How would people OUTSIDE the US vote ?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by jumbo747jet, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. jumbo747jet

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,443
    Likes Received:
    146
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denmark
    I thought it might be interesting to see how people outside the US view US politics. Not only because we are outside the country, but also because we have access to other media (objective media), unlike most US citizens.
     
  2. Imported

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    56,713
    Likes Received:
    55
    YoungNHung19: This is an easy one...John Kerry, right? I mean after all he is going to get North Korea and France to help us with the war in Iraq when he is President, right? They must love him there. HAHAHAHAHA....or maybe they would vote Kerry because his billionaire wife outsources all of her companies jobs overseas....?
     
  3. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    1
    Given that Kerry is on record as favouring 'protectionist' trade policies, and Canada is the number one US trade partner, the fact that Canadians are overwhelmingly pro-Kerry (74% vs 19% according to a Canadian poll) is indicative of an extreme dislike of Bush's policies.

    Kerry is likely to 'hurt' Canadian economic interests, but its a small price to pay for some sanity on the planet-scale.
     
  4. KinkGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,976
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    southwest US

    That is such a lame argument. Does it not make sense, even in your mind, that an American global food processor and manufacturer would produce the food close to it's supply of raw ingredients and it's customers? And then return it's profits to America? There is just no way on God's green earth a company the size of Heinz could produce and ship everything they make and sell worldwide here. But, U.S. drug companies manufacturing drugs in other countries and selling them here at hugely inflated prices (much higher than in any other country) is ok by you? Guess it all depends on whether or not you are a Republican or a Democrat...or more still, a rush limbaugh worshipper.
     
  5. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bush advocates some protectionism, like on Canadian medicine. (Because we all know what a Third World hell hole Canada is.)
     
  6. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    It's sounding better all the time.
     
  7. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Just avoid British Columbia. At least unless you're a pedophile. If you are, British Columbia's the place to go. (Public schools in Vancouver were caught renting Indian kids off to a pedophile ring a couple years ago.)
     
  8. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Man, your people just can't catch a break! I'm not a pedophile, I like my young ones of legal voting age.
     
  9. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Well, Pine Ridge was auctioned off to the Catholics during the late 19th century.
     
  10. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Oh, surely you're not suggesting that there are any pedophiles in THAT illustrious organisation! As if the slavery weren't enough.....
     
  11. BobLeeSwagger

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    I object to the assertion that somehow other countries have more objective media than the United States does. All media sources have biases, whether they try to stifle them with impartiality or not. I find it especially ridiculous when I hear some people claim that the British media is somehow more fair than ours. Recently the Guardian published an editorial that basically longed for a John Wilkes Booth to come along to rid the world of President Bush. That's not journalism.

    The important thing is not that the media has to be impartial. It's that citizens need to get information from a variety of sources so they can understand issues from a range of perspectives and deveop an informed opinion. Many Americans -- and non-Americans -- do this. On the other hand, many people in all countries just listen to the sources they want to hear to confirm their worldview. Either way, we get the media outlets that we deserve.
     
  12. lacsap1

    lacsap1 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    202
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS/AMSTERDAM
    First of all, don't take it personal. The rest of the world does not hate you in particular, unless you are named Bush, Rumsfeld or Rice.

    It all started back with the 2000 Election debacle, when George W. Bush first hijacked his whole nation by threatening it with a massive Congressional and political disruption if he did not get the result he wanted (being sworn in). The whole Florida electoral fraud and the Supreme Court finally announcing that they appointed Bush Jr. as their new President, disregarding Al Gore's more than 500,000 vote difference that won him the popular vote nationwide lost Bush any legitimacy he could claim for himself. The whole world took this as an ill omen of things to come. Democracy had snapped. How was it possible that Americans had accepted that a semi-literate Conservative Texas governor whose only claim to fame was that his dad had been President (and appointed most of those judges in the Supreme Court) steal an election just like that?

    It was even worse when Bush Jr. selected his cabinet. Most of them were old veterans from his dad's administration and that of Ronald Reagan (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, et al). Bush Jr. even revived some old corpses, brought down when their corruption and far-right views made it necessary for the American government to distance itself from them. The outlook made some shudder. First thing off the bat, Bush Jr. starting cutting taxes benefiting the big corporations that funded his campaign, never mind the deficit. He also shredded most international treaties that bound America to international law, such as Kyoto, the International War Crimes Tribunal, the International Nuclear Arms Agreement and many more. Being the biggest country around had its privileges. America became unilateralist overnight. Bush Jr. turned America into the world's bully. And the world's economy sank like a stone.

    Then came 9-11. Everybody watched stunned and angry. Everybody understood that something big had happened and that things would never be the same. A lot of people from all around the world felt a deep sadness, they wanted to help and support Americans. They didn't think America deserved it.

    When America first went out to Afghanistan, there was a measure of international support. After all, the Taliban was a rouge government which didn't care much for human rights, international law and did have clear terrorist links. So the world wasn't that shocked when the US invaded Afghanistan. Then they noticed that the Americans did not have a clear-cut plan. The US labeled the Taliban and their supporters as "enemy combatants", an euphemism by which those captured by the American army where denied the basic Geneva Convention rights afforded to prisoners of war, including the right to public trial and humane treatment. Instead, those captured were sent to Guantamano, Cuba, where they pass their time restrained and getting cooked by the tropical heat. The world was outraged. America's response? Prop up a weak and ineffective puppet government and build a humongous oil pipeline.

    And then, one fine day George W. Bush woke up with the bright idea of invading Iraq and ousting Saddam Hussein. It didn't matter that Osama bin Laden and Hussein hated each other's guts, the US claimed that Iraq was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. More than a decade of weapons inspections and UN sanctioned economic embargoes had left Iraq with nothing more than a lot of heated rhetoric. The Bush administration claimed that they had WMD's (=weapons of mass destruction,=another new euphemism) and even had the capability of launching an attack into American soil. Iraq, Bush now famously claimed in his State of the Union Address, had even restarted their nuclear weapons program by trying to buy uranium from Niger.

    The Americans thought that the world would play along with them. After all, there was not much love for Saddam's regime after all. They were in for a surprise.

    The UN's Security Council was totally against a US-led invasion of Iraq, unless there was no doubt left that the Arab country had the alleged WMD's and had an intent to use it. The Americans, being caught with no more proof than Bush's word, resorted to lies, fake documents and propaganda. The last drop was when Bush, with total contempt for international law, decided to label the UN as ineffective and inconsequential, broke up with their traditional allies France and Germany and decided to invade Iraq on its own -with the help of his "coalition of the willing", made up mostly of British troops.

    And now you have the US stuck in Iraq, where lawlessness prevails and American troops die everyday. No weapons of mass destruction anywhere. Now the Bush administration is saying, along with Prime Minister Blair, that they went in to "liberate" Iraqis. As far as anybody knows, no one in Iraq wanted the US to come in, bomb them to oblivion and institute an occupation government. They didn't want to suffer up to 50,000 civilian casualties. They didn't want their cultural patrimony looted, nor their oil being auctioned to the highest bidder by the Americans. What happened during the Iraqi debacle, and is happening right now, is that the world is appalled by the Bush administration AND the attitude of Americans. This little invasion has been very costly to Americans in terms of freedom of speech -anybody questioning Bush is instantly labeled a traitor. Basic rights such as privacy, information, freedom of movement, freedom of association have gone down the drain. And the American's public response? They are backing Bush thinking that he is doing the right thing...

    It doesn't matter that he lied to them, flaunted fake intelligence, sent troops to die, killed thousands of civilians in Iraq, jailed an undisclosed number of people (some think that it borders on the thousands), did irreparable damage to the image of the United States around the world and won some new enemies along the way, sent the economy spiraling down like a downed bomber, and wasted the economic surplus that Clinton left him, tanking the US economy with an unprecedented deficit.

    But Americans are cheering Bush. They may even reelect him...

    That's why the world hates Americans. Everybody thinks they're stupid letting a man like George W. Bush rule them, everybody thinks they're idiots by electing a Republican Congress, giving Bush Jr. total freedom into enacting his and his cronies will. Everybody is scared that corporations write legislation in the US, and that there are no penalties for corporate crooks and murderers. In other times, the world would sit back and watch how someone like Bush Jr. got impeached (hey, they did impeach Clinton, and all he did was screw an intern). The world is worried that there is nobody who can stop Bush's mad quest for powerÂ…

    Dear Americans:

    Prove the whole world wrong. Let us know that you haven't fallen for all the propaganda this administration has been spewing, that you do think that the rest of the world matters, that you can't have someone like Bush concentrate all this power and use it against people who are left defenseless. America used to stand for a lot many great things. It's your turn to make it right again. And for the world to stop hating Americans and call you 'friends' again as so many people did not so long ago...


    Peace.
     
  13. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    An op-ed piece rarely is.
     
  14. Max

    Max New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    A defining moment in revealing the present US administration's attitude to the outside world, and thus very determinative vice versa: Kyoto.
     
  15. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    What about the ABM treaty?
     
  16. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Interesting how everyone thinks "I killed 10 000 gooks" Kerry is better. Blargh, I'm the unique vote in the poll.
     
  17. madame_zora

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    10,252
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Ohio
    Lascap, thanks for that detailed post! I think it interesting to know how the world outside views our situation, although I suspect I knew. I wish people would know how many of us don't support this war and really wish we had no part in it. I suspect there were a lot of German farmers who felt this way in WWII.

    Orca, I don't know what you meant about the 10,000 gooks. I hope Kerry didn't say that, but ANYTHING would have to be better than bush and an independant simply has no chance in hell of winning. I hope all who have the power to vote will cast it for the one replacement option we have.
     
  18. lacsap1

    lacsap1 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    202
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS/AMSTERDAM
    Thanks Madame.

    As state, don't take it personal. But it's really weird to see the polls as 50-50% with all Bush Jr has or hasn't done. But there was some good news last night:

    Mr Clinton, the comeback kid of U.S. politics, still has it. I probably don't have to say that this man is good and unbelievable strong. Looking healthy, but a bit thinner than usual after this bypass surgery but still "The miracle" of US politics.

    One of Clinton's laws of politics is this: If one candidate is trying to scare you and the other is trying to get you to think, if one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other is appealing to your hopes, you'd better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope," he said.

    Bush Jr, eat your heart out !!
     
  19. jonb

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2
    Actually, it was McCain who mentioned the 10,000 gooks. (Interestingly, if you've ever played mah jongg, those character tiles are technically called wan, which means "ten thousands".)

    McCain got the same treatment from the people behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
     
  20. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Personally, I wouldn't trust either, I dislike the way that foreigners (essentially) are being asked who they'd like, I mean, could you see India or Germany doing the same thing?

    If one is better than the other in NATIONAL policy, then fine. As for international policy, I'll believe it when I see it.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted