I can't believe there isn't a healthcare thread

[Wyldgusechaz]

Lets see why the government healthcare option won't work:

Medicare is bankrupt. Why would the public option work better?

Americans will not tolerate waiting for their treatment. All forms of socialized medicine ration care at the initial gate.

There are scores of insurance companies now. They compete by offering services and the lowest prices. Don't you think by now if there was a way of curbing healthcare costs, some insurance company would have done it? Don't you think Metlife might have tried to offer a lower premium and take business from Cigna? In America healthcare demand is inelastic.

Americans are fat. We are the fattest country on earth. Shit most of the posters on this site are "husky." Healthcare will be more expensive in a fat country. Why should a thin, in shape person have to pay for a fatso and his high blood pressure and obesity?

Canadians wait 8 months on average for surgery. Is that what you want? Canada has fewer people than California.

Basic healthcare in America means heart stents and artificial knees. Now it even includes obesity surgery. We have a math problem. EVERYONE is going to get sick and die. I have read that we spend $100,000 dollars for each death on final healthcare. 300,000,000 X $100,000 I believe is $300 trillion dollars. 75 years (average lifespan) into $300 trillion is about 4 trillion a year on healthcare. Without inflation. The total gross income of the "rich" is about $500 billion a year. If we confiscated every cent the "rich" earn there would be a 3 trillion deficit. To fund this boondoggle, the middle and lower classes would have to make up the $3 trillion deficit.

No wonder good people are howling. they smell a rat when they see it.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

name one thing the government has done right. have you ever dealt with any branch of the government?
have you ever had to deal with their totally insane way of thinking?
just think of all the stupid things they have done,said and wasted money on and then decide if you really want to put your life in their hands.
you'll be dead before you can even get the paper work filled out.

Biggest issue with "government"? People disassociating themselves so much from their collective autonomy (for lack of a better term) and own governance to refer to it as "they", as opposed to "we".

 

[suprdave]

i'm not expressing anything, i'm just stating they screw everything up, do you watch the news? take a look at all the political threads and simply look at the stupid things they do and say and then put your life in their hands.

look at all the bitchin about the war, government or did bush do that without the governments approval, look at anything then decide.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

name one thing the government has done right. have you ever dealt with any branch of the government?
have you ever had to deal with their totally insane way of thinking?
just think of all the stupid things they have done,said and wasted money on and then decide if you really want to put your life in their hands.
you'll be dead before you can even get the paper work filled out.

i'm not expressing anything, i'm just stating they screw everything up, do you watch the news? take a look at all the political threads and simply look at the stupid things they do and say and then put your life in their hands.

look at all the bitchin about the war, government or did bush do that without the governments approval, look at anything then decide.

You are expressing a clear opinion of "they."
Whom or whatever that may be. :shrug:

 

[suprdave]

ladyshady, i bet you work for the government, if not "they" would love you. same mentallity

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

i'm not expressing anything, i'm just stating they screw everything up, do you watch the news? take a look at all the political threads and simply look at the stupid things they do and say and then put your life in their hands.

I watch the news and I've seen horrible corruption and incompetence in the private sector. When these massive companies get billions in bailout money and then waste it on yachts and exec raises, I find it hard to believe that the government could do worse.

It seems the more big and bloated a corporation gets, the more incapable it gets. Since WWII, the pharmaceutical industry has steadily grown to become the world's second largest manufacturing industry; after the arms industry.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

ladyshady, i bet you work for the government, if not "they" would love you. same mentallity

Darlin', I do not work for our government.
But, good or bad, I am proud to be a "they" (U.S. Citizen, World Citizen, Universian? :09 - you know, all that good shit.

Since WWII, the pharmaceutical industry has steadily grown to become the world's second largest manufacturing industry; after the arms industry.

Good point, Rex!
I am currently reading the '$800 Million Pill' in hopes of gaining a better understanding of the role pharmacological companies play as a special interest group.

 

[deleted15807]

Why should a thin, in shape person have to pay for a fatso and his high blood pressure and obesity?

Why should I have to pay for the fire department when I NEVER call them? I'm careful and my house never caught on fire. If you call the fire department because you smoke in bed pay for them to put the fire out.

Why am I paying for a war I don't approve of? I like Iraqis.

Why am I paying for roads I'll never drive on? I should only have to pay for my road and the roads I use. Let those dumb fucks that live out in the country pay for their own roads.

And the damn police. I never ever call them. Why do I have to pay for them? Let the people that call them pay for them.

And all those damn nukes. Why am I paying for them? I hate nukes.

 

[faceking]

I watch the news and I've seen horrible corruption and incompetence in the private sector. When these massive companies get billions in bailout money and then waste it on yachts and exec raises, I find it hard to believe that the government could do worse.

It seems the more big and bloated a corporation gets, the more incapable it gets. Since WWII, the pharmaceutical industry has steadily grown to become the world's second largest manufacturing industry; after the arms industry.

Huh... you "watch the news" says a lot in the first place. Then you say the private sector is incompetent. If your premise of "massive companies getting bailout money and then spending them on yachts" says MORE ABOUT THE GOVT WHOM BAILS THEM OUT AND LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.. if your sophomoric... no... juvenile premise was even remotely true. then you lambast Big Pharma ... when they are merely the supply for the demand... last I checked... it was instances like horn dogs looking for eternal boners and still paying $50 a pill for that... evil pharma. it's liberal ideology keeping the US and Western world strung up on psycho meds for which 3/4 if not more are fucking lame about facing life... go back to Adult Swim, toke another, and keep the myopia...

 

[faceking]

Pending your state... you pay a shit load for illegals....why are you paying for that? Your paying to educate someone else's kid while you are at it. Pathetic attempt to intermingle infrastructure w/ what Obama will wind up with a welfare program, and claim 'victory' a la 'mission accomplished' upon.

Why should I have to pay for the fire department when I NEVER call them? I'm careful and my house never caught on fire. If you call the fire department because you smoke in bed pay for them to put the fire out.

Why am I paying for a war I don't approve of? I like Iraqis.

Why am I paying for roads I'll never drive on? I should only have to pay for my road and the roads I use. Let those dumb fucks that live out in the country pay for their own roads.

And the damn police. I never ever call them. Why do I have to pay for them? Let the people that call them pay for them.

And all those damn nukes. Why am I paying for them? I hate nukes.

 

[faceking]

Huh... you "watch the news" says a lot in the first place. Then you say the private sector is incompetent. If your premise of "massive companies getting bailout money and then spending them on yachts" says MORE ABOUT THE GOVT WHOM BAILS THEM OUT AND LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.. if your sophomoric... no... juvenile premise was even remotely true. then you lambast Big Pharma ... when they are merely the supply for the demand... last I checked... it was instances like horn dogs looking for eternal boners and still paying $50 a pill for that... evil pharma. it's liberal ideology keeping the US and Western world strung up on psycho meds for which 3/4 if not more are fucking lame about facing life... go back to Adult Swim, toke another, and keep the myopia...

p.s. I'll bet at LEAST 40% of the LPSG Politics board of heavy contributors are on (or have been in the frequent past) on psycho meds... I'll FUNKING TAKE THAT TO THE BANK.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

p.s. I'll bet at LEAST 40% of the LPSG Politics board of heavy contributors are on (or have been in the frequent past) on psycho meds... I'll FUNKING TAKE THAT TO THE BANK.

Entirely irrelevant to the discussion and that's speaking as someone with an anti-psychological meds viewpoint.

 

[Cowabanga]

"A Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican"

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.
All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.
Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.
Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.
Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.
Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, "We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have".


by Tom Hartman

​

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Huh... you "watch the news" says a lot in the first place. Then you say the private sector is incompetent. If your premise of "massive companies getting bailout money and then spending them on yachts" says MORE ABOUT THE GOVT WHOM BAILS THEM OUT AND LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.. if your sophomoric... no... juvenile premise was even remotely true. then you lambast Big Pharma ... when they are merely the supply for the demand... last I checked... it was instances like horn dogs looking for eternal boners and still paying $50 a pill for that... evil pharma. it's liberal ideology keeping the US and Western world strung up on psycho meds for which 3/4 if not more are fucking lame about facing life... go back to Adult Swim, toke another, and keep the myopia...

Rant much? You inferred quite a bit from my post. Firstly, I never made any of these claims in my post. Maybe you were reading someone else's in your stupor?

I never claimed that the private sector was incompetent. I claimed that big business was incompetent.

I never claimed that the government was any better. I said that it wasn't any worse; there's a difference. Besides, "social healthcare" is not necessarily the same as "government-run healthcare". It's possible for social healthcare to have nothing to do with the government.

If you wanna get real, it's liberal countries with liberal governments that have the healthiest people. This is inarguable.

Your beloved Bush administration decided to give out $1 billion to failing, mismanaged, corrupt companies. I'm sure that we all hoped that those companies would put that money to good use--or even refuse it (as Ford did). The fact that they didn't spend it wisely (which I'm surprised that a Capitalista like you admitted to) isn't necessarily an indictment of the government. It was another Bonehead Bush experiment gone wrong.

PS. I'm not on any meds except low-dose aspirin.

PPS. You are a classic example of somebody with means who doesn't want social healthcare because you can already afford your own private plan. There are millions of Americans who can't afford $400/mo.

PPPS. Are you the one who is hiring all of those loud, fat, old people to cause fights in the town halls?

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

"A Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican"

*Snip*
​

Also irrelevant.
Healthcare is not a Republican v Democrat, or Liberal v Conservative issue.
While it is nice to see it in such familiar, opposing views. I believe it goes deeper to the heart of the social contract and independence versus interdependence. I could be wrong. :shrug:

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Yes i dont believe this is a conservative issue for me. Im for small gov't. I work for myself because i dont want anyone telling me what to do. I can also have more control over my success. I pay higher taxes for it and wouldnt trade it in for the world.

I could easily move to a remote area and be without a lot of luxuries if it meant they would stay out of my life. I dont want them running anything for me, behalf of me, etc.

I dont want them saying anything about my income, my groceries, my healthcare or my retirement. When people pay for your stuff- they automatically have strings attached to you at that point. I dont want to pay them anymore than i have to. And if youre not paying for your healthcare someone else is. Usually that falls on my income class' shoulders. And if im going to be footing some of your bills, i should have a say so.

Also, my disgression on this topic is that i dont believe a single word most politicians (on either party) have to say because they speak a bunch of bullshit to sustain voters. The quickest way to get people on your side- PROMISE THEM SHIT EVEN IF YOU CANT MAKE IT HAPPEN.

I also have no problems with paying taxes if they are reasonable. I want to be independently wealthy, so would most people. I have no qualms with people making a great living. Democrats and Republicans both like to be wealthy and successful. I dont want anyone telling me how i CANT do it. Period.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

I dont want them saying anything about my income, my groceries, my healthcare or my retirement. When people pay for your stuff- they automatically have strings attached to you at that point. I dont want to pay them anymore than i have to. And if youre not paying for your healthcare someone else is. Usually that falls on my income class' shoulders. And if im going to be footing some of your bills, i should have a say so.

Who are them?

I also have no problems with paying taxes if they are reasonable. I want to be independently wealthy, so would most people. I have no qualms with people making a great living. Democrats and Republicans both like to be wealthy and successful. I dont want anyone telling me how i CANT do it. Period.

Other than some, perhaps fringe, individual opinion that may be anti-personal wealth, where does this exist?

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Who are them?


Other than some, perhaps fringe, individual opinion that may be anti-personal wealth, where does this exist?

Them=Gov't

Gov't= The people we send to office

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

Them=Gov't

Gov't= The people we send to office

Since our government is of the people, are you not "them" and "them" not you?

 

[vince]

Canadians wait 8 months on average for surgery. Is that what you want? Canada has fewer people than California.

Bullshit.

My personal experience was not that. I waited 17 hours in North Vancouver, Canada, from being told I had an intestinal tumor, until the surgery. In my circle of friends and family I can't remember anyone having to wait very long for major surgery. One guy waited three days for a heart by-pass. My father-in-law waited a couple days to have his spinal fusion surgery. My ex-boss had to wait a week for gall bladder surgery.

The out-of-pocket expenses for all of the above was zero.

There are NO wait times for emergency surgeries in Canada. The waiting time for an appointment to see your GP is virtually non-existant and is less than in the USA.

Deborah Burger: Ugly Health Care Waiting Times? Look at the U.S

Speaking to the Aetna Investor's Conference 2007, Troy Brennan let these nuggets drop:

• The U.S. "healthcare system is not timely."
• Recent statistics from the Institution of Healthcare Improvement document "that people are waiting an average of about 70 days to see a provider."
• "In many circumstances people initially diagnosed with cancer are waiting over a month, which is intolerable."
• In his former stint as an administrator and head of a physicians' organization he spent much of his time trying "to find appointments for people with doctors."

Statistics Canada's latest figures show that median wait times for elective surgery in Canada is now three weeks -- that's less time than Aetna's chief medical officer says Americans typically wait after being diagnosed with cancer.

Canada also has no waits for emergency surgeries. It also doesn't have 44 million people who are uninsured because everyone has a national healthcare card guaranteeing health care from any doctor or hospital they choose. And it doesn't burden those with insurance with rising deductibles or co-pays.

Canada also surpasses the U.S. in a broad array of health barometers, including life expectancy, infant mortality rates, adult mortality rates, deaths due to HIV/AIDS, mortality rates for cardiovascular diseases, and years of life lost to injuries and communicable diseases, according to data from the World Health Organization and the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development.
No wonder some people are so afraid we'll learn the real comparative story about Canada's system -- and our own.