I cant be the only one...
- Thread starter madame_zora
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3XL:
It's "sieg heil" - In German s's sound like z's and z's sound like English s's.
Also, in any ie/ei combination pronounce the last letter.
The ie is "e"
and ei is "i"
The one great thing about German is that the phonetics are very consistant.
It's "sieg heil" - In German s's sound like z's and z's sound like English s's.
Also, in any ie/ei combination pronounce the last letter.
The ie is "e"
and ei is "i"
The one great thing about German is that the phonetics are very consistant.
- jonb,
Marriage should be left up to the church, and it would've been, had the states allowed gay marriage.Originally posted by fireman57@Nov 4 2004, 07:13 PM
I actually voted for Bush...I went against the suggestion of my union (the IAFF) and chose to vote for someone that I thought was the better choice. That was my opinion and I voted that way. People agree (apparently the majority) and people disagree...that's one of the foundations of our great nation.
On the subject of Gay Marriage. I think that it's a total waste of time and effort for our government to be even considering one way or the other on this. My opinion is that this is and should be a choice of the state and not the federal government. Additionally, I think that this should apply to only things like benifits, and protections for same sex couples. As for the actual term of "marriage", I think that should be left to the church. My religious beliefs (and these are my opinions, of which I am entitled) have taught me that same sex marriage is morally wrong. However, the more rational side of me agrees that there should be some form of civil union or something of that nature. Being an emergency medical provider, I have had to deal with cases of same sex couples who were unable to get information on partners who were receiving medical treatment for example. Those barriers should be dealt with in a civil way.
So, I guess, on the subject of marriage, I'm old fashioned and set in my ways, however, times are changing and we need to address that...and I'm willing to compromise. But, as I said before, our government should be more worried about education, health care and national security than same sex marriage.
Ok, enough of my rambling.
[post=262454]Quoted post[/post]
- jonb,
What about family values, except separating a father from his son because the father lived in Cuba?
And then there's this whole neoconservative agenda: Massive debts, an abandonment of the Bill of Rights, outsourcing our jobs overseas . . .
Strange as it is, in today's world, Nixon or Eisenhower would be a pinko liberal.
OneEyedCat:
Goldwater would have been ejected from the party. He is *still* considered the founder of the modern conservative movement. I'd say they went astray.
"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."
"When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."
"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?"
"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny.
"You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Morris Goldwater
One Eyed Cat
In your heart you know he's right. - Goldwater '64
Goldwater would have been ejected from the party. He is *still* considered the founder of the modern conservative movement. I'd say they went astray.
"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives."
"When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."
"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?"
"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny.
"You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Morris Goldwater
One Eyed Cat
In your heart you know he's right. - Goldwater '64
I'm of the opinion that Bush personally doesn't care much about abortion or gay marriage. He has hinted at times that he knows abortion isn't going away anytime soon and that he thinks gay marriage should be up to the states. He only uses the moral rhetoric as a wedge issue. He publicly supported the anti-marriage amendment and then did nothing to try to get it through Congress. He throws the religious right a few bones here and there because they'll be satisfied with talk and a little action. That doesn't mean there aren't hateful people out there. There are obviously are. But Bush won't help them much.
I'm convinced that the Republican party is mainly an alliance between big business (the money source) and evangelical Christians (the foot soldiers). Bush talks about faith and character, but he doesn't do much with them. Even the abortion-related legislation that he's signed is enacted with the expectation that a court will just strike it down. He can tell the anti-abortion crowd, "Hey, I keep trying, but these activist judges are stopping me!" His actual goals seem to include killing Social Security and more tax cuts for the rich, two goals that are entirely consistent with those of his corporate crony friends. I like to think that eventually the religious folk will realize they're being hoodwinked, but if they haven't figured it out by now.... <_<
I predict that there will be no major movement by the administration on the abortion/gay marriage front during his second term, but lots of action on the "kill the federal government" front. Bush no longer needs the evangelicals to get himself elected anymore. Expect a few table scraps to tide them over just before the 2006 midterm elections and that's about it.
If it's any solace, recent history shows that second-term presidents tend to overreach and get hit with a backlash. Truman and LBJ had unpopular wars. Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton had scandals. Eisenhower had a lot more Cold War troubles in his second administration and people grew tired of him. And except for after Reagan, all of them saw their party kicked out of the White House in the next election.
I'm convinced that the Republican party is mainly an alliance between big business (the money source) and evangelical Christians (the foot soldiers). Bush talks about faith and character, but he doesn't do much with them. Even the abortion-related legislation that he's signed is enacted with the expectation that a court will just strike it down. He can tell the anti-abortion crowd, "Hey, I keep trying, but these activist judges are stopping me!" His actual goals seem to include killing Social Security and more tax cuts for the rich, two goals that are entirely consistent with those of his corporate crony friends. I like to think that eventually the religious folk will realize they're being hoodwinked, but if they haven't figured it out by now.... <_<
I predict that there will be no major movement by the administration on the abortion/gay marriage front during his second term, but lots of action on the "kill the federal government" front. Bush no longer needs the evangelicals to get himself elected anymore. Expect a few table scraps to tide them over just before the 2006 midterm elections and that's about it.
If it's any solace, recent history shows that second-term presidents tend to overreach and get hit with a backlash. Truman and LBJ had unpopular wars. Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton had scandals. Eisenhower had a lot more Cold War troubles in his second administration and people grew tired of him. And except for after Reagan, all of them saw their party kicked out of the White House in the next election.
OneEyedCat:
I like Ike just not the direction of his party. Even back then, he warned of the religious right and the "military industrial complex". I would still argue he was right on the money.
OEC
I like Ike just not the direction of his party. Even back then, he warned of the religious right and the "military industrial complex". I would still argue he was right on the money.
OEC
What pisses me off is the mention of "family values". They introduce tax credits for having children - yet many parents are not even married and have kids they do not want or need. Single people - gay or straight - deserve a break too!
My SO and I have been together since 1966 and while I do not need a marriage license, having him a beneficiary for my social security would be fair.
My SO and I have been together since 1966 and while I do not need a marriage license, having him a beneficiary for my social security would be fair.
On the plus side, Bush will spend eternity in Cocytus, pinned in the ice with his eyes frozen shut.
[post=262970]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Jonb, I positively swoon when you talk over my head (which is frequently, I'm happy to say). So tell me, what is Cocytus??
OEC, the military industrial complex is a dreadful machine, I join you in awaiting it's arrival. I think we are in for far worse than most had imagined.
AllHazzardi
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Jonb, I positively swoon when you talk over my head (which is frequently, I'm happy to say). So tell me, what is Cocytus??
OEC, the military industrial complex is a dreadful machine, I join you in awaiting it's arrival. I think we are in for far worse than most had imagined.
[post=263002]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]River of Hades(one of them, anyway)
Thanks for clearing up the mystery, Allhazzardi- you smart hung guys keep me smiling.......
And, according to Dante, it's so cold in the ninth circle of hell that the only that moves are Satan's wings. But if Dubya is there in the afterlife with eyes that won't open, how is that any different from his present state? Oh, I see the difference: unfortunately his mouth isn't frozen shut yet.
Apparently the freeze started in his brain, is working it's way around to his eyes, which are now just glazed over, and heading none too quickly to his mouth- Oh, what a day that will be...
No, Pecker, not because we don't agree with him- that would be absurd. How about based on mass murder? Thou shalt not kill? How about based on bastardising the name of God to support a war? THAT is true evil, in my humble opinion. No one now looks at the holy wars as if they were a good thing, no one in the future will look at this one as if it was justified either. Those of us who wish to distance ourselves from the vile behavior of bush may feel free to do so, at least until he has limited our civil rights to the point where we can't.
Ultimately, no one can condemn another to hell of course, their own behaviors will determine that. It was an OPINION stated that he was heading there, not that anyone other than himself was sending him there.
Ultimately, no one can condemn another to hell of course, their own behaviors will determine that. It was an OPINION stated that he was heading there, not that anyone other than himself was sending him there.
MisterMark
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gwinea2000:
This remains to be seen. If Iraq is able to create the foundations of a stable govenment within the next, say, 5 years or so, this war will not be frowned upon by future generations. Of course, that's a pretty big 'if'. Now, if we up and left, the situation we'd leave behind could become known as America's greatest failure -- on a par with Vietnam.
As for Bush: I don't think he's evil. Inept? Incompetent? Perhaps -- but not evil. I don't think he kicks back in his chair on Capitol Hill, conversing with his God, delusional with visions of grandeur and world domination (despite the image that the Liberals try to conjure.)
I also don't think his motive for invading Iraq revolved around turning it into a money-making oil machine designed to line the pockets of his corporate cronies.
Was the EXISTENCE of oil in Iraq a prime motivator? Of course. The fact that Iraq is located in teh Middle East was an even bigger motivator. We've long wanted a foothold in the oil-rich haven of the M.E. Until now, we've had to settle for a controversial (and increasingly dangerous) relationship with Israel and a confused and corrupt relationship with the confused and corrupt House of Saud.
These were huge motivations. Others? Well, a fear of looking inactive regarding the 'War on Terror," the fact that Saddam DID hate us and WOULD have funded actions against us, yada yada.
God? His faith may have given him the resolve to carry through with the concepts, but he doesn't claim that God "spoke" to him (as he did Moses, for example) and instructed him to invade Iraq.
In short, I think Bush et al had their reasons. And, as illegitimate as those reasons have been proven to be in the months since invading (such as the WMDs), these were not known at the time. I agree that the inspections should have continued and invasion should have been the LAST resort. I disagreed with our invasion when it happened and still do, but I don't consider him evil. Calling him 'evil' may even give him a bit too much credit.
This remains to be seen. If Iraq is able to create the foundations of a stable govenment within the next, say, 5 years or so, this war will not be frowned upon by future generations. Of course, that's a pretty big 'if'. Now, if we up and left, the situation we'd leave behind could become known as America's greatest failure -- on a par with Vietnam.
As for Bush: I don't think he's evil. Inept? Incompetent? Perhaps -- but not evil. I don't think he kicks back in his chair on Capitol Hill, conversing with his God, delusional with visions of grandeur and world domination (despite the image that the Liberals try to conjure.)
I also don't think his motive for invading Iraq revolved around turning it into a money-making oil machine designed to line the pockets of his corporate cronies.
Was the EXISTENCE of oil in Iraq a prime motivator? Of course. The fact that Iraq is located in teh Middle East was an even bigger motivator. We've long wanted a foothold in the oil-rich haven of the M.E. Until now, we've had to settle for a controversial (and increasingly dangerous) relationship with Israel and a confused and corrupt relationship with the confused and corrupt House of Saud.
These were huge motivations. Others? Well, a fear of looking inactive regarding the 'War on Terror," the fact that Saddam DID hate us and WOULD have funded actions against us, yada yada.
God? His faith may have given him the resolve to carry through with the concepts, but he doesn't claim that God "spoke" to him (as he did Moses, for example) and instructed him to invade Iraq.
In short, I think Bush et al had their reasons. And, as illegitimate as those reasons have been proven to be in the months since invading (such as the WMDs), these were not known at the time. I agree that the inspections should have continued and invasion should have been the LAST resort. I disagreed with our invasion when it happened and still do, but I don't consider him evil. Calling him 'evil' may even give him a bit too much credit.
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