I cant be the only one...

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by madame_zora, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. madame_zora

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    Well, we're headed into four years of the most ignorant and repressive government most of us will have seen in our lifetimes. It saddens me more than I can express, I've been near crying most of the day. The fact that even half of the country feel this way makes me feel filthy, how can hate win out over love? I'm not gay, but I don't see this as a gay-only issue, it's a human rights issue. Anyone retarded enough to think this won't affect us all is living in extreme denial. Once we vote away our civil rights, they might eventually affect something that DOES affect you personally! I hope this bites every right-winger hard in the ass, and soon. I no longer care how bad it gets here, I am stepping back and laughing at the whole mess. I tried in earnest to do my part, but ignorance triumphed over intelligence, repression over freedom, conformity over individualism, and we were too freaking lazy to get more than 51% of the population to the polls. I don't know how to feel about that other than sad.

    Boy howdy, isn't it inspiring to know we can teach our men to blow someone's head off but not have compassion for each other? How very Christian......

    Jesus never advocated guns or war, how did his message ever get so perverted?
     
  2. Imported

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    OneEyedCat:
     
  3. B_black10inches

    B_black10inches New Member

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    Well, this is not a big surprise for me. There has been prejudice and hate in this country by ignorant folks for centuries. Maybe it's an improvement that just over 50% are in this category now. My daddy used to say that about 10% of the population is conscious. The rest are in a fog. That number seems to be rising.

    But I still felt bad about the election too.
     
  4. hungthick

    hungthick New Member

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    I cannot believe we have another 4 years of Bush!! We will all be affected by his lack of compassion for the poorest in our country and for the oldest. I am not a political person but i dont have to be a hen to recognize a bad egg either.

    As far as gay marriages are concerned i have never been in favor of them. I do support gay couple rights for insurance reasons and medical emergencies though. I might change my views in the future but for now i think gay people are reaching for too much and should take smaller steps. i also believe all influential gay people should come out of the closet to make others aware that they are just like everyone else.
     
  5. BobLeeSwagger

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    Try not to worry about it. There&#39;s a special place in hell (if there is such a place) for people who pander to homophobes while claiming they love their gay daughter. And there are a LOT of Republicans out there with gay children. They&#39;ve either ostracized their own family members or are ashamed of their own party. And they say that&#39;s pro-family? <_<

    My strong feeling is that the gay rights movement is moving just a little too fast for a lot of people. Ten years ago no state had anything close to domestic partnership or civil union laws for homosexuals. Now many states have them. California&#39;s are more extensive in some ways than Vermont&#39;s, even though it&#39;s not called a "civil union." Gays are in mainstream culture more than they&#39;ve ever been before. Americans are getting more tolerant and accepting of homosexuals all the time and I&#39;m convinced that gay marriage will be legal in at least some states within the next 10 years.

    Granted, justice delayed is still justice denied. But in the long-term, I think gay rights is going in a positive direction. To someone living in rural Kansas, gay people might seem weird and foreign and as far as they know, they don&#39;t think they&#39;ve seen one before. But over time, the more gay people they meet, the less they&#39;ll be bothered by it. Eventually, most people won&#39;t be bothered by it at all. And someday, gay-bashing will be just as politically incorrect as a racial slur. It takes time to convince 300 million people of something, even if it&#39;s right.
     
  6. KinkGuy

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    I am a member of both Human Right Campaign and National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. Neither group had ANY proposed legislation, escalated lobby efforts or proposals pending or being presented before Congress. Both groups fell back and went to work advocating and focusing on the state and local level the minute the right wing took control of the house, senate and white house in 2000. WE didn&#39;t make "Gay Marriage" an issue. From the moment gw took the presidency, we KNEW what we were up against. WE didn&#39;t make this a national issue. WE have ALWAYS believed it was a states right issue to be resolved and addressed from the ground up and hopefully, some day effecting real change. To satisfy the far, far right, the conservative hate mongers and fundamentalist exclusionists, gw and company MADE IT AN ISSUE. WE have never really wanted more than the basic civil and human rights afforded everyone else in this country. The whole Gay marriage ban was a pay off to the zealots in return for their money and their votes. I fear we "ain&#39;t seen nothin&#39; yet ya&#39;ll." This may all mean more to those who will, at some point under this dictatorship, have THEIR RIGHTS trampled and marginalized.
     
  7. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    It&#39;s amazing how things have moved so fast, but personally... I ain&#39;t getting married anyway. But I can understand people who&#39;d want to.

    I can understand that people may be opposed, but there&#39;s opposition, and there&#39;s "KILL THE FUCKERS&#33;" Now those are the people to fear.
     
  8. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    I&#39;ve read each of the posts in this topic and waded through a lot of what alwaysthere found on the IMDB site, only from the other side of the fence: hate, vitreol, finger-pointing and, above all, intolerance.

    When was it written that the Left doesn&#39;t have to be tolerant of the Right? Is it, truly, one-sided because of the Left&#39;s self-appointed Righteousness?

    Come on, guys, I&#39;m not bashing. I&#39;m trying to shake some of you into some kind of common sense.

    You WILL NOT get your way, indeed your needs, by pointing at Bush, Cheney, Falwell, or a holy roller farmer in Kansas (or Virginia or Arkansas, etc.) and blaming them for your ills.

    Shake off your pity and DO something constructive to make sure that your voices are heard - and not merely heard complaining.

    As a conservative who will probably oppose you at most every turn I nevertheless hope you&#39;ll stop the pouting and become a movement that more folks will sympathize with (and possibly decide to join.)

    I&#39;ve posted this in the hopes of getting some positive reaction, knowing full well that I&#39;ve set myself up for bashing, name-calling and intolerance. How many of us will get our noses bloodied for trying to meet and talk and find common ground?
     
  9. txquis

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    I never reply to threads like this,
    but I feel I can express my thoughts without arrogance.

    I dont know how else to make my voice heard except by voting.
    I did that.

    Denial and justification cannot change the fact
    that there *is* hatred and intolerance in our American Society
    against homosexuals (and oh so many more groups as well).
    It is also a fact that politicians, presidents and other citizens
    out there hate and do not tolerate
    the group I am a member of.

    So, how am i to be heard? I&#39;ll tell you:

    I start with my friends, and my family.
    I am the "face" of homosexuality to them.
    And maybe even to a few of my online friends....maybe some that
    are here...
    And I am a model citizen, son, friend, and coworker
    and human being.
    They know it.

    To my small circle I am not "those people"....
    and certainly not "those immoral people"....
    I am Jeff.
    I matter.
    I count.

    That is what is important.
    And it helps ease the sting a bit.
     
  10. jonb

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    When was the last time the Left poured kerosene over a guy? Now, the only time I&#39;ll pay &#036;2 for gas is to pour it over SUVs, but I&#39;m still not killing anyone.
     
  11. B_RoysToy

    B_RoysToy New Member

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    WOW, I am among loving, caring, broad-minded people. Most of this thread&#39;s posts are heart wrenching, reasoned revelations which give me honor to be associated with you guys (and this, of course, includes both sexes) Patience, fortitude and love will prevail, my friends. God&#39;s force be with you&#33;
     
  12. Imported

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    gwinea2000:

    When was the last time the Right decided the best way to bring about change was to organize a destructive mob and "protest" in the streets?

    Both sides have their flaws. But right now, the Left is embarassing themselves with their name-calling, hate-spewing, generalizing, and overall bitterness. I have never seen EITHER party in such a confused state, completely lacking a coherent sense of direction and cause.

    Living in SF, I am constantly in contact with the most devoted strains of the Left. And you know what? Very few are willing to converse in any civilized manner. Most prefer to talk AT you, to preach and label and accuse and vent. What good does this do? The close-mindedness is awe-inspiring, and the rhetoric used to back up the arguments is usually laughable.

    Though I certainly lean farther Right than Left, I am a far cry from the ignorant, prejudiced, bloodthirsty redneck you try to characterize me as. But you know what? When you seek to label me as such, you&#39;re being what you claim to despise. The only post containing any wisdom in this thread is Pecker&#39;s. Hate doesn&#39;t erase hate. Ignorance doesn&#39;t erase ignorance.

    Pot, meet the kettle.
     
  13. GottaBigOne

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    I am in the middle of this issue for many reasons. One of them being that I am not gay, and don&#39;t know what its like to be gay, or discriminated against for being gay.

    IMHO I don&#39;t think the government has any right whatsoever to endorse any form of marriage. Marriage, or matrimony is a religious institution and should not be dealt with by the United States government, the seperation of church and state is fundemental in safegaurding all of our civil liberties. When the government endorses one type of religion or one type of religious practice, then the supression of alternative "religions" is sure to follow. This may not be the case today with this issue, but just think about the mormons. In their religion it is not only possible to marry more than one person, but it is highly recommended. These people are being discriminated against because the governemnt only endorses the marriage concepts of a couple of religions. Since they don&#39;t also endorse all religious practices, this is where the discrimination lies. And that is why the government shouldn&#39;t get involved with reigion at all because it is near impossible to give equal treatment to all religions, because most religions have very differing views.

    The solution seems to be Civil Unions for all, and let the religions sort out all the other crap. Let enyone who wants to enter into a partnership for legal reasons do so, and if they want to get "married" in a church or synagogue, or mosk, or whatever then let them. It really irks me whenever I go to a wedding (I&#39;m a wedding photographers assistant so I see alot) and hear the priest or rabbi say "By the power vested in me by the state of New York..." Religious leaders should not be invoking any sort of state power.

    Some would say that if there were only civil unions and no legal marriage then "the people" would not benefit from all this and the only thing that would happen would be people wanting to reap the benefits of tax deductions and everything else that comes along with civil unions. The government only recognizes marriage because it serves the purpose of promoting the family which is a vital part of any society. This i agree with, although I think that it is not its only purpose. It strengthens communities and relationships, and helps stabilize society with or without children. If they want to give tax credits to those with children then let them do so, I think it would be a good idea. But punishing some of those relationships that don&#39;t ultimately rear children is wrong, especially when right now a heterosexual couple can enjoy the benefits of marriage without having children. The argument that gays can&#39;t get united because they dont have children is moot when sterile heteros are allowed to wed.

    Some gay people might say that it won&#39;t be equal if gays aren&#39;t given the same rights as heteros in naming what they can do "marriage" but this is an issue to take up with your religious institutions and not the governemt. The government cannot and should not change the nature of any religious practice, that would be a violation of the first ammendment to the bill of rights.

    If the governement doesnt deal with religious matters at all, and gives equal treatment to all in granting the ability to creat "families" then they argument for calling it marriage has to be taken up with the church, and synogogue, which I doubt would prevail.

    Pecker: I myself don&#39;t think tolerance is such a good thing either. There are lot of things I do not tolerate, but respect. theres a difference. If we tolerated everything, then we&#39;d have to tolerate murder, which is not a smart thing to do.
     
  14. Imported

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    BetterThanAverage: Madame_Zora&#39;s post reminded me of one of my favorite quotes:

    &#39;First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.&#39;
    -Pastor Martin Niemoller

    I agree with txquis. Besides being a member of the HRC, the ACLU, etc., the most important thing I can do is just to be "the face of homosexuality." I&#39;m not scary. I have a stable, healthy relationship. I give back to my community. I pay taxes, I work, I volunteer, I&#39;m just me. And I&#39;m openly gay. I&#39;m not shoving it in people&#39;s faces. I&#39;m not trying to impose my lifestyle on anyone else. God knows I&#39;m not trying to "recruit" anyone. My goal is to have people at least think when they go into a voting booth and vote to take away or deny rights to gays and lesbians "I&#39;m voting against Mark" instead of "I&#39;m voting against THEM." Whether it makes a difference or not, I don&#39;t know. I think it does.

    As for gwinea, I&#39;m sorry, but your argument is falling on deaf ears. The right has their right to their beliefs and opinions. When those beliefs and opinions start denying basic human rights to another group of people, including me, they forfeit the moral high ground. They&#39;re just being hate mongers. Me having the right to visit my partner in the hospital DOES NOT THREATEN ANYONE. Prove to me otherwise. I&#39;m happy to converse about it. But usually the right tries to throw the Bible in my face and, frankly, the Bible has no place in a political debate.

    As far as destructive protests in the streets, how about at every gay rights festival and parade in America in the last 25 years? How about standing on school steps with rifles barring segregation? I could go on, but you get the idea.

    It&#39;s great to see so much support from so many of our "straight" friends on the board. I&#39;m very lucky that I&#39;m in California. I don&#39;t think the rights I have will ever be taken away.

    I don&#39;t know what the answer is. I only have more questions. Why do they hate me is foremost in my mind. All I can do is take my sadness and keep plugging along, being the best person I can be, and trying to help the cause wherever I can.
     
  15. Imported

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    gwinea2000:
    My &#39;argument&#39; isn&#39;t an argument -- it&#39;s an observation. I am fully in favor of gay marriage. I believe it is an issue completely separate from the government and that they should have NO say in what the definition of marriage is. (I also believe it will be a non-issue in several years. The rest of the country is just a bit behind on the issue, as they were with the issue of race several decades ago.)

    But that wasn&#39;t the point of my post. My point is that most Liberals (not all) have chosen to drop reason and common sense in favor of a type of hysterical "the sky is falling" lunacy. I have been VERY critical of the "Us vs. Them" mentality perpetuated by Bush and his administration. However, this is EXACTLY the tactic that the Liberal public has decided to embrace.

    I am NOT posting this as a Republican speaking to Democrats. I am an Independent who leans Right (primarily on fiscal matters.) I am posting this as a citizen of this country and this world, and as a person who is scared by the destructive and dividing behavior he is seeing on BOTH sides.

    As for the gay rights festivals and barrings of segregation, those aren&#39;t examples of Republicans violently demonstrating in the streets. They are examples of the government using an unnecessarily strong and brutal hand to slap at society. In both cases, the &#39;powers that be&#39; have been both Conservative and Liberal.
     
  16. Imported

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    OneEyedCat:
    -- OEC -- I don&#39;t intend to bash. The key is that we are all equal under the law and are able to exercise our freedoms.



    One Eyed Cat
     
  17. Imported

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    BetterThanAverage:
    I respectfully disagree, unless you call Focus on the Family and like groups "the government." As for violently demonstrating in the streets, perhaps you&#39;ve never been hit on the temple by a bottle thrown by someone waving a "God Hates Fags" sign, but I have. Tell me he wasn&#39;t a Republican. You know he was as well as I do. That&#39;s Republicans violently protesting in the street. No? Don&#39;t think those groups are "official" Republicans? Try some of the links on the RNC.com Links page. American Values is particularly charming. And I didn&#39;t mean to go all historical on you, but the RNC opposed integration from the get go. I know that was a long time ago, but it was in my lifetime. Also, take a look at the video of who was "violently protesting" at the Secretary of State&#39;s office and the courthouse in Florida in 2000. If you look, you&#39;ll see a who&#39;s who of RNC staffers pounding on doors, pushing and shoving people who were trying to get in to or out of the buildings, etc. Do Democrats do that also? Absolutely. But don&#39;t tell me that Republicans don&#39;t. I have a one-inch scar on my head that says otherwise.
     
  18. Imported

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    gwinea2000:


    I in no way condone the crazy and violent behavior of ANYONE, regardless of political affiliation. I realize there are some right-wing groups that are downright SCARY, especially when religion is involved. I guess my take is biased a bit since, living in a liberal city, (San Francisco) I&#39;ve seen too many protests become destructive for no reason other than to be destructive. I&#39;ll rescind my comment about it being limited to Liberals. The violence perpetuated by whites in the South crossed party lines, though. They could not be labeled Democratic or Conservative. Regardless.....these types of people bewilder me :wacko: . Peace to you and yours.
     
  19. Imported

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    BetterThanAverage:
    [stepping off soap box, at least momentarily] Back at ya. Sorry I got a little heated there. You&#39;re one of the good guys, and I know that. I guess I hate Democrat bashing about as much as you hate Republican bashing. Lesson learned.

    Truly, I DO know that all Republicans aren&#39;t hate-mongering, gay-bashing jerks. And I also know that some Democrats are hate-mongering, Christian-bashing jerks. Most of us, though, land somewhere in the middle, I think. I think that the government belongs out of marriage, though.

    It&#39;s the word that&#39;s making people crazy and, after all, it&#39;s just a word. I don&#39;t care what my relationship is called, as long as it&#39;s equal to everyone else&#39;s relationship. Bottom line, just give me truly equal rights, and I&#39;ll shut the hell up (oh, and please stop hitting me in the head with bottles while you&#39;re at it).
     
  20. mindseye

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    You say you&#39;ve "set yourself up" for some bashing, so here&#39;s mine. That was the most odious, execrable post I&#39;ve ever seen come from your keyboard.
     
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