Hurting the ones you love.

nolbaby

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it seems to me that the completely obvious and simple solution to your problem of "I know I am not giving him nearly enough emotional support as he gives me" is SO GIVE HIM MORE SUPPORT, GENIUS!

I've been in relationships like this. And by "like this", I mean that 1 person is putting in WAAAY more effort than the other and 1 person is having to work 2x as hard at the relationship because the other is being immature and freaking out 1/2 the time. It isn't fair to give him less support than he gives you. Its very simple, just follow the golden rule. If you don't, you have no room to complain about anything.
 

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Passive-aggression is NOT constructive, nor is it helpful. It is a harsh and cruel way of treating others because it tends to destablilize. More times than not, it's used to punish others...but in a deceptive way because it's not upfront and blatant. The subtlety to it is what's so destablilizing because the receiver of this kind of treatment doesn't know what's going on, if they've done something wrong etc. They are left second guessing themselves and the situation that they are confronted with. So there's NOTHING positive about this.

The fact that aggression is being mentioned ought to tell you what it's all about. Bear in mind that there's a big difference between being assertive and being aggressive.

...I'm just saying....

Truth hurts. Even if we don't fully understand it.

I just ended a friendship (that had the potential of being something more once upon a time) all because of continuously destructive passive-aggressive behaviour. It's usually not the big issues (although they are a part of it) that contribute so much as the small ones. The behaviour does not match the person's words and when you confront them about it they claim ignorance and would never do anything to harm you which leaves you in utter confusion. They control the situation by not giving what you ask but in a roundabout way. You'll ask, they say yes, they won't do it. So you ask about it again, they say <insert excuse here> and still won't do it. This may continue until your normally calm self grows weary, frustrated, and irritated whereas you now confront them because you've had enough of their shit and lose your cool. They will, 1) appear surprised and wonder aloud why you're upset (creating a scenario where you look like the irrational person), or 2) appear surprised, pretend to realise what they've done, apologise profusely....and then do it all over again. And again.

That's just one example of what can happen. This is how they exert control in a relationship. As bigguy mentioned, the behaviour is indeed destructive (to the person and others in their lives) and causes others to wonder if they've gone off the deep end. It will certainly make you feel as though you have.
 

helgaleena

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I must confess, in order to help the discussion here, that I, moi, helgaleena, have been a passive-agressive person at horrid inexcusable times in my life. I am not proud and it was a symptom of how absolutely nose deep in denial I was.

I would do the very thing described, of saying I would and then not, again and again. Why? I thought a 'good' person should do that thing, even for somebody who was being horrible to me constantly and let me down and continually only took took took. Soon I found I could promise in all sincerity to do a dozen things and then not a single one be carried out, all the time feeling absolutely rotten about procrastination.

The breakthrough was being confronted. I had to realize that Meaning to do a thing and Not Getting Around to a thing were prevarications for truth: I did not want to do it and my unconscious was keeping me from doing it. I had to admit TO MYSELF that I didn't want to, and that I could still be a worthwhile and good and truthful person only if I was honest to a person I was hurting and blessedly ignoring them henceforth.

It was very hard because I had to realize the importance of being selfish and not lying to myself. Myself lives with me and that person does not.
 
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bgr_thn_avrg

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Have you considered that maybe you don't value him because he is giving it away to you? Maybe you are someone who needs a conflict, some drama to make it feel like something worth putting more into. You say you are having anxiety issues, which are commonly associated with low self esteem/insecurity issues. The dramatic struggle is often one of the only ways someone in that position can find the value factor in a situation. The anxiety and insecurities can cause you to miss-judge or not have the correct ruler to measure the situation by. Like, "I know he is a great guy-intillectual. But I can't find the value in him and the relationship-emotional." This is an issue with many many people in today's society. In result you may be more interested in the "exciting" or "more interesting" situations. Maybe someone who is an asshole or pushes your buttons more, which creates more traction for you to work with. Sometimes it is the best sex or most intense relationship in that situation, and sometimes we feel we need that. But make sure you aren't feeding your insecurities and building habits and views for the future that will lead to continued failure. If you "think" this guy will be amazing for someone, then it is because you think he really could be an amazing guy for you. Maybe taking a sledge hammer to your inner self and facing the hard truths and demons within can help you find the value in him
 

SpoiledPrincess

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You're still together, maybe it's you who feels he needs more emotional support and not him?

Marriage isn't tit for tat, you have to give me this exact amount of support and I have to give you the exact same amount in return.

Relax.
 

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First it is good to see all the input that the thread has brought so far. Second I apologize for the vagueness of my original post. The biggest problem is that when I started this thread I was feeling extremely overwhelm and unable to figure out a way to let Ed know how much he means to me.

This thread has open futhur personal discussion between myself and Ed. He is such a loving man and I do appreciate everything he does for me. I just feel like I wasn't giving him what he deserves. I have since learned that yes I do give him alot and he lets me know when he is disappointed as well as he accepts my flaws.

There has been some conflict on this thread I feel needs to be addressed. As far as a post stating I don't deserve him. That poster was just upset because she would love to have someone like Ed in her life and felt I didn't appreciate what I have. Why be angry with her for expression her fustration. I responded to her and left it alone. I have seen others respond to her as well, they said what they felt necessary.

Yes I got upset with the miss use of passive aggressive. My mom is passive aggressive and I have no tolerance for that sort of behavior. If my husband was that way we would not be together. He does express his fustration and I have always known when I have upset him.

Yes I am dealing with Manic Depression and High Anxioty, I have dealt with this since I was fifteen years old. Thankfully I have had a wonderfully supportive Father. My dad even did his best to give Ed some advice about my mental state. I have gone to a few counselors who have done nothing but fustrate me. Ed has found medical website that have given me more help then them.

My main problem now is that I don't feel very helpful to anyone. Trying to get out of bed is a feet all on it's own. I took a volunteer job where I take horses out every morning and there are mornings I struggle to do that. It fustrates me because this isn't who I am normally and I don't like it.
 

Ed69

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You're still together, maybe it's you who feels he needs more emotional support and not him?QUOTE]

That's it in a nutshell!She gives what I need but does not seem to believe it could be that simple.:confused:

I also think Zoe might be using the term incorrectly - she says above that her familly support her 'passive-agressively' - there is no such thing as passive-aggressive support. They may be supporting her passively, keeping quiet, allowing her to come to them - and that may well be what Ed is doing with Lisa - but there is no aggression in there whatsoever.

Having posted on this forum with Ed for a number of years I can certainly say, about his internet persona at least, there is nothing passive about his aggression. When he wants to tell someone he's unhappy he's extremely active about it - I mean that in a good way, he's upfront and honest. I strongly suspect he's the same in person.

In Zoe's defence though, reading her second post, her intentions in her first post were good.

Yes I am the quiet man that is allowing her to come to me instead of getting in her face about it(tried that and it failed badly).And you're right about me there is nothing passive about me here or in real life.I wish more people thought that part of me was a good thing.

In short,thanks for all the input(even you Zoe).It has been a big help in getting my girl to understand that she is doing just fine and I'm ok.Hey it's been 18 years we've been together!Life is fluid it moves and changes,what won't change is my love for her,I gave my word"Till death do us part".


Thanks again all!:smile:
 
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biguy2738

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First off, Lisa and Ed, please forgive my ignorance? I didn't realise that you guys are married. :redface:

Secondly, and most importantly, you guys are such a beautiful and amazing couple. Thank you for allowing us to bear witness to your relationship, it's a heartwarming privilege.

Lisa:

I don't think that it's necessary for you to apologise for the vagueness of your original post. I sensed that you were writing with your heart and not from your head ie you were writing from your emotions and not from a place that dispensed facts. That's a gift, actually because you offered us the gift of your emotions and vulnerability. Soooooooo LOL :wink:

I don't think that we're always aware of the exchange of gifts that takes place in our interpersonal relationships with others. I'll use you and Ed as an example. You're aware of the gifts that Ed gives you on a daily basis...but have you considered that when you receive his gifts, you are gifting him in return? (and vice versa). Not only does your willingness to accept his gifts affirm the pride of place that you have given him in his life, but you're gifting him with feelings of happiness and satisfaction through allowing him to be a bearer of gifts (and vice versa). I think that if you explore what his (or your) experience would be if such moments of gifting were to be denied, you'd get the gist of what I am on about.

The way that you came under attack was foolish. How can someone draw conclusions about you and your approach in your marriage when your post was vague? I suspect that it was nothing more than projection; that they were talking about themselves or their own personal experiences but it was projected on you. Not your problem...

When it comes to your mentioning the Manic Depression and High Anxiety... The area that I will touch on will be the High Anxiety that you're dealing with. I think that the first thing that you need to be aware of, is that it's been part of your reality for 22 years...so it will take about 22 years to move beyond it fully. Don't be overwhelmed by what I'm saying because you'll get over the worst before it...just don't place unrealistic expectations on yourself or put yourself under undue pressure because it will only add to your anxiety.

You may want to consider having an "Anxiety Journal". Everytime that you have an anxiety attack, to record the experience (either immediately if possible, or as soon as possible). Go into as much detail as possible (in the instance of you recording the experience after the fact, you may want to include how you responded to/dealt with the situation/experience...but to include questions like: "Where is this coming from? What has triggered it? Have there been other times where it's been triggered by the same thing?" (Now you'll be able to identify if there are specific triggers...which will help you to deal with things). From there, the following questions are important because they will encourage you to move from taking things at face value, to digging beneath the surface until you identify the root cause: "Why am I experiencing anxiety? Why has this situation etc triggered this reaction? etc" Ask as many "why" questions as possible. From there, the last question would be "Is there anything else?" Then try to answer these questions in as much detail as possible. Write the first things that come to mind...before trying to intellectualise them or understand your answers.

It's tedious and I think that you'll want to get hold of me and bitchslap me into next week....BUT.... LOL. The reason why I'm making this suggestion is twofold: Firstly, not only will it enable you to explore the experience and attempt to better understand where it's coming from, but you will be processing the experience twice...in your mind and then in writing. Once things are integrated into our awareness, we are empowered to approach things differently. The second reason is because it will force you to stop and evaluate things before you react to it. Your normal response has become a habit to some degree, so it's a way of challenging that habit. Ultimately, you'll be training your mind to process and approach the situation differently, but in a way that will leave you with a sense of being empowered to make informed choices on how you're going to respond to the experience.

From now on, when you refer to the High Anxiety, try to express it in this way: "I am getting my high anxiety under control" or "I am in the process of overcoming high anxiety". (repeat after me LOL :biggrin1:) The premise is slightly different...but the affirmation is worlds apart. It's all about subconscious affirmations...it will be more constructive to affirm your ability to overcome it as opposed to affirm it's presence in your life.

I may be speaking out of turn (because I'm making assumptions) and if I am, please forgive me? I'm sorry to hear that your going to counselors in the past has been a waste of time. I'm not suggesting that you haven't done this or that you're unaware of it...I'm just saying it to make sure that you are aware of it... I don't think that patients are aware of just how much power they have, when it comes to therapy or counselling. There's the tendency to find a therapist/counselor without considering that he/she is entitled to interview their prospective therapist. Don't be afraid to phone their rooms and ask to speak to him/her. As "him" about his experience, do the majority of his patients see him "full term" etc. Note how you feel when you talk to him. Do you feel at ease or uncomfortable etc.? If you do decide to see him, treat your first session as the final part of the interview process. What kind of approach did he have? Did you feel as if you're in a safe and non-judgemental environment? Do you see him as a "doctor" or as a friend/objective sounding board? Pay attention to your emotions throughout the session. Note the way that you relate with him. At the end of your session, did you feel as if he "got" you; did you feel accepted and understood? ...because within the first 15-20 minutes, you ought to have an impression of being understood, if he is best suited for you. (note that I was lazy and just talked about "he" as opposed to "he/she")

Be gentle with yourself because the more that you brood over stuff or become frustrated over things, the more anxious you'll become.

Ed:

Just one thing: I don't think that your patience and understanding is admirable. Once again, I think that the two of you make a wonderful couple. (as you can see, I don't have much input to offer you. :smile:)

All in all, the two of you remind me of this poem: The Invitation

All of the best!
 

Ed69

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Ed:

Just one thing: I don't think that your patience and understanding is admirable. Once again, I think that the two of you make a wonderful couple. (as you can see, I don't have much input to offer you. :smile:)

All in all, the two of you remind me of this poem: The Invitation

All of the best!


You forget you are talking to a couple of almost 19 years.My/Our patience and understanding is the only thing that has made our relationship work this long.So no you have nothing to offer me or us in your ignorance.You and all the other PHD's !So your ideas will most likely go in the shit can with all the others we can't use.
 

biguy2738

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Just one thing: I think that your patience and understanding is admirable. Once again, I think that the two of you make a wonderful couple. (as you can see, I don't have much input to offer you. :smile:)

You forget you are talking to a couple of almost 19 years.My/Our patience and understanding is the only thing that has made our relationship work this long.So no you have nothing to offer me or us in your ignorance.You and all the other PHD's !So your ideas will most likely go in the shit can with all the others we can't use.
Ed:

In all honesty, I am mortified. It was a mistype on my part and I cannot begin to apologise enough. It was a long post and my brain was frazzled.

I was trying to say that the two of you make a beautiful couple; that you clearly compliment each other and your love is an example for the rest of us....most certainly for me.

I am truly sorry. Words cannot begin to express my embarrassment and how absolutely horrible I feel right now. I was an honest mistake but I still cannot ignore the negative impact that it had on the two of you; what was intended to be constructive and encouraging to the two of you wasn't because of my error.

I can only apologise to the two of you and hope that the ground opens up and swallows me.

All of the best!
 

Ed69

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Thats ok, just call me "quick draw mcgraw" on this one.What you had to say for Lisa was in my view spot on and a very good starting point for both of us.Much more help than all the doctors we've been to!

So don't let the ground swallow you,please1
 

sassy Lisa

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First off, Lisa and Ed, please forgive my ignorance? I didn't realise that you guys are married. :redface:

Secondly, and most importantly, you guys are such a beautiful and amazing couple. Thank you for allowing us to bear witness to your relationship, it's a heartwarming privilege.

Lisa:

I don't think that it's necessary for you to apologise for the vagueness of your original post. I sensed that you were writing with your heart and not from your head ie you were writing from your emotions and not from a place that dispensed facts. That's a gift, actually because you offered us the gift of your emotions and vulnerability. Soooooooo LOL :wink:

I don't think that we're always aware of the exchange of gifts that takes place in our interpersonal relationships with others. I'll use you and Ed as an example. You're aware of the gifts that Ed gives you on a daily basis...but have you considered that when you receive his gifts, you are gifting him in return? (and vice versa). Not only does your willingness to accept his gifts affirm the pride of place that you have given him in his life, but you're gifting him with feelings of happiness and satisfaction through allowing him to be a bearer of gifts (and vice versa). I think that if you explore what his (or your) experience would be if such moments of gifting were to be denied, you'd get the gist of what I am on about.

The way that you came under attack was foolish. How can someone draw conclusions about you and your approach in your marriage when your post was vague? I suspect that it was nothing more than projection; that they were talking about themselves or their own personal experiences but it was projected on you. Not your problem...

When it comes to your mentioning the Manic Depression and High Anxiety... The area that I will touch on will be the High Anxiety that you're dealing with. I think that the first thing that you need to be aware of, is that it's been part of your reality for 22 years...so it will take about 22 years to move beyond it fully. Don't be overwhelmed by what I'm saying because you'll get over the worst before it...just don't place unrealistic expectations on yourself or put yourself under undue pressure because it will only add to your anxiety.

You may want to consider having an "Anxiety Journal". Everytime that you have an anxiety attack, to record the experience (either immediately if possible, or as soon as possible). Go into as much detail as possible (in the instance of you recording the experience after the fact, you may want to include how you responded to/dealt with the situation/experience...but to include questions like: "Where is this coming from? What has triggered it? Have there been other times where it's been triggered by the same thing?" (Now you'll be able to identify if there are specific triggers...which will help you to deal with things). From there, the following questions are important because they will encourage you to move from taking things at face value, to digging beneath the surface until you identify the root cause: "Why am I experiencing anxiety? Why has this situation etc triggered this reaction? etc" Ask as many "why" questions as possible. From there, the last question would be "Is there anything else?" Then try to answer these questions in as much detail as possible. Write the first things that come to mind...before trying to intellectualise them or understand your answers.

It's tedious and I think that you'll want to get hold of me and bitchslap me into next week....BUT.... LOL. The reason why I'm making this suggestion is twofold: Firstly, not only will it enable you to explore the experience and attempt to better understand where it's coming from, but you will be processing the experience twice...in your mind and then in writing. Once things are integrated into our awareness, we are empowered to approach things differently. The second reason is because it will force you to stop and evaluate things before you react to it. Your normal response has become a habit to some degree, so it's a way of challenging that habit. Ultimately, you'll be training your mind to process and approach the situation differently, but in a way that will leave you with a sense of being empowered to make informed choices on how you're going to respond to the experience.

From now on, when you refer to the High Anxiety, try to express it in this way: "I am getting my high anxiety under control" or "I am in the process of overcoming high anxiety". (repeat after me LOL :biggrin1:) The premise is slightly different...but the affirmation is worlds apart. It's all about subconscious affirmations...it will be more constructive to affirm your ability to overcome it as opposed to affirm it's presence in your life.

I may be speaking out of turn (because I'm making assumptions) and if I am, please forgive me? I'm sorry to hear that your going to counselors in the past has been a waste of time. I'm not suggesting that you haven't done this or that you're unaware of it...I'm just saying it to make sure that you are aware of it... I don't think that patients are aware of just how much power they have, when it comes to therapy or counselling. There's the tendency to find a therapist/counselor without considering that he/she is entitled to interview their prospective therapist. Don't be afraid to phone their rooms and ask to speak to him/her. As "him" about his experience, do the majority of his patients see him "full term" etc. Note how you feel when you talk to him. Do you feel at ease or uncomfortable etc.? If you do decide to see him, treat your first session as the final part of the interview process. What kind of approach did he have? Did you feel as if you're in a safe and non-judgemental environment? Do you see him as a "doctor" or as a friend/objective sounding board? Pay attention to your emotions throughout the session. Note the way that you relate with him. At the end of your session, did you feel as if he "got" you; did you feel accepted and understood? ...because within the first 15-20 minutes, you ought to have an impression of being understood, if he is best suited for you. (note that I was lazy and just talked about "he" as opposed to "he/she")

Be gentle with yourself because the more that you brood over stuff or become frustrated over things, the more anxious you'll become.

Ed:

Just one thing: I don't think that your patience and understanding is admirable. Once again, I think that the two of you make a wonderful couple. (as you can see, I don't have much input to offer you. :smile:)

All in all, the two of you remind me of this poem: The Invitation

All of the best!
Okay it has been a week and gues what I say "THANK YOU" your suggestions are wonderful and the note or dairy is something I already do. I apprecieate every thing you have said and thank you for the advice.