which unsettled his wife even more. She was desperate to understand what she was dealing with, and it led to her decision to talk his father in an attempt to better understand her husband and to ask him for help in trying to get Simon to open up and talk about the bombshell. His father agreed to help and went to visit Simon and talk to him. Simon responded in the same way by throwing every little smudgeon of information in his father's direction. I also need to point out that his father was very homophobic which led to a very strong reaction...which led to him punching his dad. By the time that the dust had settled, his whole family had turned against him, his wife decided that she wanted a divorce and he attempted to commit suicide. ...all of this took place within a 24 hour time frame...

    You need to be aware that the news about your bisexuality stands to be destabilizing and create subsequent insecurity. Be aware that we all have pictures of how we envisage our future to be and a lot of these images are based on the things that we know in the present. Your wife has an image in her mind of who you are and how things will be in the future. This revelation stands to take all of it away from her, and this in turn will lead to her being very insecure. The more information that you reveal, the stronger the sense of insecurity. Much as you cannot control your wife's reaction, are able to control how things are presented to her. It will be much easier for the two of you if you're able to find a balance between destablizing things for her while being able to offer her additional stability. What I'm implying is that you carefully consider what you feel she needs to know and to then tailor the information according to how much she'll be able to cope with in one sitting.

    What I found to be helpful was to set the ball rolling by dropping very subtle clues. In my case, I realised that I'm bi after I met and befriended a gay guy...and we ended up falling in love with each other. Since she knew that my friend is gay and she was aware of how close we were and how attached we'd become of each other, I started to drop hints by making constant comments about how we were able to relate with each other in the way that we did because "the girly boy in me was able to connect with the girly boy in him". This approach was based on not wanting to give her information but to create questions in her mind about my sexuality...because while she was questioning she was preparing herself for my bombshell.

    I continued to prepare her for my news in the midst of coming out to her. I've always been aware that I'm not your stereotypical macho guy, so I started off by talking about it and asking her if she'd picked up on it as well. I spoke about how, I'd much rather cook than sit in front of the television and watch sports. I used this as a means of connecting the dots for her and telling her that I'm bisexual because it is less threatening etc than to focus on the sexual dimension of our sexual orientation. That was as far as our first discussion went and I ended it by giving her print material about bisexuality, J. R. Little's 13 forms of bisexuality typology as well as information about misconceptions of bisexuality. I told her to take her time reading through it and when she was ready to talk about it or if she had any questions, then I'd be more that willing to talk to her about it some more. Since women process information emotionally etc, from that point onwards, cue: a whack load of additional displays of affection - as a means of offering her reassurance and a sense of security.

    The point that I'm trying to make is that it will best serve you to break down the information into bite sized portions and to offer it to her once you've been able to identify that she'd had enough time to chew on and digest the previous piece. In my instance, this process took us eight months but it was most certainly worth it.

    Agendas
    I'm going to be blunt. Women have built in bullshit detectors. Regardless of how subtle you may try to be or how you attempt to sugarcoat things for her, she >WILL< see right through it and detect any of your agendas that you may try to hide. You need to be aware that much as she may be accepting of bisexuals etc., the fact of the matter is that she's willing and able to do so because it's taking place out "there". Bringing it closer to home is an altogether different thing. Virtually every single partner (of a bisexual) that I've met didn't have any problem with her hubby/bf's bisexuality BUT they didn't want to share them with another men and they were also concerned about the risks of getting infected i.e. they were willing to accept their partners' bisexuality but they refused to open up their relationship. You need to be aware of this and you need to be willing to accept that this is how she may react to your news, if you don't want your relationship to go down a slippery slope.

    If your only agenda is one of wanting to have sex with men and she doesn't want to open up your marriage, the game will be over before it's even started...because she'll pick up on where you're coming from, her walls will go up and it will mean that she'll be reluctant to what you have to say. In light of this, it will be helpful for you to spend some time asking, "What do I hope to achieve from coming out to my wife?" Unless you're able to identify agendas that involve her and her wellbeing (eg "I want to relate more authentically with her and with greater transparency" or "I feel that it's her right to know" or "I'd like to reveal this secret so that I can draw her more deeply into my life" etc.) and put this at the top of the food chain with your own agendas, you can very easily be setting yourself up for disappointment and an impasse.

    At this juncture I'll also add that if your wife asks you any questions that may be difficult to answer (you're afraid of how she will react to your answers), it will better serve you to be honest with her than to lie...even if it leads to a backlash...at the very least, she will know that she can trust what you have to say and the two of you will be able to thrash things out amongst yourselves. But lie...and she picks up on it and you could so easily have shot yourself in the foot because no matter what you say, even if you're being honest, and it will be met with skepticism.
     
  16. biguy2738

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    Insecurity/Disempowerment
    I've already mentioned that your decision to come out to your wife will more than likely lead to her feeling insecure and disempowerment. Her insecurity will come from a place of having lost a lot of the "known" and therefore have no idea of how things stand to play out in the future. Her disempowerment will come from a place where she'll be acutely aware of how she doesn't have any control over the situation or you. Nothing that she says and does can stop you from having sex with men, if you've already decided that this is what you want. These two things can more than likely lead to her being angry with you and possibly attacking you personally. Scary and painful as this may be, you need to remind yourself of where it is coming from and to empathise with it.

    If you opt to respond to this reaction by trying to defend yourself or to retaliate, you won't only be treating the cause of her reaction but things can so easily deteriorate from there. The only way of helping her to move beyond these feelings will be to allow her to get things out of her system without attempting to stop it (by means of defending yourself or retaliation), to offer her empathy and to have a clear picture in your mind of how you can factor things into your approach that will offer her a sense of security and empowerment. You need to be willing to acknowledge that you're the cause of these two things being taken away from her and in light of this, it's your responsibility to restore them.

    I apologise for the length of this post and I realise that I've been extremely harsh and critical in my approach. However, to sugarcoat things or present things to you through rose tinted glasses would be unfair because I'd be setting yourself up for a very hard fall. Not all responses from one's partners are favorable and can sometimes lead to the deterioration of the relationship, however, in light of my constant exposure to situations like yours, I am able to tell you with confidence that if there's any way for you to prevent things from going downhill as well as preventing your wife to become a basketcase in the process, it would be what I've shared with you in this post.

    If you'd like to know more about my own journey and identify how I was able to put this into practice, you'll be able to do so through reading my blog. In truth, my decision to blog my bi journey came from my desire to help other bisexuals who found themselves in my shoes. I didn't want to sugarcoat things and I wanted for others to realise that most of what they go through are shared by other bisexuals as well, so I've attempted to make my blog as emotionally raw as possible. My entries to date end with my entering into the realm of having meaningful relationships with men, however, I have about two years' worth of catching up to do;something that I hope to do in the very near future.

    All of the best and safe travels!
     
  17. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Thanks so Much Bi Guy ! No problem with the length of your post (hehehe) it's very helpful and again presents another aspect of my dilemma well worth considering. I look forward to reading your blog entries and again, thanks a lot!
     
  18. biguy2738

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    It's only a pleasure, Jack_again. I'm always happy to help wherever I can.
    Best of luck and keep us posted. :smile:
     
  19. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Wow Bi Guy ! I responded to just the last part of your contribution before seeing the bulk of it here on the first page of this thread. Again - thanks so much. This is GREAT information, great things to consider. I really like the way that you gradually discussed with your wife your bisexuality and I feel that would be my approach. And thanks for the warning about full immediate disclosure that evidently rarely doesn't meet with disastrous annihilation. One thing that might be helpful to know is that I can't ever really see myself in a homosexual relationship, that is living with a man and sharing a life like that. I guess I am more in the "men who have sex with men" camp, if you have heard this term. Also, though I am in no way in a position to critique your wonderfully thought-out illustrations, I'm a bit ill at ease with the notion of gay/bi men being neccessarily feminine (e.g. prefers to cook than watch sports, share his girlyboy facets) There are loads of full-on gay men who are macho as all get out (and sports fans) and in my view there is nothing inherently homo about cooking! Please don't take offense. In all of your response this is only a minor detail. I also look forward to reading more about JR Little's 13 forms of bisexuality. Great, great stuff, Bi Guy, and I am immensely grateful to you for it.
     
  20. jack_again

    jack_again New Member

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    Marc - thank you very much for your sensitive response to my coming-out to the wife thread. I've been getting loads of great viewpoints and yours adds nourishing food for thought. Thanks so much. PS - On your profile you mention that you worked in porn. Would you mind sending a link to some of your work? Also, I would be very interested in learning how you initially got involved and your overall impressions and experiences in the field. Thanks so much again.
     
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